The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Buildings & planning => Topic started by: mart6 on September 14, 2014, 06:10:19 pm
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Does anyone have any experience.
To keep it short i have 6.5 acres and to qualify for the 12.5 acre rules do i have to own all 12.5 acres or would i be able to rent another 6 acres. Would it still qualify with the additional 6 rented acres or would i have to purchase it to qualify
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So long as your holding totals 12.5 acres that is what matters. You may have to prove you are renting the remaining land. I am going through this now, my land is split, 4.5 miles from one another.
Not the land bit that's the worry, but while speaking to the building firm, I am interested in buying from, they said my stumbling block may be that my small flock of sheep, bigger herd of goats, an few pigs, may not warrant permitted development. They said I may as well put in for proper planning permission.
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I got mine built using permitted development before I'd even bought my sheep. The forms were filled in for a steel framed 60' x 30' barn for the use of machinery storage and fodder store.
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http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/264/299/annexepps7.pdf (http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/264/299/annexepps7.pdf)
Surely the key is ' trade or business'
The following extracted from the above pdf. To be within the rules I would think the total land needs to be a 'Unit' you must be able show it is for the purposes of a trade or business. I could have it totally wrong though.
must be on agricultural land, which means land in use for agriculture for the purposes of a trade or
business, and excludes any dwelling house or garden;
must be reasonably necessary for the purposes of agriculture within the unit. This condition does
not require that a new building should necessarily accommodate an agricultural use already
existing in the unit. Agricultural developments which are entirely self-contained and have no
direct relationship with the rest of the unit may thus benefit from permitted development rights;
must not give rise to, or alter or extend, a dwelling;
must not be within 25 metres of the metalled part of a trunk or classified road.
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So long as your holding totals 12.5 acres that is what matters. You may have to prove you are renting the remaining land. I am going through this now, my land is split, 4.5 miles from one another.
Not the land bit that's the worry, but while speaking to the building firm, I am interested in buying from, they said my stumbling block may be that my small flock of sheep, bigger herd of goats, an few pigs, may not warrant permitted development. They said I may as well put in for proper planning permission.
From what i have read you should be ok whatever you do dont mention housing animals in new building Say its for food storage machinery /tackle storage.
Hope i can rent some i am a real accidental smallholder long story
But need to start a permited development once you start you have 5 years to complete anyway also the right to temp accomodation till its built ie mobile home
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We are in an area of outstanding beauty, on the edge of the Peak Park - by edge I mean just up the road. I will bear in mind that my development is for hay etc. not for livestock!! I cannot see them allowing me to have a caravan though.
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We are in an area of outstanding beauty, on the edge of the Peak Park - by edge I mean just up the road. I will bear in mind that my development is for hay etc. not for livestock!! I cannot see them allowing me to have a caravan though.
http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/264/299/annexepps7.pdf (http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/264/299/annexepps7.pdf)
See page one at bottom re animal housing.
Dont mention that as a use to council
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The rules for me in Scotland are probably quite different to you in England so the following is probably no use to you whatsoever (but it might be to someone else).
If you holding is over 0.4ha you only need PP if the building is over a certain size, within 25m of a road or if you want to house poultry, pigs, animals bred for their skin or slurry within 400m of a house. No restrictions on a building for any other animals.
If you don't fall foul of any of the above restrictions all you have to do is submit prior notification to the council. A simple form with a £70 fee (the PN I submitted last month was just a basic pencil drawing of a shed that I did myself). If the council does not object within 28 days you can start building.
The first time I submitted prior notification for a building we were doing nothing with the land (needed a shed before we could get animals) however the council never asked anything about how much agriculture was going on so it made no difference.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/downloads/file/10899/prior_notification_guidance (http://www.highland.gov.uk/downloads/file/10899/prior_notification_guidance)
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The rules for me in Scotland are probably quite different to you in England so the following is probably no use to you whatsoever (but it might be to someone else).
If you holding is over 0.4ha you only need PP if the building is over a certain size, within 25m of a road or if you want to house poultry, pigs, animals bred for their skin or slurry within 400m of a house. No restrictions on a building for any other animals.
If you don't fall foul of any of the above restrictions all you have to do is submit prior notification to the council. A simple form with a £70 fee (the PN I submitted last month was just a basic pencil drawing of a shed that I did myself). If the council does not object within 28 days you can start building.
The first time I submitted prior notification for a building we were doing nothing with the land (needed a shed before we could get animals) however the council never asked anything about how much agriculture was going on so it made no difference.
http://www.highland.gov.uk/downloads/file/10899/prior_notification_guidance (http://www.highland.gov.uk/downloads/file/10899/prior_notification_guidance)
Looks very close to English rules except it has to be 5 hecters in England :(
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I assumed there was a difference because of the concerns people have highlighted about livestock use.
If the rules are similar then as long as you are not building a poultry or pig shed or a slurry store or a mink farm within 400m of a house there should be no concerns. Outwith 400m from a house you can build for any (agricultural) purpose and within 400m there should be no problems with housing for cattle/sheep etc.
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We have just got permission for an agg storage building- we are 10 acres so had to apply for planning, the good news is the fee is about £80 not the £400 ish for full planning----so applying really isnt that much of an issue--if the reasons are genuine and the building thoughtfully positioned there will be little reason for refusal.
Ours went through no problem dispite a local well known nasty neighbour objecting. I understand the guidance is to propmote development at the moment to get the economy moving.
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I am right on border n one side is next county/council, if i add the extra 6 acres and its under a different council will it affect the permitted development ?
Dont think i will get it under normal planning - long story
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I have land on the Cheshire side and also Derbyshire side. My largest plot is Cheshire. As I am only 4.5 miles from the other farm, I have one holding number. So, assume its ok to class it as one acreage. County border is the farm next door - just two fields away.
Not sure what would happen if the other land was further off than where it is though.
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I have land on the Cheshire side and also Derbyshire side. My largest plot is Cheshire. As I am only 4.5 miles from the other farm, I have one holding number. So, assume its ok to class it as one acreage. County border is the farm next door - just two fields away.
Not sure what would happen if the other land was further off than where it is though.
Thanks for reply was not sure my property boundry is bang on border next field is next county/council
dont want to ask planning department anything just yet as they have not really been helpful
and are not keen on allowing residential accomodation
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I'm on holiday with my friends who are planning officers and they say that you don't have to own it but you need a formal agreement to rent the extra land for at least 7 years.
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I'm on holiday with my friends who are planning officers and they say that you don't have to own it but you need a formal agreement to rent the extra land for at least 7 years.
Thanks its good to know timescale required if push comes to shove i will buy the extra land
Opened a massive can of worms here its really going to be a struggle but i have had run ins before with councils and to be honest i aint biggest fan.
Last one was Tescos submitted plans to extend supermarket council never wrote to surronding properties first thing we knew , it was passed and they were building car park on my land.
Threats from Solicitors(supermarket)
Was nervous went to check on a bank holiday Monday and bull dozers were just about to knock fence down and help themselves i had a 3 year battle with them real sc-m bags
Council were scared sh-tless of them
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marc6 did you win against them stealing your land?
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The council as I understand it cannot refuse you a barn/building however they are allowed to dictate were it is sited, quite a few these days insist it goes on the rented land argh !!!!!
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Tesco backed down in the end but it did not stop them trying to grab it on the bank holiday.
Best news i heard was profit warning thing.
They spent millions£ on a couple of sites around here and they have been cancelled.
They started a small corner of the car park right up to the boundry of my property to stop planning lapsing but left it.
Sold off property they bought that they needed now imagine it wont go ahead now.
Total scum they are known for such bully boy tactics