The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: FiB on November 02, 2014, 10:16:37 am
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Well 2 out of 7 back from butcher and quite a lot of fat....(his comments were that they could have come 2 or 3 weeks earlier.... But they still looked like that had a bit of growing to do to me) . I've been doing 1.5 Kg hard food per pig per day as the max split between 2 feeds. They have had free range of about 1.5 acres. 2 questions, what does anyone suggest for next time if there is a next time, secondly it's a week till the rest go.... Is there any likely benefit of cutting back in this last week (putting them on a bit of a diet) ? Many thanks, fi
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How old? I don't consider my GOS fully grown, i.e. adult size, until they're two years old. For porkers they need enough frame to support the meat, so 16% protein should serve both purposes. I prefer to feed to time rather than weight - a better reflection of how ravenous they are. So many things can influence feed intake, including how much time they spend foraging, how cold or wet the weather is, etc. Mine polish off their feed in ten minutes prior to slaughter.
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What do you mean with "quite a lot"? That means something different to everyone :) What is your benchmark?
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I am not the most experienced pig-rearer on here, but I'll share my experience.
I have been told to halve the feed in the last fortnight and that you can take up to 1cm of fat off by doing this. I do usually cut down a little for the last two weeks and I do think I can see a difference. However, with free range pigs, being a softie, I wouldn't cut the food by much when the weather has just turned colder! ;)
I haven't ever fed any of my traditional-type pigs as much as 6lbs hard feed a day, not even in winter; most seem to be getting plenty with 4lbs, perhaps 5lbs for bigger, fast-growing types like Saddlebacks, or in the depths of winter.
So my regime is up to 4lbs/pig/day, higher protein up to 4 months then onto a sow roll / lower protein but staying on 4lbs. Fresh veg etc when available, and free-ranging with roots and stuff to go at. Cut down by 1lb/pig/day for the last couple of weeks but make sure they have plenty of straw to play with / keep them warm.
That said, my Large Blacks I did find to be very slow-growing, and they maybe would have grown faster with more of a higher protein ration for longer. They did not have such good conformation - less eye in the bacon, etc - as some of the other breeds but oh my goodness the flavour more than compensates. :yum: The best sausages we've had from any of our pigs, and the butcher swears he made them the same as he always does.
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FiB, no help from me sorry but interested in thread. If it is any consolation a LB we had came back with 45mm of back fat :sofa:
That said it was 10 months old and a 118kg carcass - delicious bacon and only for us so we didn't really mind :hug:
Our last two weaners were Berkshires, only kept until 6/7 months old and then away they went. We held back on pellets and fed up with carrots - I was lead to believe these are more of a filler as opposed to fattener. They were better. My feelings are high protein pellets and rare breeds aren't made for each other so it's always gong to be a bit of an up hill struggle but when its works I think the trials and tribulations are worth it :trophy:
My aim for the next visitors is more slow grown as opposed to high protein pellet feed and quick growth achieved with commercial types. (My thought's only and how to achieve this has yet to be decided!)
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That is all really interesting and good food for thought...... So converting to LB ours have been getting no more than 3.5 pound of hard food a day..... Maybe some are getting more than there fair share, they are a mixed age group (wouldn't do that again). I shall cut down on hard feed this week then and up the belly fillers. On the plus side the sausages from the first 2 are out of this world! As we are having to go off plan and kill all the rest at once ..... We are going to have the best 2 straight cut (family and friends), big pig (who is enormous at 8-9 months old) for bacon ham and sausages and the other 2 prime cuts taken out loin, cubed leg, and the rest mince and sausages. That we we have a hope of freezing it until various neighbours friends want some. Ah well they have done their main job of clearing a mountainside 'field' prior to woodland planting :-).
Another learning this time is that a group of 7 became quite feral.... It wasn't long before I didn't dare go in to feed them without some distraction first! They had me over once in their enthusiasm. I would have them again, but smaller group.
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I had the same problem with the all black so changed to the Kune-Kune. although slower growing they still cost less to rear and the meat is lovely.
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What do you mean with "quite a lot"? That means something different to everyone :) What is your benchmark?
It was more the butchers face..... A good inch on some chops (and some wern't that big as Sally said, so the fat looked out of proportion). I also don't mind fat, but needing to sell some halves this time, not going to be v popular......
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you learn through experience.
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1" is 25mm... :o Our butcher frowns on more than 12mm fat, although accepts that traditional pig is bound to be a little fatter.
My Saddleback x OSB that I sent off at just short of 6 months, liveweight 72kgs, deadweight just under 55kgs, had a 'probe' value of 17mm. The butcher was impressed with that pig, and said if I could produce them like that routinely, but just a little larger, then he would buy them off me.
I know other folks who rear traditionals for sale, and butch at 5-6 months, so that may be the key - get a breed or cross that will finish well enough by 6 months, then they don't get too fatty.
As for feeding a pack of growers... we've got a setup now where I can put the food out and then open the gate ;)
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Large black lay down fat for fun. The problem is more likely what you are feeding not how much.
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Large black lay down fat for fun. The problem is more likely what you are feeding not how much.
Ha!
Would like to do better next time... Any suggestions ? I felt a bit constrained by what I could get locally - wynnstay (mostly) is it the % protein you would play around with or would you be looking at non pellet alternative? I think next time I need to keep better count of the weeks and not just go by eye! They have been brill and I would go large black again :-)
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Our pigs have more than 1 inch of back fat, if they hadn't we couldn't make salamis out of them. But we don't need to make money out of our pigs, we do sell a few to cover costs but that's to likeminded fat loving people.
Normally butchers don't want pork that is as lean as supermarket pork, though, our butcher complains that his producer delivers the pigs too skinny!
MKay, please elaborate, what would be the difference in your feeding regime? I'd like to try large blacks next year for bacon and hams (so far we've only had GOS) so the LBs won't need the back fat. :)
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Not worth feeding native breeds more than 16% protein feed. Higher is for commercial types that are slaughtered at 16-18 weeks.
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Consider the lard though! I aim for a few months worth from my pigs :yum:
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I would say about 10% of our customers like their pork on the fatty side but even they want it marbled through the meat and not a dirty great slab of fat on the back of their chops. The majority want leaner meat but most expect a bit more fat than supermarket pork. Fat covering on a pig is entirely down to feeding and nothing to do with breed. It's a lame excuse to say it's normal to have a big fat covering because it's a traditional breed, you've fed them too much. And if you have to trim an inch of fat off your chops etc you've very likely spent money on feed to produce waste which is going in the bin.
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I would say about 10% of our customers like their pork on the fatty side but even they want it marbled through the meat and not a dirty great slab of fat on the back of their chops. The majority want leaner meat but most expect a bit more fat than supermarket pork. Fat covering on a pig is entirely down to feeding and nothing to do with breed. It's a lame excuse to say it's normal to have a big fat covering because it's a traditional breed, you've fed them too much. And if you have to trim an inch of fat off your chops etc you've very likely spent money on feed to produce waste which is going in the bin.
Yep. But I am struggling to find out what the right amount is..... They clear their trough in about. 5 mins, have 1.5 kg per pig per day and act like starving monsters........ Too late for this lot but always seeking to learn form mistakes.... I'll report back next week when I get the rest back. It may be that I had some guzzlers that were eating more than their fair share. Cheapest pigs yet anyway :-)
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I would say about 10% of our customers like their pork on the fatty side but even they want it marbled through the meat and not a dirty great slab of fat on the back of their chops. The majority want leaner meat but most expect a bit more fat than supermarket pork. Fat covering on a pig is entirely down to feeding and nothing to do with breed. It's a lame excuse to say it's normal to have a big fat covering because it's a traditional breed, you've fed them too much. And if you have to trim an inch of fat off your chops etc you've very likely spent money on feed to produce waste which is going in the bin.
In the bin, my boy, in the bin!!!! Render it down in a moderate oven and, if you like, render it further and you will have the loveliest lard for frying, pastry making etc. and the dogs will love the "scritchins) :thumbsup:
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Devonlady I don't need to make lard as my Saddlebacks don't carry too much fat. I wouldn't have the time or the facilities to do it anyway. Nor would the effort and time involved be financially worth it but that's another subject entitrely ;D
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Weaners and growers should act as though they're starving - ask any mother of a teenage boy whether they turn up their nose at food! When they're weaned I expect them to clear their feed in 20 minutes, reducing gradually to ten minutes before slaughter.
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In the bin, my boy, in the bin!!!! Render it down in a moderate oven and, if you like, render it further and you will have the loveliest lard for frying, pastry making etc. and the dogs will love the "scritchins) :thumbsup:
do you not have dogs? try making some soap, or feed it to the wildbirds.
in my opinion the best way to finish your pigs is to feed by eye and feel their bodies. feeding by weight only will give variable results as pigs, individuals, weather, environments are all so different.
you should be able to feel their ribs and spines to a certain degree and its then not difficult to judge how much fat is covering them. if you cant feel them at all then you've fed far too much.
with a mixed bunch of 7, you will need to feed different amounts but this can be done if you can feed them all the basic ration, then bring those needing extra individually through a gateway/into a trailer for more feed. we spread the feed widely over the ground and trained them to come to call/bucket so we could manipulate the ones we needed into position. it takes time but its worth it. handling is easier if they are used to it from a young age.
have you thought about butchering your own pig occasionally, just ask for the carcuss to be split and collect it yourself from abattoir. you learn so much about fat dispersal this way.
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I totally agree about feeding based on the pigs condition. I'm feeling mine and assessing their condition from not long after they're weaned and adjust the feed amount accordingly. in a group of pigs there will always be the ones that get more than their fair share but they are usually the biggest and the first to go so haven't had a chance to convert their food into fat. The smaller ones in the group soon catch up once the greedy ones have gone. I want to be easily able to feel the backbone and ribs as it's much easier to put a bit more weight on than to take it off. Plus with the price of feed who wants to be feeding too much anyway?
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Have today collected my two large blacks from the abattoir. For the past couple of months they have been getting approximately 3 pounds of sow rolls per day each together with a small round washing up bowl full of windfall apples. I was advised after last years pigs had two inches of back fat to cut down their rations and to give a lower protein feed. The current pigs came back with one inch of back fat and I am delighted with them.
They are butchered by a friend in the village who used to be a butcher by profession. He was of the opinion that the smaller of the two pigs would be acceptable to a high street butcher but not to a supermarket where any fat is a no no. (And presumably any hint of taste!) The larger of the two pigs was oversize for commercial pork but that's the size we intentionally take them to as we make our own bacon. We would take them larger but the abattoir has a maximum size of 100kg live weight.
Regards, David
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Dropped our first batch of LBs off at the abattoir this morning, getting nervous now!
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If you keep an eye on the pigs condition throughout their growing period and feed accordingly there won't be any surprises when they come back from the abattoir. If you're producing to sell the meat you need to be in control of what you're producing. Unless of course you're turning the whole lot into sausages ;D .
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If you look up my post last year on mixing pig feed. Might have to search for the ingredients but shouldn't take more than a few phone calls.
Also take away their ark. Just give them a round bale of hay(cheap bale of last years hay) to nest in. They will use the excess energy to stay warm rather than laying down fat.
Mine do just fine in the Scottish highlands without arks. They just come in the steading for Dec-march and farrowing.
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If you look up my post last year on mixing pig feed. Might have to search for the ingredients but shouldn't take more than a few phone calls.
Also take away their ark. Just give them a round bale of hay(cheap bale of last years hay) to nest in. They will use the excess energy to stay warm rather than laying down fat.
Mine do just fine in the Scottish highlands without arks. They just come in the steading for Dec-march and farrowing.
Mmmmmm tricky ;D But we have not replenished their straw (the ground is super dry ) so may have a bit of that effect. Thanks all, they've been on half rations and extra carrots and apples this week. Going on Friday so fingers crossed.
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I always feed by eye depending on what they're looking like. My first attempt at fattening this year (Saddleback boars) turned out really well. I fed them equal amounts of nuts, rolled oats and rolled barley topped up with sugarbeet and they finished up at about 75-80kg liveweight at 6 months old with hardly any fat on them at all. I was surprised because I'd been told by a local farmer that they're a fatty breed.
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just a reminder that if you mix your own feeds, then you need a license...... ::) of course im sure you meant you put different grains in different troughs... :innocent:
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Sasha the Saddleback is only a fat pig if it's fed too much just like any other.
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just a reminder that if you mix your own feeds, then you need a license...... ::) of course im sure you meant you put different grains in different troughs... :innocent:
They're all kept in separate bins and I just scoop them into the bucket to take them in and I feed on the floor - surely I don't need a licence to do that?
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Hello,
First time replier. Long time LB lover! I breed purely LB's and we had the same problems when we started. They are good doers for sure. I abide by the 20 minute rule and feed an Allen and Page rare breed feed (pricey!). Nowadays we have really consistent fat levels. I think it is as much about getting your eye in as it is changing feeds etc. Mine go at 5-6 months and I watch them like hawks for the last couple. If you are grazing them or they have good rooting it will go a surprisingly long way! Definitely bring the protein levels down if possible. Remember that non traditional breeds are sometimes expected to make weight in half the time.