The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: mab on August 13, 2014, 09:31:47 pm
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hello all,
sorry if this has been asked before but I didn't find the answer with a search so:
Following a moderate/high FEC My vet has supplied Combinex wormer drench. I did ask her when I should move them to new pasture, but she wasn't sure at that time, so left a note with the wormer for when I collected it:- ' No need to remove them from their current pasture'.
I've downloaded the combinex datasheet and can't find any info on this either - so does this mean that Combinex actually kills all the worms in the sheep long enough for the eggs in the pasture to die off? I have my doubts.
given that I got my neighbours cattle off the big field anyway on the assumption that they'd have to go in there following worming, should I move the sheep in anyway (and when?)? or am I supposed to leave them on the 'contaminated' pasture?
thx
m
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Put back onto contaminated pasture for a couple of days then move .... am amazed your vet couldn't tell you this .... very important in fight against resistant worm apparently
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Have a look at scops, this is the most up to date thinking on parasite control.
Nowadays, they recommend managing pasture carefully, using cleaner pastures for lambs, etc, but in order to slow the worms development oc resistance, they recommend worming and turning out on dirty pasture. The wormer can only kill what worms are inside the sheep, excluding any resistant worms. Any resistant worms will then produce eggs that pass out onto the pasture. There will be eggs of worms that were killed by the wormer already on the pasture, so the sheep will take in a load of eggs from these susceptible worms as well if they stay on the dirty pasture. Because the worms have to put 'energy' into being resistant, the ones that aren't will beat them when growing inside the sheep, and over time, there will be a number of worms inside the sheep again, but again will mostly be susceptible to wormer.
If they went on clean pasture, the only eggs they eat are resistant to wormer, so when they grow up inside the sheep, wormers wont work!
Hope that's clearer than the mud i think i made it into, but leaving them where they are is a very sensible option.
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Thanks.
OK, I think I understand - I see that they should stay where they are for a short while, but presumably not too long?
looking at the scops:
Treat them a few days before moving (leaving them on the old pasture during that time)[/size][size=0.875em]OR[/size]
[/size]Leave a small number (10%) of the sheep untreated[/color]
just to confuse the issue, either the vet didn't give me enough or my syringe is poorly calibrated as I didn't have enough to do the last ewe (fatty). I was going to get some more tomorrow but I could leaver her as the 10% of my 12 sheep (she's probably nearer 15% by weight though). As scope say OR I suppose that means I should move them fairly quickly if I don't treat her?
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if she's fat & not scoury then no need to worm her. However I take it you've got a fluke problem also if your using combinex rather than a straight wormer? in which case she may well need dosed
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think I'm going to stop using the quote feature on this forum, I swear it doesn't do what it's supposed to >:(
the bit above the 'quote' is from scops; the bit in the quote is me.
Oh, Farmvet you posted whilst I was typing this; Yes she's very fat and not scoury. The vet didn't mention flukes but then I understand they don't show up on normal FECs. But this is a flukey area I believe (wet, clay, lots & lots of slugs & snails). I suppose I'd better revert to plan A then and get fatty a dose tomorrow.
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does this mean that Combinex actually kills all the worms in the sheep long enough for the eggs in the pasture to die off?
Nope.
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Mab, I had a similar question recently. I was told keep on the contaminated pasture for 48hours and then move onto clean. Leave the contaminated pasture for 6 weeks before putting sheep back on there.
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I worm lambs, leave them on the original field for 24 hours than put them onto the aftermath grazing once the hay is in. As this hasn't been grazed for around 5 months I consider it semi-clean (or semi-dirty). Ewes are wormed pre-tupping, if scouring, but this hasn't happened for several years. They're then wormed after lambing, 24 hours before moving from mothering up pen to nursery shed, so hopefully leaving resistant worms in the bedding, which is then put on the muckheap and left for a year. Had FECs done on the lambs for a couple of years but nothing showed up. Don't think that means the sheep haven't any, but maybe low numbers ....?
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Don't understand what you mean there MF surely the resistant worms would still be tucked up safe inside the ewes and not in the bedding?
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I've read that ewes and new lambs should be put out onto 'clean' grazing that hasn't been grazed in the second half (since July) of the previous year.
Surely if a field hasn't been grazed after hay is cut until March the grass will be really long and tough? Or am I missing something?
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I was thinking that too DW - It may work for the big flat farms that can hay/ silage until the end of the year but if your land's too steep, the only practical way to keep it under control is to graze (or mow manually).
Hi Bionic - that does seem to be the right course of action - I just wish I could find a vet who knows about these things (This is the 2nd one I've registered with since moving here). I actually remember asking the vet about a strategy for worm control (and vac's) some time ago but the best I got was to do FEC and treat when they come out high. Mind you this is the vets who told me I needed to Heptavac ewes 6 wks before tupping; maybe it's time to try vets no. 3.
With hindsight I should have followed a pattern similar to what MF has described - i didn't worm the ewes after lambing (but I did do a FEC shortly after putting them out - which was ~zero, like the last worm count). TBH I realise now that I've been a bit lackadaisical about rotational worm-control grazing - partly due to a shortage of sheep-proof dividing fences and partly a false sense of security from the zero count FECs. And it's caught up with me now.
I think I need to upgrade to a decent electric fence system for strip grazing...
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One of the vets at the practice I go to has a particular interest in worms. Every so often she arranges talks on the subject which are free to attend. I have no hesitation in ringing to ask questions. :thumbsup:
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I wonder if I'm in the area her practice covers... ;D
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DW - I think what they mean is that you should try not to graze young lambs i.e up to 8 weeks on ground that has seen the same the year before. It's ok if its been older sheep I think. My vet told me to rotate the lambing fields anyway.
I worm and leave on pasture for 48 hours. And then put out onto new pasture. Leave for 6 weeks etc.