The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Introduce yourself => Topic started by: lowlander on September 06, 2014, 01:12:57 pm
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Hi everyone. I have just moved back to Yorkshire after a 3 year break down in Wales and my partner and I have rented a farm with around 7.5 acres of grassland. We currently just have dogs (a lurcher, a collie and a Maremma - an Italian livestock guardian) but we are looking at getting some animals to help with the grass. The plan is not (yet) to operate a full small holding but to grow fruit/vegetables for ourselves, keep chickens for eggs and keep pet grass mowers! We may expand this in future but for now this is the plan.
In terms of facilities we have a small dutch barn (open at one end) and four stables plus a stable yard. The land has a gentle slope and is divided into 8 separate areas - 3 of these are decent grazing fields - the biggest a couple of acres, 4 rougher areas - lots of thistles, weeds as well as grass (2 well fenced, the others not so good) and one bit nearest the house that we intend to use for veggies. I work from home as a dog trainer so I also want to be able to use the tidier fields to work with dogs - so hopefully can rotate this with using them as grazing land.
We are hoping to foster a couple of donkeys soon and I am investigating sheep - looking at perhaps having a small flock of pet sheep - ideally pretty hardy ones that can be out most of the time? Any recommendations welcome! Looking forward to learning lots here. We are starting with very little knowledge so have everything to learn.
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Hi to you, we're in Moray.
When we started we thought we'd begin with sheep- but our fences were not good - as proved by a neighbours sheep coming through and eating our grass!
Talking with local farmer, he actually recommended starting with cattle - don't need such good fences, less likely to die for no good reason, less needy of treatment for feet rot, fly strike etc.
Having kept both sheep and cattle - I think I find cattle less trouble, though I expect this depends on the hardiness of the breed.
Good luck.
Sue
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Hello from Devon :wave: You have a place that many will envy. Shetland or Jacob sheep are friendly and hardy, in fact our Jacobs are over friendly.
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Hi from Caithness :wave:
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Hi
I'm in North Yorkshire. Whereabout are you? I have Muscovey ducks, geese, turkeys, hens, sheep and too many ponies (plus a Cleveland Bay) at the moment. ;D ;D
Don't believe donkeys are hardier than ponies and will eat thistles: they aren't and they don't (unless they're starving or they're cut ad dried). My sheep at the moment are North Country Mules and Texel crosses. They were hand reared commercial lambs and have wintered out in fairly bleak fields on the North York Moors without any problem and a little supplementary feed.
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Welcome from t'other side of the country - north Cumbria :wave: We're commercial (but traditional, low input) beef and sheep farmers, and I have a flock of 'fleece sheep' and a small herd of Jersey house cows 'on the side'.
Agree that donkeys are not very hardy. If you want hardy equines that will eat thistles, get a couple of Fell ponies. :hugpony:
Tiny paddocks sometimes mean no shelter though - are there hedgerows, trees etc to provide shelter in each paddock? And a water supply?
You shouldn't have any trouble sourcing sheep locally that can mow your grass, live out (provided shelter and water are accessible ;)) and grow you some meat, if that's what you want. Buying local types from a local farmer would be the best bet - they'll be used to the local ticks, etc, and it'll forge a connection with the local farming community too. There will be 'store lamb' sales ongoing at the moment; ask the nearest farmer that has healthy-looking sheep if s/he'd give you some advice on choosing?
If you're getting a couple of donkeys or ponies, and want some land for veg and chooks, then 15-20 sheep would probably be plenty. (I'm working on 2 acres per equine, 5 sheep per acre, as a rule of thumb.) Or if the equines are a 'next year' thing, get more sheep now that will finish before you want the donkeys/ponies to come, and that'll give you a bit of early income and some meat in your freezer.
It's Masham Sheep Fair at the end of the month - all the local and many rare/primitive breeds will be on show. Go and have a look-see and see what you like the look of, and talk to the sheep-keepers with them ;) I'll be there on the Sunday if you want to catch up for a chat.
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Hello and welcome :wave:
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Thank you all for the welcome and suggestions. We are just south of Dewsbury in West Yorkshire but I was born and bred in North Cumbria Sally - just outside Carlisle - and my parents still live there so I know that part of the world well. :)
The donkeys are more because we really like them than because they are hardy - we know they need shelter and decent grazing and they have already been allocated the long thin top field which is pretty decent pasture and leads directly into the yard and the barn (for summer and day time) and they'll be stabled overnight in winter.
All the fields all have at least two sides with hedgerows (mainly hawthorn) with stock fencing in front - three also have one side of wall - so there is shelter in all the fields for sheep but we could put up pallet barriers as well if needed. Water is more of a pain - we have a stream that runs along the bottom of the fields but the fields drop off quite steeply to it and it is hard to fence in securely on the opposite side - so it is actually fenced off from the main fields. There are two taps in the stable yard so at the moment the plan is to run hoses down to the top of the fields and fill water troughs from that. Otherwise we may need to use water tanks of some kind.
Hadn't really thought about cattle. Will look into that more. Sheep seemed to be more manageable and hardy - quite like the idea of Jacob or Shetland - though my partner's cousin farms sheep just over the pennines so he might be a sensible place to start.
Thanks for the headsup Sally about Masham - will definitely try to get along to that - would be a great way to check out the different breeds and work out what will be best for us. In the meantime think we had better get our CPH number sorted.
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:wave: and welcome from Caithness. Good time of year to be getting started. Not too much in the way of urgent jobs but plenty of time to make sure all the fences you need to be stock proof really are ;) And good time to be looking around at what's available and suitable stock wise. Good luck. Lots of great advice and support on here.
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:wave: and welcome from Shropshire.
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Hello! :wave:
Really good to know it is a good time to be getting started. It feels quite overwhelming as there is so much work to do around the place - overgrown fields, buildings and stables needing thorough cleans and repainting, lots of weeding, preparing veggie plot etc. But I think we will just do a little bit at a time. We are lucky that my partner works so we are not relying on any income from the place - it would be nice if eventually it could be self-supporting but we can take some time to get there.
I have checked most of the fencing - was the first thing I did because of our dogs. Our lurcher is an escape artist and I know there are at least two fields she hasn't managed to get out of so I doubt anything would. The rest all need a bit of attention - and we need to put in some extra stock fencing in places - so that is the priority.
Have discovered that cousin has Lonks - very hardy certainly but look big - I haven't seen anyone talk about them so am guessing they may not be suitable for a small holding.
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Lonks are now very rare, one of the big blackfaced hill breeds. I was given a very few locks of Lonk fleece recently - a treat.
No reason you shouldn't have Lonks as your sheep. And if your cousin has them, you've a ready source of sheep, advice and knowledge. (And tupping, if you decided you wanted to have ewes and breed them.)
You could get a few wethers off your cousin, rear them to fat size and sell / butcher them. Then decide if you want more Lonks or something different.
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:wave: only 10 mins away from Dewsbury :)
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Hello & Welcome I am a wannabeeeee :wave:
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Thanks Sally - great to know they would be suitable. We will get in touch and see what he thinks.
Sophie - am guessing from your user name that you are in Leeds? Lived in and around there for 10 years (Headingley, Roundhay, Barwick) before going down to Wales for a few years. Very glad to be back in Yorkshire - feels like home. :)Have seen your intro - you have quite a collection of animals - and Caucasian Shepherds! Beautiful dogs. I have Maremmas - well just one at the moment - but have had them for over 20 years and bred a couple of litters. Our current boy is 9 and from our last litter. Trouble has always been finding appropriate homes for them of course - not a breed for everyone. I guess it is the same with the Caucasians!
Hi benandjerry - thanks for the welcome - I'm still a wannabee really - but one step closer to the dream. :)
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I googled Maremmas as it's not a breed I've come across. Lovely looking dogs.
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Sophie - am guessing from your user name that you are in Leeds? Lived in and around there for 10 years (Headingley, Roundhay, Barwick) before going down to Wales for a few years. Very glad to be back in Yorkshire - feels like home. :)Have seen your intro - you have quite a collection of animals - and Caucasian Shepherds! Beautiful dogs. I have Maremmas - well just one at the moment - but have had them for over 20 years and bred a couple of litters. Our current boy is 9 and from our last litter. Trouble has always been finding appropriate homes for them of course - not a breed for everyone. I guess it is the same with the Caucasians!
Yes inbetween Pudsey and Tong ;D
Can't beat Yorkshire :) Yes got quite a lot in at the moment and lots of babies about which is lovely!
The Caucasians are beautiful, but definetely not for the faint hearted ;D Maremmas are gorgeous! Do you use them as working LSDs or just pets? Are you not breeding any more? Yes agree totally they are not a breed for everyone (same with all LSD's I think!).. we have to watch who the caucasians go to- need plenty of land, a firm hand and somewhere where their guarding and barking wont upset people! Put a picture of our youngest female Mir learning the ropes when she was 6 months... excuse her coat- hard to keep clean in the pig pens! ;D
Do you have any photo's of past/present Maremmas?
Donkeys are horrible grumpy creatures, don't go down that route ;) We keep Herdwick sheep which live out year round and need no interference whatsoever with the exception of worming etc.. may be worth looking into?
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:wave:
Hello!
We are in East Yorkshire (but hoping to move to North Lincs...)
We have goats (angoras, boers, golden guernseys and (soon) bagots), 2 geese, 2 rabbits 4 dogs and a welsh pony.
Welcome from further east on M62
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Thanks again for the welcomes - and hello!
Have never had the opportunity to work the Maremmas - they have just been companions - but who knows in future? My last litter was 9 years ago - will never say never but would need to find a really good female and a decent stud dog. Currently very little choice in the UK - last female came from Italy and was a complete joy - but an expensive thing to do and don't see us doing it again. So will have to wait and see.
Attaching a photo of my Italian girl and my older bitch - both sadly dead now - the pup is the sister of my current boy who belongs to a friend but was never bred from - and one of our boy.
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Lovely looking dogs and that pup looks like a little lamb :thumbsup:
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Hello and welcome from Skipton, North Yorks :wave:
Go see lots of different sheep and see which you like best. We have a but of a variety but mainly texels and Texel x's
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Hello and welcome from near Durham :wave:
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Hi
From South leeds currently trying to source a small plot of land/woodland close to home for rearing pigs probably OSB's
I also work in wetherby so looking up there aswell but would then still have to travel on my days off to tend to my pigs!
Anyone know what I should be paying to rent some land/woodland per acre
Thanks in advance
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Hi
we are in East Yorkshire but originally from Leeds. I breed Ryeland sheep both white and coloured and they make fab pets / lawnmowers. Very friendly and placid. I did breed Dexter cows for a while but my experience has been that sheep are far easier on the pasture, the fences and the pocket as well as being easy to handle.
I also breed Croad langshan bantams which are another quiet, laid back breed that dont destroy the garden.
I used to work at the rare breeds farm at Temple Newsam many years ago and looked after pigs, milking goats, sheep, cattle horses, turkeys, chickens, ducks and doves. It's changed a bit since then but its not a bad idea to visit and find out about the different rare breeds before you buy.
I have a friend who breeds donkeys and highland cattle which are also good natured grass cutters.
Good luck
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Donkeys are horrible grumpy creatures, don't go down that route ;) We keep Herdwick sheep which live out year round and need no interference whatsoever with the exception of worming etc.. may be worth looking into?
Donkeys are most certainly not horrible or grumpy under normal circumstances. ???
Their natural disposition is to be friendly, trustful and forgiving and it takes an awful lot of abuse of their good nature to make them anything else. And even then, when treated kindly they will forgive a lot of ill treatment.
I live near Selby - not a million miles from you - and you're welcome, if you're in the area, to come and see what donkeys are really like. :hshoe:
:bouquet:
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Donkeys are horrible grumpy creatures, don't go down that route ;) We keep Herdwick sheep which live out year round and need no interference whatsoever with the exception of worming etc.. may be worth looking into?
Donkeys are most certainly not horrible or grumpy under normal circumstances. ???
Their natural disposition is to be friendly, trustful and forgiving and it takes an awful lot of abuse of their good nature to make them anything else. And even then, when treated kindly they will forgive a lot of ill treatment.
I live near Selby - not a million miles from you - and you're welcome, if you're in the area, to come and see what donkeys are really like. :hshoe:
:bouquet:
As is usual with text, you've read the meaning of what I wrote wrongly... That's why I followed it with a wink.
I also do not, and will not ever abuse animals- and feel quite upset by what you're implying.
Glad you enjoy your donkeys.
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Wind your neck in Sophie :innocent: - I'm not in any way suggesting that you have been mistreating donkeys!
I took it that you had met some that appeared to be grumpy etc, and didn't want people on here who are not aquainted with donkeys, to think that that was in any way the norm.