The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: lou13 on October 24, 2014, 10:03:39 pm
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Hello,
I've got a hampshire down tup lamb to bring on for showing next year as a shearling. Rather than just feeding the usual coarse mix does any one have any recommendations on what they feed to bring them on over winter. I haven't shown him this summer so he hasn't at all been pushed and just been on grass.
Some ones told me to add lime flour and seaweed to his food but someone else said not to bother.
Thanks!
lou13
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If he has been on just grass and not pushed over the summer, I wouldn't give him any feed during the winter either, he is growing but not being used as a ram so his energybrequirements aren't huge.
If grass quality drops real low or its frosty/snowy you could give him some hay and make sure he has a mineral lick
My ram lambs don't get anything unless its real deep snow or snow that they can't dig through, plus I am using one as a tup right now, he should recover by next year and if he doesnt well then he is no good!
If you really want to feed him I'm not sure what to suggest but there will be others along to suggest feeds to you :thumbsup:
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Well if you don't want to feed a mix, what about cabbages? That's the traditional winter feed for tups around here. And turnips for the girls.
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If you want to stand a chance in the show ring you really need to push a lamb from birth with the best of every thing , but the genetics need to be their in the first place . You don't say how old the lamb is , hopefully spring born off good grass 60kg ?? there are specialist ram feeds or lamb fattening pellets , soaked beet pulp , very good leafy grass , the best hay , yes chopped turnips /swedes /cabbage all good , regular min vit drench or boluses and all worm /fluke /heptavac up to date . To keep fleece /skin / body / bones as good as you can he requires no set backs and must always be improving
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lf all you want to use him for is showing then the show boys generally feed them for the first six months and again for the three months prior to showing, shearing in January so the fleece has time to grow and hide faults and/or make the conformation look better. If you want him to have a long and productive life don't feed him anything other than the aforementioned hay in a bad winter.
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Eblex have useful manual on managing tups for longevity. However as said by shep53 & marchesfarmer you will need to feed over the winter for showing. You'll need a mix or pellet especially for tups to try & prevent gravel.(That's "stones" in the bladder that move down & block the urethra so he cant pee)
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Thanks for all the replies! :thumbsup: he was born in december 2013 and at the moment is about 80 kg. I'll have to try ordering in some special tup feed, as our local farmway doesn't sell any.
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Hello,
I've got a hampshire down tup lamb to bring on for showing next year as a shearling. Rather than just feeding the usual coarse mix does any one have any recommendations on what they feed to bring them on over winter. I haven't shown him this summer so he hasn't at all been pushed and just been on grass.
Some ones told me to add lime flour and seaweed to his food but someone else said not to bother.
Thanks!
lou13
for showing...have them well wormed and dosed, with my show rams an lambs i normally feed coarse meal along with sugar beet pulp and cabbage (only give cabbage 2 weeks before a show)....sugar beet pulp i found well with the suffolks anyway..they go mad for it an puts the weight on them like something serious. this is just things i have picked up from fellow breeders an my jan 2014 lambs sold in july an were weighing 125kg
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my show rams an lambs i normally feed coarse meal along with sugar beet pulp and cabbage (only give cabbage 2 weeks before a show)....sugar beet pulp i found well with the suffolks anyway..they go mad for it an puts the weight on them like something serious. this is just things i have picked up from fellow breeders an my jan 2014 lambs sold in july an were weighing 125kg
I'm intrigued as I have a source of very cheap cabbage! why only 2 weeks before a show please?
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my show rams an lambs i normally feed coarse meal along with sugar beet pulp and cabbage (only give cabbage 2 weeks before a show)....sugar beet pulp i found well with the suffolks anyway..they go mad for it an puts the weight on them like something serious. this is just things i have picked up from fellow breeders an my jan 2014 lambs sold in july an were weighing 125kg
I'm intrigued as I have a source of very cheap cabbage! why only 2 weeks before a show please?
i was always told 2/3 weeks before as they will take in less water and will eat more..could be all a wives tale but thats what i was always told and what i have always been doing. i no ones that start the cabbage 6/8 weeks before...depends how much weight you want on them...
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I have way too many cabbages, how many can you feed at once?
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show people feed cabbages just before a show/sale as cabbages cause the animal to retain water and it swells them slightly, specially the head, so people buying an animal purely on looks that has been stuffed full of food before hand will love the swollen affect and bid on it.....
of course after buying it the swelling goes down and then as the feeding regime is dropped or not pushed so hard the animal may melt away slightly or completely if put on just grass... but all that matters is what it looks like on the day ::)
I wouldnt push your lamb so hard as that if I were you but if you just want it to look good then its your lamb and im sure it would do well at the shows :)
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Thanks ladygrey re last post. I know nothing about feeding for showing so it's all new to me ;D . So feeding my cheap (free!) cabbage in small quantities won't do any harm :relief: . Some of the sheep love cabbage, other ignore it :P .
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No problem :)
Yep in small quantities I believe cabbage as a feed is fine :thumbsup: I just wouldnt feed to the amount when he slows down drinking due to his body retaining all the fluid
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show people feed cabbages just before a show/sale as cabbages cause the animal to retain water and it swells them slightly, specially the head, so people buying an animal purely on looks that has been stuffed full of food before hand will love the swollen affect and bid on it.....
of course after buying it the swelling goes down and then as the feeding regime is dropped or not pushed so hard the animal may melt away slightly or completely if put on just grass... but all that matters is what it looks like on the day ::)
I wouldnt push your lamb so hard as that if I were you but if you just want it to look good then its your lamb and im sure it would do well at the shows :)
ive had no complaints on my lambs, never had one say that they lost weight when i sold them, cause we always read up on where our tup lambs have went...we dont push them they are all on rationed feed and live on grass the rest of the time...
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sorry I wasnt saying that you did push them!
although 125kilo at 6 months has surely got to take some good feeding? I knew suffolks grew on fast but I didnt know that fast! how much does the suffolk ewe weigh?
I know of many people who really do push the lambs/rams hard, feeding them things they shouldnt in huge amounts :o just to get the top prizes at the show, which is sad
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Ok so, I must admit I don't show or feed (more than the barest of bare minimums anyway) or have a lot of Suffolk experience recently, but, if they can do 125 kg not pushed, what would they do pushed??
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Right well I think i'm just going to put him on a coarse mix from farmway (about 16% protein) and some sugar beet shreds. Do you soak the sugar beet like you would for horses or just feed it dry? Also if I split his food between two feeds a day how much should he be getting per feed? Thanks!
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Beet pulp is more palatable soaked and fills them up , don't know the coarse mix you mention if its says ok for rams then fine but it won't have the quality of a specialist ram feed , quantaties are up to you but start small and build up to what ever he will eat , as you progress then 4 feeds a day may be needed . If say you give 2 feeds of only beet pulp and 2 feeds of mix this will lessen the chances of acidosis , and rock salt would be good to make him drink and thus keep flushing his bladder , to reduce the chance of stones .
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Probably a given, but make sure he's vaccinated, ignore me if you have done so.
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Beet pulp is more palatable soaked and fills them up , don't know the coarse mix you mention if its says ok for rams then fine but it won't have the quality of a specialist ram feed , quantaties are up to you but start small and build up to what ever he will eat , as you progress then 4 feeds a day may be needed . If say you give 2 feeds of only beet pulp and 2 feeds of mix this will lessen the chances of acidosis , and rock salt would be good to make him drink and thus keep flushing his bladder , to reduce the chance of stones .
You see how much easier it is to just feed grass or hay ....?
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You see how much easier it is to just feed grass or hay ....?
Easier, cheaper and healthier for rumen development ---the animal also rarely gets overweight on a grass diet
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sorry I wasnt saying that you did push them!
although 125kilo at 6 months has surely got to take some good feeding? I knew suffolks grew on fast but I didnt know that fast! how much does the suffolk ewe weigh?
I know of many people who really do push the lambs/rams hard, feeding them things they shouldnt in huge amounts :o just to get the top prizes at the show, which is sad
not sure how much the ewe weighs but shes a 3rd crop ewe..the lamb weighed near 15kg at birth..so he was a brut to begin with...ano ones who wont sell ram lambs if they arent up to the weight..i find the sugar beet shreds the best for what im doing anyway...i mix the coarse meal in with it an they go mad for it
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15 kg !!!!
That's massive---average weight for single Suffolk lambs from mature ewes is 5.6kg (BASCO performance data) & 21 week weights vary from 47 to 88.1 kg
Did you scan him for muscle /fat depth? 21 week muscle depth varies from 29 to 46.7 mm in Suffolks
Would you want lambs that big?---Would they not give a few lambing problems now and then?
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GUINNESS world record is 10.8 kg born in 2013
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maybe its supposed to be in ibs
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GUINNESS world record is 10.8 kg born in 2013
go to the suffolk society basco records an it will tell ye thats not true..i didnt breed it purposely to be that big, she give no problems at all..they are lambs born far far bigger than him
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Far bigger then 15kg? My sheepdog weighs about that, I think she would retire the day she met a 15kg new born!
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go to the suffolk society basco records an it will tell ye thats not true..i didnt breed it purposely to be that big, she give no problems at all..they are lambs born far far bigger than him
hardly worth arguing about but 15 kg does seem a whooper ---I can only find BASCO info. on average sizes on the Suffolk site ---do they show record sizes too? Can you post a link, it would be interesting to see largest/smallest viable lamb sizes etc
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go to the suffolk society basco records an it will tell ye thats not true..i didnt breed it purposely to be that big, she give no problems at all..they are lambs born far far bigger than him
hardly worth arguing about but 15 kg does seem a whooper ---I can only find BASCO info. on average sizes on the Suffolk site ---do they show record sizes too? Can you post a link, it would be interesting to see largest/smallest viable lamb sizes etc
the only sizes i can give personally are the ones from my lambing book that has to be kept when registering..birth,8 week and 12 week is recorded on it an they are marked on a score from 1 to 5 for lambing, vigour an suckling assistance..i can send you a copy of my lambing book from last year..on my personal online basco i can look up lamb weights tho..
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Gosh... 15Kilo lamb!! Not sure whether to believe it, sure its not in lbs?
In the farmers weekly this year was a 10 kilo monster lamb, you should tell the farmers weekly about your lambs next year
If a newborn lamb can be 15 kilo then thats enough to put me off suffolks for life I reckon
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Totally agree with you LadyGrey.
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go to the suffolk society basco records an it will tell ye thats not true..i didnt breed it purposely to be that big, she give no problems at all..they are lambs born far far bigger than him
hardly worth arguing about but 15 kg does seem a whooper ---I can only find BASCO info. on average sizes on the Suffolk site ---do they show record sizes too? Can you post a link, it would be interesting to see largest/smallest viable lamb sizes etc
the only sizes i can give personally are the ones from my lambing book that has to be kept when registering..birth,8 week and 12 week is recorded on it an they are marked on a score from 1 to 5 for lambing, vigour an suckling assistance..i can send you a copy of my lambing book from last year..on my personal online basco i can look up lamb weights tho..
I was wondering what the range of birth weights were for the pure Suffolk breed and the only info. I can find are from BASCO data on the society website for average sizes
I found what I presume to be your data (Beagh Suffolks) on the BASCO site but it only came up with 3 lambs for some reason ?
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go to the suffolk society basco records an it will tell ye thats not true..i didnt breed it purposely to be that big, she give no problems at all..they are lambs born far far bigger than him
hardly worth arguing about but 15 kg does seem a whooper ---I can only find BASCO info. on average sizes on the Suffolk site ---do they show record sizes too? Can you post a link, it would be interesting to see largest/smallest viable lamb sizes etc
the only sizes i can give personally are the ones from my lambing book that has to be kept when registering..birth,8 week and 12 week is recorded on it an they are marked on a score from 1 to 5 for lambing, vigour an suckling assistance..i can send you a copy of my lambing book from last year..on my personal online basco i can look up lamb weights tho..
I was wondering what the range of birth weights were for the pure Suffolk breed and the only info. I can find are from BASCO data on the society website for average sizes
I found what I presume to be your data (Beagh Suffolks) on the BASCO site but it only came up with 3 lambs for some reason ?
we have sold alot of lambs and old ewes this year. on there at the moment are 3 tups for breeding with the commerials of my own breeding the one that is SUX 14:00102 is the one that was the monster lamb...that lamb also won me a cup this year.
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I just need to get this off my chest: "Suffolking big lamb that is!"
There, its off.
How long have you bred your monster Suffolks?
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I just need to get this off my chest: "Suffolking big lamb that is!"
There, its off.
How long have you bred your monster Suffolks?
that lamb was just by chance of AI off a big tup...all the rest of them vary between 5-8.5kg ....we went out them then i decided to go back under my own name a couple of years ago
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What is your rate of assisted births (touching at all) vs lambing completely unassisted?
Do you select for unassisted lambing?
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What is your rate of assisted births (touching at all) vs lambing completely unassisted?
Do you select for unassisted lambing?
all my commercial ewes are selected for unassisted lambing but the pedigrees are generally unassisted expect for the odd gimmer with first lambing complications...most of the tups we use are for easier lambing to make life easier.
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we have sold alot of lambs and old ewes this year. on there at the moment are 3 tups for breeding with the commerials of my own breeding the one that is SUX 14:00102 is the one that was the monster lamb...that lamb also won me a cup this year.
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Found him!
http://www.basco.org/sheep/animalmanager/animaldetails/id/9677702 (http://www.basco.org/sheep/animalmanager/animaldetails/id/9677702)
Imagine what weight he would be if he was in the top 10% of the breed ---potentially an extra 5 kg!
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Just wait for the navels to dry and straight away to the light lamb market!
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Just wait for the navels to dry and straight away to the light lamb market!
I was actually referring to the 20 week weights --- this lamb has shown tremendous growth but is genetically ranked as below average (20 week weight potential of +4.97 kg ) whereas the top 10% of the breed have a potential of +9.42 kg
So therefore a lamb with higher genetic potential but with the same well managed feed regime could achieve exceptional weights
Do you scan for muscle/fat depths Beagh Suffolks?
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Just wait for the navels to dry and straight away to the light lamb market!
I was actually referring to the 20 week weights --- this lamb has shown tremendous growth but is genetically ranked as below average (20 week weight potential of +4.97 kg ) whereas the top 10% of the breed have a potential of +9.42 kg
So therefore a lamb with higher genetic potential but with the same well managed feed regime could achieve exceptional weights
Do you scan for muscle/fat depths Beagh Suffolks?
no, because for that i would have to join the signet group..where i would be scanning and weighing everything..i dont have enough ewes at the moment to justify the price of that..so im just doing the weights..the only animal on that that has had all them scans an weights is my stock ram Burnview Risky Business ..(couldnt think what else to name him!)
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Not a bad name---1 year I named all my pedigree rams after dictators, Gaddaffi, Thatcher, Amin etc
Another year it was curries ;D
Don't bother with names at all now UK number is plenty
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Not a bad name---1 year I named all my pedigree rams after dictators, Gaddaffi, Thatcher, Amin etc
Another year it was curries ;D
Don't bother with names at all now UK number is plenty
all rams are numbered in the suffolk society until you sell them for breeding then the new owner has to register them as a stock ram therefore having to give it a name...numbers are easier
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Aww, I'm so disappointed! I thought 20kg lambs were on the cards!
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Aww, I'm so disappointed! I thought 20kg lambs were on the cards!
If i breed a ram guaranteed to produce 20kg lambs then you have to promise to use him on all your ewes (and pay me lots of money of course)
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I'm sure I'm not the only one would pay money for a tup that throws teeny tiny lambs that grow like stink :)
I've had too many vet interventions with monster lambs to wish that on any of my girls. (Not many, but any is too many.)
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I'm sure I'm not the only one would pay money for a tup that throws teeny tiny lambs that grow like stink :)
I've had too many vet interventions with monster lambs to wish that on any of my girls. (Not many, but any is too many.)
That's the general aim of good breeders
As far as I remember (without looking up the paper) optimum survival rates in commercial ewes are 3 to 5kg ---any lower and hypothermia risks rise, and higher and lambing risks rise dramatically
Obviously varies with ewe size & type
Ewe and lamb shape also has a large effect on lamb survival. Wedge shaped lamb with narrow shoulders that slip out easily----which is why the trend for 'nice square sheep' in some show circles is not a good thing
3 interventions a year out of 1000 ewes is my normal rate---usually ewe lambs or trips/quads. That's plenty
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Aww, I'm so disappointed! I thought 20kg lambs were on the cards!
If i breed a ram guaranteed to produce 20kg lambs then you have to promise to use him on all your ewes (and pay me lots of money of course)
Ok will do!
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I'm sure I'm not the only one would pay money for a tup that throws teeny tiny lambs that grow like stink :)
I've had too many vet interventions with monster lambs
Shame, I like doing sheep ceasars (on other peoples sheep!) I've always been tempted to put a Charmoise poster up over the caesarean table - but then maybe its not the right time.. too soon too soon..
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Aww, I'm so disappointed! I thought 20kg lambs were on the cards!
If i breed a ram guaranteed to produce 20kg lambs then you have to promise to use him on all your ewes (and pay me lots of money of course)
Ok will do!
So seeing as you are a vet... you could either
A: sell tups that give monster lambs at birth to all of your clients, knuckle down and become a cesar expert and charge a fortune for all of these cesars and be rolling in money
or B: sell them your charmoise tups, all the lambs come flying out with running shoes on, they come back for more tups and you increase your tup production, become well known and are then rolling in money.....
hmmm.... :thinking:
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TBH caesars don't make vets a lot of money - ok I will go for Plan B! NO! Plan A then Plan B and ramp the price up!
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i only got my new stock ram this year i have no idea how he produces...hes a triplet himself...i got him to late to use on my pedigrees (there all AI ed now)..an i have never used a Suffolk on my commercial ewes..so this shall be interesting :3...always used an ile de france tup an have never had the vet out for any lambings with them...they near come out with running shoes on!