The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: gracy on June 25, 2014, 12:13:37 pm
-
Hi i am just setting up a small scale meet chook unit and am curently designing the accomadation. as we will be hatching in batches and there is no electrisity where we live i shall have to have 3/4 broody hens sitting at the same time. I was thinking of putting 4 nest boxes side by side partition walls and a gate on the front of each box to stop them from stealing each others eggs. there would also be a 'dining area' inside the broody coup. I would let them out into the dining area 1 at a time in fine wether they could even go outside for a while before going back to their 'cell'.
Would this work? i know the 1 in 1 out system is going to be labour intensive but it would prevent squables over eggs... I have a large barn for them all to move to once all the chicks are hatched . just trying to avoid the dreaded squashed chick senario
-
It all sounds mighty complex - don't know whether broodies will be that compliant? How are you going to 'make' them go broody to order? I've got eleven hens, the vast majority Orpingtons (renowned at going broody), and only two have gone broody this season (one ironically had to be dissuaded because I needed her eggs for hatching). When they're siting I have them in a little run that they use with the chicks after hatching. I think your system would work but some breeds like to choose when they take themselves off the nest, don't they?
-
I was thinking of moving them into the broody coup 2 weeks before the hatching eggs arive but leave gates open & let them lay to their harts content (redistribute eggs if nessersery to get even number accross nests) most broody types should get the hint with 14 eggs on the nest or so im told then the day before the hatching eggs arrive (or as soon as they start to sit) shut the gates. im not going to bother with crock eggs as the light susex cross i have at the mo could tell and would duitfuly lay then throw the croc one out!
Im new to brooding but i dont have any other choice, to get conected to the grid we have to pay out for a pylon to be errected between us and the nearest elcy point! so defo no incubator.
I was also hoping to releve owners of hens that were broody silly (for cash of corse) ones that have had to be encoraged off the nest before, rather than rely on breed type.
How many chooks do you have to your run and how close are they? i devised this rather complex jail coup because of all the warning ive read about having 2 broodys in close proximity.
-
I think your fall-down point will be finding the broodies, and keeping them broody once they've been moved. We have the occasional hen which goes broody, in fact we have one at the moment sitting on eggs to replenish our stock after a fox attack. When they go broody is just chance, and the only thing which makes a broody hen is that an ordinary hen has gone broody. The rest of the year she will be a normal hen, laying her eggs, moulting, doing all the things a hen does. So how many hens would you need to keep in order to have four sitting at any one time? Or is the plan to hand the hens back to their owners once they've raised their chicks?
I'm all for natural raising of chicks under a hen but I really can't see you being able to set up a reliable production line that way.
Surely there are battery powered incubators? Batteries would definitely work for broody coop heat lamps too.
-
Hi flice its a good idea .I used to breed the broodies one year.
silkies wyndots etc .I then got green tomato boxes as the birds go broode I would move them into the tomarto boxes at night .Then false eggs in the nest when I had five full . I would put proper sex linkt eggs in the incubater .when they hatched I would put the hens under the broodies .The best thing they all share the chicks .Then another 5 .you can get crosses with double laying geens in .leg bars Silki Sussex sex linkt .You onley have hen chicks.It is a positive way to breed hens ..iff you was near I would provide the chicks for you .I've got some supper leg bars at the moment good egg strain bantam size big eggs .Next blue marran cuckoo Marian dark egg strain sex linkt .I'm not doing no think my self just naw .just for the estate up the road.
-
We have a mix of eggs under broodys, chicks under broodys and incubator chicks and it is all beginning to get a bit frayed at the edges re: accommodation at the moment!! ::) ::)
I think I'm becoming broody myself as I find myself hinting with OH to "just have one last clutch of legbars in the incy for the year".
I have made a broody coop in accordance with Michael Robert's coop in his book "Making mobile hen houses" which is fine for one hen and several chicks as long as you are already a fairly confident "knocker-upper"..... they are easy to make and I plan to make five or six in time for next year and put one hen in each.
As the chicks grow we feed then into a bigger coop and as they mature we feed them into bigger groups and bigger houses. When they will have formed a little "gang" we feed them into the main coop at the end of the autumn. You can make the coop without electricity.
-
I was under the impresion that certain hens (not breeds but individuals) regularly go broody i read a post on here where someone had a hen sitting on her 4th clutch..... I was going to purchace 4 hens outright and try and provoke their broody instinct by leving them with their eggs (i have a flock of egg layers so i dont need the broody eggs) in a suitable coup then place the hatching eggs under them once they are sitting tight. i can only order a minimum 30 sasso eggs at a time and they have a 4 week from order to delivery so i dont want to start too early otherwise the hens will be worn out before the eggs arive but at the same time i cant delay arrival if the hens arnt in the mood. weve had suposed trickle charge bateries before but the solarpannels didnt charge the batery properly and it died I'd hate to loose the entire clutch because of a batery failure....
Given what you have said about timing the sitting If one of the hens gave up mid sit but was incarcerated would she stay on the eggs or would she trash them in an attempt to leve?
-
The latter, I think!
-
Ooops, typed a whole reply to this earlier which seems to have disappeared. I don't know whether your plan is going to work. How are you going to be sure the only four hens you get love to be broody? And even if they are natural broodies, there is no guarantee they'll all go broody at the same time - exactly when you want them too. I don't always collect the eggs from my layers promptly and so there's often a clutch of eight sitting there and not one of them has shown any signs of wanting to brood them - and they include two Orpington and a Light Sussex who are both supposed to be a broody breed. Equally I have a buff Orp who has gone broody again on the basis of one egg which has been removed so she's sitting on nothing. And yes, some will sit beautifully for as long as you want, hatch and mother wonderfully. But you also get some that like to brood but not to mother, some that get bored halfway through and eat the eggs, some that freak out when they're hatching and kill the chicks etc. etc. You really can't guarantee it.
Why can you only order so many and why so much notice? I send out hatching eggs and I'll happily do half a dozen and send them out as soon as I've collected them. I'm sure you can get good meat birds that don't have to have a minimum order of 30 and a lead time of a month - that just seems ridiculous.
When are you planning to start? You know we're getting close to the end of the breeding season for this year? I'm sure birds do go broody into July but not as many and after that you may well be hitting moult?
Are you hoping to make money out of this or is it just for a few chickens for the freezer for yourselves? Because it's hard to see how you can make it make sense financially with that leadtime on eggs and the variability of broodies. You'd be far better off finding a flexible supply option and waiting until they go broody naturally.
-
Yes - I agree with Hester F. The first thing we did when we wanted to up our game with chicks was to buy an incy. Broody hens are all very well but they are not the most reliable. I would be very interested in getting hold of Sasso hatching eggs though... Have PM'd you.
-
I tend to agree with the sentiments of the others. It might prove difficult to get the hens to brood when you like. I have a broody who hid a nest in some nettles and she has been diligently sitting for over a week. My other broody was in the nest box, she sat for 5 days then got up and didn't go back, her eggs are now in the incubator.
-
Basicaly i am a subsistance farmer and i cant afford to buy meet regularly. I worked out that with a feed conversion rate of 2.2 and a maturing time of 10 weeks I can just afford to raise 60 sasso C451 but the only place in england i have been able to find willing to deliver to the highlands orders the eggs in from france hence the wait and 30 eggs is the minimum to make the postage value for money.
i have to get a 2.5 - 3 kg chook out of 6 kg of feed so i cant get any old egg. thanks for the offer though.
-
Have you factored in the decline in fertility over time? Even fresh eggs are rarely 100% fertile but it starts to drop off with time so I'd never set eggs that are over two weeks old. Have you checked how old your eggs will be by the time they've gone from France to somewhere in the UK and then up to you? Just make sure you include in your calculations the likely infertility and mortality rates - especially if the eggs are coming from that far away. It sounds like you've got everything very finely balanced financially.
Also bear in mind that if it's that critical that the birds have no more than 6kg of food each, there must be no wastage at all. No scratching it out of the bowl onto the floor to be mixed up with bedding, no wild birds or other fauna eating it.
-
Thanks for your concern Hester F I've figured we can sustain a 50% combined infertility/mortality rate before we go over buget. If I can keep it down around 30% i will have saved enough to buy red meet once a quarter. :excited:
Thanks for the tip on the 2 week decline will check with my suppyer
Im not ready to get the broodys just yet will be starting march next year :fc: wanted to get expert oppinions on coup design etc before i build the bloody thing....
:idea: we have bottled gass so hot water is not a problem if one of the broodys turns out to be a good sitter but a bad mother would a hot water bottle in the corner of the nest suffice? Ive reared baby hedgehogs that way but then they lay on top of the bottle would baby chicks burrow under?
-
Some broodies may sit 4 clutches in a year but some don't.
I think I understand what you are trying to achieve but think hatching under broody hens is unreliable and your venture may not be successful if you are working to very tight figures/percentages. Even really good broody hens are just that .... not hatching 'machines'.
If a hen decides not to sit she will not in my opinion change her mind if you lock her in a box. She will probably get quite distressed and break the eggs in an attempt to escape from her 'cell' as you put it.
I think your broody hens should have access to their food and water at all times ..... did I understand correctly that they would only go into the 'dining area' when you opened the door at a certain point in the day?
A broody usually likes to go into the run or at least well away from her nest to empty herself too. Often when she is lifted off for food and water but sometimes when she feels like it.
Think your broody hens would be denied certain 'freedoms' ..... if I have understood your proposed system correctly ..... that you are not allowed legally to deny. :(
Sorry if I have not understood properly ..... it is easy to do that on here sometimes.
-
Well I've just hatched some these 4 days to arrive 38 eggs .and hatched to day 4 chicks so I paid 32 pound for the eggs so about 8 pound a chick .Big chickin in asda 4 pound not good farming? You would go bust on this cari on.
-
Hi in the hills
The chooks were always going to have access to water within their cells. It was the food that was going to be restricted to the dining area with regards to the 5 legal freadoms i think they are all covered if your worried about hunger i can easily addapt the design to have the food in the cells , concerns like this was the reason i wanted to discus the design with 'those who knew'. unless its raining the broodys will have access to the out doors when they are let out for their feed. and the dining area should hopefuly have enogh space for them to streach their legs, do their buisnes if its tipping it down. I am following all the minimum space requirements with the exception of giving them a nest box each (still cant beleive it is 1 nest/7 birds !).
Its all verry well saying use an incy but i have looked i cant find one designed for batery power. Im trying to make the best of a bad lot.
Victorian farmer your last pot was a little confusing are you saying 38 hatched but only 4 survived or that 38 were set and only 4 hatched also were you using broodys?
Suzzieque what is your succes rate with the broodys, I apreciate you are letting them brood when they want.....
I am not trying to turn the birds into hatching macheens they will only raise 2 cluches a year. I just want to time those clutches to egg availability.
(the only other option for the sasso btw was live chicks which once delivery was taken into account would cost £2.60 a chick!)
-
The problem about having food and water too close by when the hen is broody is that it enables her to stay on the nest and not get up to find food or drink. Then what happens is that she either gets very constipated or she messes the nest and eggs which can be an infection risk so I agree with your plan about getting them off the next once a day to go and feed, do their business and have a leg stretch.
My only two concerns are:
1. It's doubtful that you will get four hens going broody all at the same time - as has already been referred to and
2. What will happen when once the chicks are hatched? Will all the Mums be in the same area? because if they are - they are likely to fight and the chicks could come off worse.
Also - I can sort of understand needing to wait 30 days from order for day old chicks as it sounds like they would incubate a clutch to order for you….. but how come that translates into 30 days waiting for eggs - when the eggs are not going to need to be incubated for three weeks prior?
Maybe an option would be to get them to send you nine Sasso eggs once you have a broody that's sitting tight. That way you can time the eggs to the broody. It's still not a failsafe option. In my experience it only seems to work half the time but then - we have had accommodation problems this year which won't be repeated next year…. and we made the mistake of letting a broody sit on one egg whilst we were getting the hatching eggs that we wanted so when thy arrived - she only accepted one egg to sit on from the imported clutch - hence an emergency trip to Wynnstay one Sunday morning to purchase an incy.
This thread reminds me of the Dutch polder model of political decision making - keep talking and the solutions might slowly emerge :D :D
-
I think it depends on how essential it is to rear 2 clutches per year under each broody. I would much rather hatch under broodys than in our inccie but think you have to do it in a flexible manner.
We have pekins. They can only cover a few eggs per clutch but are brill broodys and mums however you still couldn't say with certainty that each of the broodys would sit 2 clutches per year. They may only go broody once in a year, not at all or just sit for a couple of days and change their minds.
Nothing wrong with hatching under broodys, understand you have no leccie but not sure that you will get the regimented sitting that I think you're talking about. There is quite a lot of 'unpredictability' ...... as long as that can be catered for financially and wouldn't cause a problem to you .....?
If you have a barn, is it not possible to make each broody a basic, rat proof, simple coop, with box and run. She could then have complete freedom to food, water, exercise, pooping away from her nest and safe place to rear her chicks away from other hens. (We have 3 mums at the moment and they will attack any hen that goes near their chicks .... we have to supervise their bit of free ranging as they really do 'fight' if another hen ventures near).