The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: sokel on January 03, 2015, 10:54:41 am
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I am so upset and ready to kill someone >:(
Yesterday afternoon while we where out the local shoot where in the field next to us.
One of the sons of The Lord high and mighty was shooting over the top of the house and goat sheds.
There was one person at home and apparently 4 pheasants ended in the garden and one on top of the goat she that has the Perspex roof. The prat then decided to climb up to retrieve the pheasant ! Resulting in him going through the roof. This resulted in 3 very stressed goats. One of our BSs was the worst and couldn't stop shaking. She then collapsed and died before the vet could get here.
Spent the morning chasing the estate up to get repairs done etc.
Anyone any ideas on the legality of them coming onto our land to retrieve fallen birds ? Also where we stand for the loss of one of our best milking goats that was in kid :(
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Oh so sorry to hear that :hug: poor goatie and her baby. Some people have no respect for beast nor man. Respect to you for keeping yourself from puching his lights out ! Would think there would be some compensation for your loss and damage. Wont take away the upset though :( Hope someone can give you some advice on here :fc:
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That's absolutely awful. Surely not legal either!! Not that that would make up for your loss. :hug:
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Oh, that's terrible. :hug:
Hopefully, when you tell the idiot what has happened, they will offer some recompense. And think twice another time.
I don't know, but I'd think that if you own your land then they'd need permission to come onto your property, but the permission may be implied unless you state that you expressly do *not* give them permission. Which, given what's happened, you may well decide to do. (And then you'd need to check whether any pheasant shot by them but falling onto your land were legally yours.. ;))
What they can or cannot do if they have reason to suspect that a fallen bird is not dead, I am not sure - but it sounds as though there was someone at home in this case, so all they needed to do was knock on the door and ask...
What a horrible start to the New Year for you. :hug: I hope that's your bad luck for the year done and dusted, and the rest of the year will be a good one.
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When working out the replacement cost of your BS make sure you include evidence of the actual cost of an in-kid nanny. The words "trespass" and "criminal damage" also spring to mind.
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No idea about the legal position but I'm really sorry to hear what happened. :hug:
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Would it be worth a phone call to local police? As said before, definitely trespass and criminal damage...... Awful thing to happen, some people are beyond stupid.
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They must not come on to your land without to permission to collect fallen game. That is trespass, however that is not a police matter, that is something you would need to pursue through the county court.
Criminal damage is something the police could look at depending on the full details.
At the very least you need to write to the other parties (organiser and individual) with details of your losses and your recompense settlement. It may be they have insurance to cover such issues.
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Hi there first post on this forum so here goes
From what sokel has written ( trying to get the estate to repair the goat shed roof) it would appear that your property is part of the estate, and if so their will be something in the rental aggrement that allows them to come on to your land in just this situation.
Only yourself and the estate know the terms and conditions of your rental or sale. However a potential serious and possible fatal accident occurred at your goat shed. This should be reported to the HSE and they will investigate the only downside to this is, if you are the owner of the property and did not have warning signs clearly displayed that it was a fragile roof ( there have been cases where thiefs have fallen through fragile roofs and were successful in suing the owners of the property for injuries because the owner did not display fragile roof warning signs). Only you can make the decision as you have all the details and information. This incident has the potential to cause upset between yourself and the estate owners. No mention is made if the shooter came on to your area of land with a firearm, if this were the case there is the potential for the owners of the firearms to loose their guns and be prosecuted.
Good luck
Smudge.casper
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I am no expert but having lived on an estate that had shooting I was always lead to believe they were not allowed to shoot over private land ie next to us they were entitled to shoot with their backs to our land shooting into the estate. I would report to the police just for an official record and then persue in writting to everyone involved.
I am so sorry for your goat - it must have been terrified, I cannot imagine how you are feeling - gutted and fuming to say the least - nothing will bring her back but make sure the people responsible learn their lesson. :hug:
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Well first we spoke to a friend who is a retired solicitor. He has looked into it and as the land is ours they have no legal right to come onto our land. Any fallen Birds that land on our land even if they are shot on the estate land automatically belong to the owner of the land they fall on.(us in this case)
They broke the law by shooting over our house and land and they also broke the law by coming onto our land with a shotgun in his hand.
Apparently they can not come onto the land or even send a dog to retrieve them.
We then phoned the estate and when told we now have a dead goat the pompus Pr**k said ohh dear at least it was just a goat >:(
he then said we have to send them the bill for loss of goat and also for disposal and the estate are repairing the roof.
Anyone know what sort of price a 4 year old BS who is registered and won at shows, In kid to a registered Billy would cost if you went to buy one :-\
roll on 2016 !!!
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that was my thoughts too Brucklay, you can only shoot 'over' your own land not 'off' land which at times I find annoying as I am sure the hoodie crows know this piece of legislation!
Sokel, you must be devastated and raging, I would be, infact I am :rant:
I would certainly be making a call to the police!
and there's no such thing as 'just a goat'.....what a w****r
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Sorry to hear Sokel, dreadful, dreadful thing to happen. I think it feels worse when they are pregnant too.
Anyone know what sort of price a 4 year old BS who is registered and won at shows, In kid to a registered Billy would cost if you went to buy one :-\
roll on 2016 !!!
How many kids did she have at her last kidding? And was she scanned this year? I would say, a minimum of £300 for her (maybe more if she has any BrCh or Ch parents), and £150 for each of the kids. Base the number of kids either on how many she was scanned with, or how many she had the last time she kidded (and if she only had 1 kid last time, increase that to 2 kids).
Beth
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Don't accept any payment until you have proper legal advice .... you could be able to claim for more than 'just the goat' and repairs to roof ........... trespass causing criminal damage and stress to stock and you, should incur compensation well in excess of goat value . Accept anything now will invalidate further action( and the big wigs will know that!)
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I would have thought shooting over someone's land is a criminal offence - with possible serious consequences . I would certainly complain to the police about this - what would have happened if you were in the line!
As to the death of a goat as a consequence of the stress caused it is more difficult to go through anything other than the civil courts. Pedigree & registered goats in their prime would probably be about 500 pounds to replace, I personally would value any kid (that can be registered) in the region of 200 pounds EACH, male kids could be higher if exceptional. I would contact your insurance company, the estate should also have third party/public liability. But they may not want to go through their insurer, as it would then transpire that a) they shot over someone else's land and b) they entered someone else's land and property illegally (actually going into/onto your shed would be a criminal offence in my opinion, this is more than trespass!)
But I have had similar experiences of the hunting hounds jumping our fences and then someone from the hunt just jumping into our field to retrieve the dog... and yesterday the local farmer was having his friends around for his annual pheasant shoot too, but fortunately a bit further away from the just-in-lamb ewes. They were still quite stressed and all bunched up though...
If the goat was shaking I would have given her a drench of Calciject, as she would probably have had something like transit tetany? I have had to do this to one of mine recently when she was shaking and very stressed on arrival at a show.
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What an awful thing to happen :o you are right to be fuming!
I'm only just about finding out about shooting and hunting 'conventions' myself...
I hope you get it sorted in a manner deserving of the damage and the loss of your precious goat :hug:
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So sorry :(
I would be out for blood over these. What arrogant <bleeps>
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Thanks for the replys. Yes she is from Champ parents and she herself had several wins as a kid/goatling
She has kidded as a 2 yr old and a 3 yr old twin girls both times.
He was a right d**k head until we said we had had legal advice and started quoting everything they had broke the law with.
Keeping a very close eye on the other 2 that where in there. Milk had dropped quite a bit today overall from all of the ones milking :-\
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Graham, I am so sorry that you had to experience this horror. I hope that the idiots responsible do learn their lesson and I hope that you get as much as you can from them. People like this only understand the value of money.
If they have broken law by entering your land with a firearm then they certainly need reporting to the police. They should also be paying, not only for the goat and potential kids, but the cost of the vet if he/she attended. And for your distress - not that there's any amount can make up for that. I would also want recompense for the loss of milk. Of course your poor girls are upset and it's bound to affect their yield.
Most of all, I hope that you can be at peace about it all, in time. :hug:
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Really sorry to hear this. People are so ignorant and inconsiderate. Definitely take the advice given to speak to. Solicitor before having any more conversations. You only need to say something they can twist and they will use it to get out of paying. Best of luck and hope all your other goats are okay.
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What a horrible upset for everyone, it's not about money, the relationship built up with your animals is an important aspect of your life and lifestyle. As well as taking care of everything else take care of yourself as well, you're probably still in shock. Are you a member of the NFU? There should also be a 'Rural' police officer allocated to your area whom you should be able to contact. :hug:
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OMG. I'm so sorry for your loss
It's hard enough to lose a goat, never mind in circumstances like that!! You did well keeping your cool.
Make them pay... and not jusy monetarily. See about an injunction to stop them shooting/hunting by your land...soo sorry :hug:
:rant:
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I know there are many who liken them to chocolate fire guards but maybe worth contacting RSPCA ? So glad we don't have any 'sportsmen' like that here. I can't begin to imagine how you feel but I'm with others about 'looking after yourself' too.
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It was always drummed into us as children with our first air rifles "NEVER SHOOT THROUGH A HEDGE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE!!" and we certainly wouldn't have shot over a neighbours land without permission.
Send them a copy of the BASC for safe shooting.
Also, anyone with half a wit would guess that a perspex roof would be unsafe ::) ::)
Go get them, you have right (and all of us) on your side :hug: :hug:
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Thanks for the replys
We where at the estate office yesterday and told them what the goat was worth to us and that we had lost our best milker. We also pointed out everything they had broken the law by doing and the stress this has caused both the other goats and us.
They agreed to pay and will not be putting it through the insurance ::) they have also agreed to keep well away from our property when shooting in the future and will inform us in advance if they are shooting in that area
I still find it very upsetting to have lost Enya and it's horrible to see her pen empty
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:hug: Unfortunately nothing can undo the loss and bring Enya back. :bouquet:
But thank goodness they seem to have got the message and will keep well away from your premises in future.
You have handled the situation with great restraint and dignity. Hats off to you.
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I'm glad that they are being reasonable about recompensing you and that they will keep away from your property now. Not that any of that will bring Enya back and I feel for your loss. No one understands what it's like to lose a special goat (or any other anumal) unless they've been in the same position :hug: :bouquet:
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Glad you have a reasonable settlement. The money will never compensate for your loss but keeping the hunt well away from your property and getting prior warning sounds a more worthwhile agreement. I agree with Sally, you have handled it much more restrained than I would have :thumbsup:
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Very sorry about your loss of Enya - but glad that the Estate are going to go some way to paying compensation.
I'm not surprised they aren't going through their insurance, most probably because their insurance wouldn't payout considering several laws were broken in the pursuance of the damage.
:bouquet:
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Agree with the others, it's not going to recompense you for losing Enya. But keeping them clear of your property in the future is the best thing to come out of this.
Hope the shed is fixed now for the others btw.
Beth
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Well done for being able to handle the situation in such a measured and reasonable fashion. Your effort has clearly been rewarded with what seems like an acceptable settlement. And hopefully the shooters are well warned and will behave responsibly in the future. Not many could have achieved such a result. :bouquet:
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How awful. I just cant believe how irresponsible and stupid people can be.
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As a girl I was riding past the Lyle's (of Tate and Lyle's) estate when "Pewegwine" the chinless wonder shot through the hedge into the road, missed me but my pony bolted. My Dad had something to say, I can tell you!! I received an apology and a box of chocolates and that gormless little swine leaned his lesson.
I'm never sure whether it's ignorance or arrogance that makes people do these things. If ignorance it can, maybe, be forgiven as long as they learn from it, if arrogance? well we all know the saying "You can't educate pork!!"