The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: hafod on October 17, 2014, 09:43:26 pm
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Horrible day today.
I had just come back from a ride, put the horse out in the field and went down the drive to shut the gate when I heard this awful screeching. I looked round to see next doors dog with one of our hens in it's mouth - tossing it about and shaking it and I go to phone my neighbours to tell them to come and sort it out before anyone answered I spotted one of my neighbours in the lane. So I shouted at him to come and sort his dog out. By this time the dog had disappeared (presumably to get another hen). After a bit of 'where's my do?' 'are you sure it was my dog?' the dog reappears and my neighbour trys to call it to him . He eventually gets it close to him, turns his back on me and walks off. He gets to the bottom of the drive and I shout to him, ' you haven't even apologised'. So he says he'll be back.
While he's away I find another 2 dead hens and one flattened, bloody and struggling for breath which I had to put out of its misery. My neighbour arrives back ( I don't really remember in what order the rest happens) - I show him the 4 dead hens - he tries to tell me one is just in shock. He apologises, says that he didn't apologise at first because he was getting the dog under control (well it's the 1st thing I would have done). Says 'you don't think I did this on purpose do you?', asks me how much the hens were worth (I told him I didn't want his money). Says that the only reason the dog was out was because he had his gate open as he was sweeping up the leaves he also says that it wouldn't have happened if my gate had been shut. I said I expect my animals to be safe on my own property and I didn't think it was my job to keep his dog off my land. At somepoint we had a conversation about where his wife was - she was out looking for the dog (she drives everywhere and there was no sign of her so I'm guessing the dog must have been 'gone' a while).
So apart from being angry and upset and think that my neighbour handled it very badly by not apologising and then saying it wouldn't have happened if my gate had been shut. Also, there was blood and feathers everywhere, I had ripped trousers and blood dripping down my leg and was shaking - he didn't ask me whether I was ok or offer to help clear up). I am mostly worried that the dog will come back and go for the remaining hens or the cats or the sheep. In fact, only last week I found a huge dog poo in the sheep field, when I asked them about whether their other dog had got in with the sheep - they denied it (and I believed them) but we don't live near a foot path and there was no way this pile of poo came from a fox (unless it had a problem!) so I was a bit suspicious....
Anyway, is it worth reporting this to anyone? if so who? From my conversation with my neighbour he didn't really seem to accept that he had done anything wrong so I have no confidence that they will go to any lengths to stop it happening again.
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The only way in my opinion to work through this is by friendly co-operation. Between you and your neighbour work out a way of reducing the risk of dogs meeting hens. Good fences make good neighbours.
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Depends on how your relationship with your neighbour was until now, and the type of area you live in - in certain places reporting it to the police would be normal, in others not. Have you had problems with him before? How rural (or not) is it where you live?
From his reaction, he doesn't seem like the type of neighbour with whom friendliness or attempts at cooperation would work, though you could try going 'round in the morning and in a friendly way telling him you expect to be compensated before you decide whether to report the incident or not based on his response. He definitely doesn't take responsibility the way he should. Not keeping your gate shut doesn't take any responsibility away from him, and with some people, mainly the unapologetic 'nothing-is-ever-my-fault' type, putting a sign up saying 'trespassing dogs shall be shot' is the only thing that works - as long as you don't have a dog that at times escapes into his garden as well ;)
On one of the farms here there's a sign up about sheep worrying being a crime as a public footpath runs through it and irresponsible dog ownership has been an issue - unfortunately some don't understand the term 'sheep worrying' and think it funny ::)
It all depends on your setup and relationship whether you report it or not, but he definitely has to keep his dog under control. Does he live right next to you, do you share a path or driveway or so, or could you live alongside him but ignore him? I know of neighbours here falling out over the exact same thing as what happened to your hens, with a similar reaction from the dog owner, but not reporting it as they share a driveway with him and the owner was about to move.Are your gate and fence high enough to stop the dog jumping over now that it knows where the goodies are? You're right, that would be the main worry right now - that the dog will come again :(
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If the friendly, neighbourly way doesn't work then your local dog warden might be your best bet. Our's is wonderful.
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Hmm Im not sure what you want to happen, your neighbour returned & apologised, offered to pay for the losses his dog caused, if it was a genuine accident the neighbours dog escaping and you leaving your gate open its just an unfortunate turn of events in my opinion.
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From Monday the new powers in the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 come into effect and these give quite far reaching powers to both the police and the local council to control dogs.
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An unfortunate series of events have combined to create this tragedy. But I have to say Hafod, that by the sounds of it your hens could be taken by any predator at any time. Particularly illegally released urban foxes in broad daylight. So I think your neighbour has done you a favour in a strange way. If you leave your hens out in an unsecured area sooner or later you will lose them, but next time it could be all of them. You need to get them securely enclosed.
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An unfortunate series of events have combined to create this tragedy. But I have to say Hafod, that by the sounds of it your hens could be taken by any predator at any time. Particularly illegally released urban foxes in broad daylight. So I think your neighbour has done you a favour in a strange way. If you leave your hens out in an unsecured area sooner or later you will lose them, but next time it could be all of them. You need to get them securely enclosed.
I disagree - to me the point of having hens is that they free range over my land and are not enclosed. It is by no means certain that a predator will take their hens - we certainly have never lost one during the day time.
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:hug: Sorry. A horrible thing to happen.
Chrismahon is right in that true 'free rangers' take a chance more than enclosed hens but unless I had a continuing problem with predators I would sooner that mine were out and about.
If it were the first incident with this neighbour and their dogs then I think I would accept the apology and the compensation. Accidents can happen to the best of folk .... with the best of intentions. Hopefully they will be more careful in future and put their dog indoors if they need to have their gate open. They should have said an instant sorry. Do you think they were shocked and wanted to get the dog secured before more harm was done?Suppose it depends what type of people they are.
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take his money but make sure you price the hens on the high side, remember how much it cost to get them to the age where they lay (and obviously they are top pedigree rare breed show stock - which you travelled miles to get ::)). im sure having to pay up will hit home. very distressing for you :bouquet:
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terrible thing to happen. I am aware also that the chap did apologise and did offer to pay for the loss. We have several near neighbours and none of them are anything like as animal nuts as me and OH. we get on brilliantly but we are so devoted to our sheep pigs and chickens that we are not prepared to rely on neighbours or their visitors thinking about our animals safety in the way that we do. in my world nothing (and I mean nothing) happens before the animals needs and security are dealt with at all times. when our neighbours lab puppy became bigger, more boisterous and capable of leaping our fence and running round the field I went round, told the neighbour how worried I was and asked if I could sheep train him. this happened and crisis over. sometimes I think its because we don't have kids, but our animals are so important to us and it feels safer to start from a place assuming all others are thoughtless idiots means that our sheep , pigs and chickens are not at risk from anyone elses cluelessness.
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Obviously we don't know your neighbour or any history but I kind of agree with some other posts. The guy did come back and apologise and offered to pay for the stock. Animals are animals and bad things happen. If your neighbours son had pet worms, left the lid off and your 'out of control hens' flew over the fence and got in, what would happen then?
You have to see both sides. You choose to let your hens range and that's OK but you to accept that they are more at risk. We did with our garden (pet) birds for a while until they decided the conservatory was a better place to hang out. So now they are in a 50m net. But when they were out they would be all over the place. On the road, up the hedges, in the river. We know we have fox visits, even in the day but we decided that we would take that chance. If anything happened we decided we would not blame the fox, or the car driver or the person walking their dog. It's a risk assessment and you live with the consequences.
I would have thought a calm and honest chat with the neighbour without threats would be in order. Ask him to pay for the hens at full value. If he does this and accepts that he needs to take at least some measures to prevent it happening again then there is no need to fall out, unless he doesn't stick to his side of the deal. If you do fall out and it descends into threats and legal action, it's not going to make your life any better, or his.
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I have four dogs, 10 hens, 2 quail and 5 ducks. At NO TIME do I let my dogs come in contact with my birds - nature such as it is the temptation is too much. Keep your gate shut or your hens penned in.
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I lost a hen to a neighbour's dog a couple of years ago. Really upsetting at the time to see the dog running around with it, neighbour unable to get it back - hen was still alive when I got her back but died within minutes. My neighbour came back later to apologise - once she'd taken the dog home (he was off the lead on a walk at the time and I was cleaning out the hens so the run was open - all unfortunate). By the time she came back, I'd had time to calm down and she did apologise profusely and offer to pay etc. - apology was accepted and neighbourly relations have been maintained. She's always taken them in a different direction for walks since. I agree with the others - this is about good local relationships too and it does work both ways. Yes, their dog shouldn't have been in your garden but you know that if your hens are free range, they are at risk from predators. We have free range dogs on the run maybe twice a year? I tend to mention the lambs in the field opposite and how the farmers there shoot dogs - tends to get them back on the lead. Not normally local owners though.
My guess would be that your neighbour was shocked at the time and more worried about trying to get his dog out of there. Not everybody is mature enough to realise that a full apology straight off is the best way to compensate for something like this (my husband wouldn't) but he did come back and apologise which would have been difficult for him to do.
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I can only free range my poultry because my dogs free range with them, otherwise they would have to be restricted. My whippets chased and killed a young fox two days ago and though it was a distressing sight at the time it would have been far worse for me had I found that awful pile of feathers :(
I bought four new banties from the market yesterday and one escaped. I found her at dusk perched on a dog in the kennels ::)
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Sorry, I know this isn't quite a response to the original topic, but Devonlady: I'd like to hear more about your whippets! Is that typically whippet behaviour? I need a dog to free range with my chickens - unfortunately my friend's Jack Russell terrier doesn't quite qualify for the job! ::) :D
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Ahh, our 2 cocker spaniels free range with our 'free range' chooks & ducks.
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My spaniels and labrador all free-ranged with our hens (after some training :innocent: ). The old girl even lets them steal from her bowl whilst she is eating.
I caught our neighbour's builder's Jack Russell chasing and killing the hens in the garden recently. Later in the week he knocked at our door. I answered, expecting a gift of some sort as compensation, and he asked if we had any eggs as there were none in the honesty box ::) . What a moron.
And our deaf cat was killed on the drive by a dog :'( :'( . Sadly, it's a hazard if your property is open.
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My neighbours dog killed some if my bantams... She sweetly came round and insisted on paying for them. Would obviously rather have the bants then the money but I appreciated her honesty and the gesture
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Sorry, I know this isn't quite a response to the original topic, but Devonlady: I'd like to hear more about your whippets! Is that typically whippet behaviour? I need a dog to free range with my chickens - unfortunately my friend's Jack Russell terrier doesn't quite qualify for the job! ::) :D
I have whippets, pugs, a greyhound, an Ibizan, a border terrier and a yorkie and can't say whether it is breed trait in any of them. I can only think that the sheep, poultry and pigs are regarded as part of the pack. I have a feeling that if a strange dog were to be brought in it may upset the balance.
If I were to choose a dog for guarding poultry, I think I may go for a traditional guarding breed. Or a Border Collie could easily be taught to respect poultry.
Sorry, I'm not much help but maybe if you got a whippet pup it would be fine. You would need to be VERY firm though in the first instance.
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Sorry folks, as someone who doesn't keep dogs I tend to disagree with the advice you should keep your hens locked up because you have free rangeing dogs in the neighbourhood.... Dogs are supposed to be kept under control and if they are not you should report it, especially if they have caused you damage! I thought that's what laws are there for? :rant: :&>
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Accidents happen. One of my neighbours terriers got out of its run and ran through three gardens and under my garden gate and managed to get in to my locked hen run. His owner was in hot pursuit, we found out when we heard the noise, I do not know who was shrieking the loudest the hens or the dogs owner. He had managed to kill three hens in a very short space of time. Its just one of those things.
I make a point of never falling out with neighbours however annoying they are. We have had grass clipping fed to ponies, geese pooing on the grass, plants chopped back to the ground on our side of the fence and the latest one is the neighbour is trying to claim for loss of food in a freezer when the contractors when through the mains electric. I smile sweetly and thank God( if there is one) that its all I have to worry about.
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whilst i can't disagree with your point northfifeduckling i'm not prepared to risk it. knowing that someone broke a law would be little comfort if my hens or sheep were maimed or killed. also, a major factor in our gorgeous country lifestyle is that we get on well with those who live around us. if this were not so it would seriously taint this lifestyle we lead and I would simply have to move. I have worked far too many years to afford what we have to have it spoilt by feuds with neighbours. and issuing threats re dog wardens and laws does not fit at all with what I love about our life- so I will continue to keep my stock safe and always plan for worst case scenario.
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Circumstances always differ....I had the pleasure of neighbour's kid's dogs around here and I make sure they don't like seeing me (the dogs that is). I also prefer to speak to the neigbours of course. But if all else fails it might be better if someone else talks to difficult neighbours and helps deal with the outfall.
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Sorry folks, as someone who doesn't keep dogs I tend to disagree with the advice you should keep your hens locked up because you have free rangeing dogs in the neighbourhood.... Dogs are supposed to be kept under control and if they are not you should report it, especially if they have caused you damage! I thought that's what laws are there for? :rant: :&>
I'm with you tbh and I have a dog. If my poultry are free ranging on my land then I expect them to not be killed by someone's pet. If they are got by a wild predator then that's different. Too many people think of poultry as purely disposable whereas in reality they could have years of breeding behind them, same as any other livestock. My most valuable ones in that respect are penned although not fox proof.
I wouldn't go to the dog warden the first time but I would the second. tbh around here if someone's dog was wandering around on land not belonging to them, I expect the cows would get to it first-or the farmer.
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I agree, dogs have to be kept under control - and that needs to be done by their owners, not by me!
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If my neighbour had a dog I would make sure my gate was shut to protect my animals. You never know what could happen! I don't think it's worth taking the risk. I wouldn't expect my poultry to be killed on my land by someone's dog but 'accidents' do happen, dogs do escape...as has happened here & with other people.
As poultry owners it's our responsibility to protect them in what ever way possible from what ever the predator 'may be'
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I have many dogs (including bird dogs) and my neighbours have hens. If their hens come onto my land and my dogs get them I am very sorry and apologise but would prefer if they could stop them coming under the fence. If my dogs got out and went next door I would be devastated and really really sorry, make sure it never happened again and obviously recompense them. Its all down to fences imo. :thumbsup:
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iv had many pullets killed by a particular village cat but if the same happened with a wandering dog, id be devastated.
id also avoid falling out with neighbours if possible as its awful to live with. take his money and apology and hope it doesn't happen again :fc: :fc:
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Well my dogs, a collie, collie cross and a Jack Russell don't chase my free range chickens, or the cats for that matter because they have been taught not to. I used to be bothered with dogs trying to chase the ponies so I put sheep fencing all the way around our place with electric as the top strand. If this was a one off case then I would accept the money to replace the chickens but would also want assurance that it would not happen again.
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Devonlady - Just a word of advice from someone who has suffered troubles.
Don't admit to breaking the hunting ban on an open forum.
I have lurchers, a whippet, terriers and hound. We are a fox free zone. Used to do a hell of a lot of fox control, but now to admit that the dogs killed charlie is to invite a knock on the door and all of your dogs being pts be the rspca muppets.
But well done whippets :thumbsup:
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Devonlady - Just a word of advice from someone who has suffered troubles.
Don't admit to breaking the hunting ban on an open forum.
I have lurchers, a whippet, terriers and hound . We are a fox free zone. Used to do a hell of a lot of fox control, but now to admit that the dogs killed charlie is to invite a knock on the door and all of your dogs being pts be the rspca muppets.
But well done whippets :thumbsup:
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I will assert that I told those naughty dogs to leave that sweet fox alone!! Bad dogs ;) What next will these people come up with? No shooting of dear fluffy rabbits? Banned from taking that cuddly lamb to the abattoir?
I have said and will say again that these people are not RSPCA who did a good and sensible job but PETA, most members of which have probably never farmed.
I invite any arguments/discussions on the subject.
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I agree wholeheartedly. . . . . but the law, as they say, is an arse.
Unfortunately the RSPCA i now a very close minded political lobbying organisation.