The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: Helen Wiltshire Horn on October 20, 2014, 09:45:50 pm
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My cow, a black short Dexter, had a non-short red heifer calf on Friday night. We are planning on milking her and started yesterday. We tied her up in the handling gates and gave her a bucket of food. We brought her calf in as well and spent lots of time handling her (she will be halter-trained). I was wondering if anyone can give me any advice. Firstly, Mum isn't hugely keen on having her udders handled and whilst I had meant to get her used to me doing this before she calved, what with one thing and another I didn't get around to it. It is more a kick of annoyance and I have been getting really close so that any kicks don't hurt so much! Towards to end of the session today she was pretty calm and wasn't trying to kick but I still don't risk sitting on a stool with a bucket under her udders if you know what I mean! I really only want to take a small amount from her, perhaps a couple of pints a day. Do I have to take the same amount every day and at the same time and is this a reasonable amount? My problem is that milking seems at the moment to be a pretty much two person job and my husband is likely to get busy with work soon. Anyway, as you might be able to tell this is the first time we have milked one of our cows but I would love to have a bit of milk for the house and it seems to be quite complementary to halter-training a calf and getting it used to human contact. Also, at what age is the calf likely to follow the herd? It is a very spritely thing when it wants to be but was quite happy lying in the grass this morning which meant getting her in the handling area was quite tricky. Any tips?
Helen
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My experience is with my Jerseys, not Dexters, but I am happy to share my findings.
Ideally you'd have got her used to being tied up and you fiddling about underneath, clattering with buckets, etc, before she calved, which would have made this stage a little easier, yes.
However, she will settle to it, I'm sure, with patience and persistence.
With a heifer I find it best to be very consistent, yes, so same routine, same sequence of events, same amount of milk every day. Once they've 'learned the job' and the routine, you can start to take days off milking when you don't need any milk, take less or more, as you require.
In your situation I would recommend, if you can, separating mum and calf for a few hours before you want to milk. (You're going to need to do this later as the calf grows in any case, or there'll be no milk for you when you come to milk her ;)) Calfie will be keen enough to follow mum when you lead her off to the milking parlour then ;). And mum will be so pleased to see calf and feel calfie on her teats that she'll drop the milk no bother ;)
Re: the kicks when you get onto mum's teats, these should disappear as she gets used to the job. Yes, get in close so she can't hurt you or knock the bucket over. I do tell mine off if they kick, it's never allowed to kick a human, but some of the heifers do take longer to get used to the shenanigans underneath than others. Rather than have her getting into a habit of kicking, I'd be inclined to hobble her until she's settled into the whole thing. She'll soon learn there's no point trying to kick and will stop trying. I use a couple of quick-release puppy collars and a quick-release clip between them.
I do all my milking on my own, even when a second pair of hands would be useful. I just find that introducing another human for the heifer to think about and interact with is counter-productive, so I solve any problems on my own ;)
And any time I'm really struggling, I use 'pressure-and-release' tactics. Ask for what you want, firmly but kindly. As soon as you get even a tiny bit of what you asked for, release. Repeat repeat repeat. So for instance, if she's a kicker and is not happy with me putting a puppy collar on her leg, I'll stroke the leg, then handle the 'ankle', then hold the collar against it, and so on, all the time getting a little bit further but stopping the instant she relaxes into it. Then go again but a little bit further this time.
Good luck!
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it gets easier.
we are still learning but are milking our Shetland, who now has her 2nd calf. she wasn't too keen to let us milk her when she had her first calf but now she is a lot more relaxed. infact she loves coming in to be milked as she knows she will get a feed, she is ruled by her belly.
since last yr, wev progressed from irritated kicks to now allowing my children to have a try. we just take it as and when as the calf is with her and use a small plastic cup which we use to top up a bigger container so if it gets spilt its no big deal.
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Thanks so much to both of you for your replies. I shall try a hobble, more for my peace of mind, and hopefully she will get used to having her udders handled. Any other ideas for fashioning one if I can't get hold of quick release puppy collars? I have a soft sheep harness but I am not sure how I could make it quick release. Do you think I should put Mum in a field shelter for a couple of hours before milking? I could bring her in first thing when I check on the cattle and give her a haynet for a few hours. I am really only thinking of taking a couple of pints each day but could increase and decrease according to needs. I would ideally like a bit of flexibility in due course, especially as I have other animals to look after. Thanks again.
Helen
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Before I got the puppy collars I used baler twine. Using double thickness and making the piece that went round each leg safe so it couldn't pull over-tight. Then joining the leg pieces with another piece of double baler twine using a quick-release knot, like you tie a horse's haynet up with.
I am much happier with the puppy collars though ;)
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Pointless pedantry warning...
I'm so sorry, but I can't help myself...
A cow has one udder. A cow's udder has four quarters, each of which has one teat.
A sheep has one udder too. A sheep's udder usually has just two quarters (I know, I know, but this is physiology, not mathematics!), each of which usually has one teat.
Sorry again. I shall go hide in shame for being such a pedant. :-[
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Please post a photo of your hobbles, Sally
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My third attempt at hand-milking today and I got just over 2 litres. We got both cow and calf into the field shelter and tied them both up. She only tried to kick a couple of times when I brought over my milking stool and am going to get a hobble even though she was much calmer today. My latest problem is hair on the udder. Do you think I could clip around the udder? It is a bit disconcerting having long black hairs floating in the milk! I think I am just going to experiment over the next few weeks, with quantity and timing and with separating cow and calf for a couple of hours beforehand. Thanks for the advice so far.
Helen
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You can clip the udder if you want. Sometimes you catch the hairs as you are milking and that can cause a kick. I did know someone who waxed her goats udders' if they were were a hairy goat, but knowing how sore that it is for us humans, I'd don't think I'd like to try it on an animal! If you do want to try that her tip was to do when the udder is full and tight and therefore the skin tauter.
I would add all of my experience is goats rather than cows. But, however awful they are to be milked at first, they all do settle to being milked. Sometimes it's just time and perseverance which are required.
Beth
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She'll soon settle down, cows are creatures of habit and will soon just accept being milked as part of her daily routine :thumbsup:
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mine also has a hairy udder, I was thinking about trimming her a little bit as its easy to snag a hair whilst milking.
sounds like you are doing a great job :thumbsup:
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Thanks for all your replies. I had my first go at milking by myself today and got just under 2 litres which is probably about all we need for the house. I think I am getting a bit better and braver regarding the kicks but my husband has ordered me a Fearing cow hobble as a present! Can anyone give me a few tips regarding technique? Is it a pull and a squeeze? I am worried that I will hurt her or land up deforming her teats. I am also milking one handedly because I am worried about her kicking over the bucket. Her calf, Scarlet, seems to be doing really well. I got her into the field shelter with Mum and tied her up with a soft halter while I milked Mum. She has stopped pulling and lay down pretty quickly after being tied up. I am also making sure I handle her and give her a brush with a soft brush. Any other ideas to get her as used to human company as possible and as easy to handle in future?
Helen
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Milking technique is ideally to squeeze your thumb and forefinger round the top of the teat, blocking any milk from going back upwards, then gradually closing your other fingers in turn, so as to squeeze the milk downwards towards the teat opening. One handed is fine, if you need one to hold the bucket, you can do each teat until you have taken all you want, or alternate between them if you prefer.
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It sounds as though you are making great progress. :thumbsup:
If you are sitting close up to the heifer, hold the bucket between your shins. Then you aren't worried about it getting knocked over ;)
Be relaxed about the occasional 'accident' while she's learning. When training, I often use two buckets, and decant frequently into the one that's safely out of reach ;)
The technique is exactly as fsmnutter describes. However, if the heifer isn't dropping her milk well, it is very hard to get that feel. Once she's milking well, you will get that feel - you loosen the grip at the top of the teat, the teat fills with milk, you restore the 'valve' effect and gentle pressure with the other fingers will then squirt the trapped milk out of the teat. If you were to watch me milking Plenty, you'd see no movement in my arms or hands, just a rhythmical squeeze - without pulling - of the fingers and thumb. But while you and she are learning, you will feel a bit more as though you have to pull it out of her. You won't harm her as long as you take care to not be pushing milk back up the channel into the udder - so get that 'valve' thing working well, and don't worry while you are learning if you feel as though you are pulling more than you would like.
One thing that can really help her to drop the milk is if the calf is on suckling her at the same time. So then you can get the feel of how it should be and can develop your technique without struggling to get milk into the teat. ;)
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On befriending the calf, if you're grooming it you're probably building a good relationship with it anyway.
While it's very baby it'll enjoy sucking on your fingers (or clothing, or hair, or a bit of string... ::).) As it gets a little older you may be able to introduce calf crunch, which will make it like you very much ;)
I find that stroking the calf under the chin, forward from neck to chin, seems to trigger a response to lift the head (as it does when mum cleans it.) Doing this regularly makes the calf think I must be like mum, and it starts to come up to me looking for me to do this.
Needless to say, don't mess on stroking the front of the head, face, between the ears, or you'll end up with a calf that head-butts you for attention.
When it's suckling mum, scritch the top of the tail and around its backside. It'll lift its tail, like it does for mum to clean it, and again this seems to be a bonding thing. As it gets more comfortable with you, you can do this tail-top and under the tail stroking and get it to lift its tail even when mum isn't there.
As it's a heifer calf, if you are planning to breed it and milk it, then also get it used to handling its undercarriage. Move on from the under-the-tail stroking to stroke inside the rear legs - some calves will lift a leg for you, again as they would for mum for cleaning. And then on to handling the teats and under the tummy.
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SallyintNorth - can I please ask what calf crunch is? I will keep up with handling the calf and try the things you suggest. When I brought her in this morning she was lying down within a couple of minutes of being tied up and my children love making a fuss of her. She doesn't want to be led anywhere at the moment so shifting her is tricky but I presume that this will come. Do you think 2lt a day is an ok amount to be taking? I don't want to take too much in case there is a day when I can't milk (and what with 2 small kids, half term coming up and a smallholding full of animals might happen). I am going to experiment with bringing Mum in a bit early and leaving the calf out in the field for a couple of hours to see how this affects let-down and milk volumes.
Helen
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Most TASers seem to use Buttercup Calf Crunch (http://www.harbro.co.uk/index.php/Page/product_page/buttercup-calf-crunch1). I haven't found that around here, but our calves love the Carrs' Champion equivalent (http://www.carrs-billington.com/shop/farm-supplies-agricultural-equipment/champion-animal-feeds/calf-mixtures/carrs-billington-champion-calf-starter). (We buy it in 25kg sacks, we don't have to buy it by the tonne.)
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Just a quick question regarding hobbling my cow. She has settled quite a bit but I really only feel comfortable that she won't try and kick when she has her head in a bucket. I have bought a hobble but wonder how she will react when I put it on her. Any tips? (Presumably do it quickly whilst she is feeding). Today wasn't great but then as it is warm there are a lot of flies and I think that she was kicking to swat them away most of the time. That said, it isn't a particuarly enjoyable experience milking whilst you are constantly on your guard. We have only done just over a week of daily milking (barring one day) so do you think that there is still time for her to calm down?
Helen
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Yes, plenty of time yet, don't fret.
When I put my puppy collar hobbles on, I stroke her about her rear - while she's eating cake - and then move down the leg. Usually there's no reaction so I put the collars on, then clip them together, which she doesn't notice. I've no experience of the pukka type; it's possible that she will notice them going on, of course...
You could get your helper to hold her tail up while you put them on - they can't kick when their tail is held up vertically - but that's more likely to create resistance than help, I'd think. Getting her used to them softly would be better, as you will be wanting to fit them every day, usually on your own.
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Thanks SallyintNorth. I will give the softly softly approach a try as I will need to fit it by myself on a regular basis. I think I am just especially worried as I am aware what an issue it would be if I got properly kicked and put out of action for any time. I must say that handmilking feels like a bit of a chore at the moment (but I had a two and a half hour round trip to the abattoir with a steer this morning at 6am and had to take my 3 year old with me). How long do you think it takes a cow to get used to being milked? I suppose at least a good sign is that she is still allowing me to catch her each day and take her into the field shelter and it might get even easier now the grass isn't as good. I got just over a litre of milk today which is lovely to have.
Helen
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One more question. How should I react when she tries to kick me? I'm afraid I rather lost my temper today and called her some choice names!
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If it's a genuine aggressive trying-to-kick-you kick, rather than a that-feels-horrid irritated stamp, I'd be using choice words - and probably a smack with a blue pipe - too!
Then I'd calm down :hug:, forget focussing on getting her milk in my tea, and build up slowly. So each day, do the routine, wash, dry and fiddle on with the bag, do a few squirts, lots of praise when she's good. If she kicks, try not to lose your temper (I know it can be hard!), persist until you get some, even if it's only three squirts, without her kicking, praise her and stop on a 'high'.
Hopefully over time, the amount you get will increase and eventually she'll stop being silly.
The other thing I do with mine when I'm training them, is I give them enough cake to eat while I get them tied up, washed and dried, then just a bit at a time. They know there's more cake, but I only give them a bit more when they've been standing nicely letting me take some milk. I never give them cake to distract them when they've just kicked me. They don't make the association as quickly as a dog would, but in time they do get the message that if they want that cake they can see but not reach, they have to let you take some milk.
Also, I spend time with them, fussing them, rubbing the top of the tail and down around the udder and back, at other times during the day, so that my only interation with them is not just when I'm trying to raid the milk bar.
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Thanks. That's what I have been trying to do but thanks for reminding me not to give her cake when she has been trying to kick. I just don't enjoy milking whilst I am so conscious of her attempts to kick but we have had good days when she hasn't tried once. It just seems so variable and must depend on her mood (and probably mine).
Helen
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That's great. If you've had good days then it's definitely worth persisting. And yes, don't underestimate the impact of your mood on her. If you have a thing you do to get you into a good frame of mind - for me, it's spending time with my collie bitch - then do that first, before milking ;)
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Thanks again. I had a good day today but only got a litre and a half as she was pretty much dry on one side. I have tried seperating her from her calf for a couple of hours beforehand but it seemed to stress her more and her calf fed through the fence anyway but I may have to revisit in future. Perhaps it would work better if I brough calfie into the field shelter before her. I didn't hobble her today as I want to do it the first time with someone close at hand. A couple of things made a difference today. No flies and being by myself helped, as did sprinkling her cake on the ground so she spent more time finding it rather than wolfing it from the bucket. Can you suggest any food that will take her a while to eat without being too fattening, or do you think it is ok if she has quite a bit whilst I am milking? Today she had half a small bucket of rolled barley mixed with cattle nuts. She isn't hugely interested in hay yet as we still have quite a bit of grass and a haynet doesn't provide the necessary distraction. Not one attempted kick today which makes a huge difference about how I feel about it!
Helen
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Great news that you milked today without any attempted kick :thumbsup:
I buy Mollichaff to mix with cattle cake - just a regular 16% stockblend - to feed to them when they're in training, so they can have plenty and it takes them a while to eat. Sometimes I soak sugar beet shreds and mix that in too. We accidentally got some Alfa-A this year, and they [I[loved[/I] that - but Mollichaff is cheaper ;)
With mine, by the time the calf is 3-4 weeks old, I need to keep it off overnight really to get a couple of litres in the morning and leave some for calfie's breakfast.