The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Growing => Vegetables => Topic started by: cloddopper on June 02, 2014, 10:06:28 pm
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I have sown eight square feet of carrots ' 16 seeds to the sq ft so far this year on 5 April ( edit ...sorry 5th May 2014. ( ...Thanks for pointing it out MGW )
It's only today that I have found any evidence of them germinating with a little grid pattern of 3 mm long green carrot seedling emerging .
That's 27 days germination to 3 mm tall , usually my carrots have reached 3 mm tall by about day 19. Has any one else experienced later than usual for germinations of their carrots or any other seeds being late for that matter of fact ?
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I germinated my carrots in small cells in the greenhouse then planted them out about 3 weeks ago, they are not growing very quickly. I am also struggling with broad beans, but I think that might be due to field voles rather than failure of germination. We are in South Devon.
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Cloddopper, my maths might be wrong but surely 5th April to today is nearly two months or around 57 days? That is a very long time to germinate.
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I've had quite the opposite experience this year with carrot germination. I usually grow carrots in the polytunnel , mostly in some sort of container to help keep the carrot flies off. This year we have built our first outdoor raised bed so I don't have to bend so much, and I planted it with strawberries, onions, beetroot, parsnips with radish, and carrots. I have had great germination with all the seeds - and of course the weeds :(. I had sown the carrots in a wide strip (no idea how many to the square foot) and they all germinated after 2 weeks and now have their first true leaves. The parsnips were up within a month too (I marked the strip with radishes which I need to pull out now).
So for me this has been an excellent year for germination :garden:
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My first lot were sown at about the same time as yours and were slow but are now a couple of inches high. Second lot were about a month later and are just showing (with gaps but I always get gaps with carrots, however thickly I sow). I saved a whole load of sunflower seeds last year from my most beautiful flower and planted loads of them. I thought they were taking a long time to come up until I realised the crows were nipping them off. They've also pulled up and chewed every single sweetcorn plant (40 in total) and most of the pumpkins, squashes and gourds. My best ever plants, sturdy looking creatures, in the middle of the chicken run so safe from the badger and slugs (and fenced from the chickens and ducks). So instead the crows have ruined the lot. Had somebody over yesterday to shoot them but they're canny and he only managed one. I've hung it up in triumph and so far they're steering clear and the chicken food seems to be going a lot further! Sorry, that was a bit of diversion into crow rant.
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I've sown 4 rows of carrots so far.. 20 yards each.. first over 2 months ago and then roughy every 2-3 weeks... non up at all. First parsnip seeds took over 6 weeks to come up and a second lot sown 2 weeks later about the same... third and fourth rows of those show no sign after 4-6 weeks either. Swede however popped up in a week.
I put a whol series of flowers into the veggie patch last week.. we;ll see how all those varieties do.
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...just come back from moving the cade lambs and it looks like a few of the first carrot sowing are finally coming up..was sown thinly and so far really really thin....
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I went to pull some radishes for lunch today but they were horrible, full of little brown worm holes. Does this mean I can expect my carrots and parsnips to be wasted too, or will it be different beasties?
Does anyone know at what size of seedlings carrot root flies will lay their eggs? I thought my high raised bed would be tall enough to prevent carrot root flies from getting to them, so I didn't cover them. Am I too late to cover them now with insect mesh or are they already a lost cause? They are between 1" and 3" tall with a couple of true leaves, and the parsnips are smaller with just one true leaf.
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I can not imagine how you can count 16 seeds - I can barely see the row I am planting in ;D . Actually I have taken to do as my neighbours and just sprinkle away and plant seed by the packet. I just thin out the early crop ( we are eating the little finger size thinners now). The main crop will be harvested in autumn and will not be thinned ( they will be our winter store / winter food).
Peas and carrots are a popular food here and sold in jars and tins. packet seed tells you when to plant the seed to harvest "carrots and peas". So June/July is peak season for peas although we did have our first peas tonight.
Tip - take a bottle of water to wet your carrots before wiggeling them and pulling them. They are then easy to pull and rarely break. Main crop are dug up of course.
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I can not imagine how you can count 16 seeds - I can barely see the row I am planting in ;D . Actually I have taken to do as my neighbours and just sprinkle away and plant seed by the packet. I just thin out the early crop ( we are eating the little finger size thinners now). The main crop will be harvested in autumn and will not be thinned ( they will be our winter store / winter food).
Peas and carrots are a popular food here and sold in jars and tins. packet seed tells you when to plant the seed to harvest "carrots and peas". So June/July is peak season for peas although we did have our first peas tonight.
Tip - take a bottle of water to wet your carrots before wiggeling them and pulling them. They are then easy to pull and rarely break. Main crop are dug up of course.
I sow & plant in square feet squares . I have made four sowing grids/masks in 5 mm thick clear Perspex & chamfered the holes so that there is no interfering burr to obstruct any seeds so I can simply lay on the grid on the square that gives me the spacing's I want .. I then sprinkle a few seeds on the plastic then steer two down each hole starting at the top left and working down the grid moving in a flowing zig zag from the left side to right side .( having a rigid sequence helps stop me missing holes or triple sowing etc.
As soon as the square is sown it gets a long white plastic seed label with the square's contents written on it in soft 4b lead pencil .
When the seeds emerge if there are two or more I used a pair of scissors to snip the weaker ones off, leaving the best to grow on rather than disturbing the roots s and attracting various pests that feast on or in disturbed plants that are damaged or in the pulled out areas .
All snip off's are put in the compost bin as soon as the square has its " hair cut" and buried under the compost . Annual weeds get the same snip off treatment, any perennial weeds get an additional spot of round up on the cut .
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I went to pull some radishes for lunch today but they were horrible, full of little brown worm holes. Does this mean I can expect my carrots and parsnips to be wasted too, or will it be different beasties?
Does anyone know at what size of seedlings carrot root flies will lay their eggs? I thought my high raised bed would be tall enough to prevent carrot root flies from getting to them, so I didn't cover them. Am I too late to cover them now with insect mesh or are they already a lost cause? They are between 1" and 3" tall with a couple of true leaves, and the parsnips are smaller with just one true leaf.
Put a fleece on the bed as soon as it is sown .carrot flies fly at least 1.200 high for I made a 400 mm high enclosure to sit on a 9 square foot raised bed that was 900 mm high .
WRT sowing too thickly & having to thin them out thus attracting pest to the scent of disturbed carrot tops or pulled roots & holding back the carrot growth for a couple of days or more .
Apparently mixing a teaspoon of pure wood ash from clean untreated wood helps.
Do it as follows ...
mix 1 reaspoon of dry ash to 1/4 teaspoon of carrot seed in a large spray can cap or similar and sprinkle sow it between your index finger & thumb along the 10 mm deep drills ( It helps the poor of sight if you run a white line along the drill line so you can easily see it) or it can be done using a folded sheet of thick lining paper as a distribution chute to slide seeds along a drill on the drill .
Having the white ash with the seeds also helps you see where you have sown and where to gently cover over with sieved soil or use a good 2" paint brush on a stick to gently sweep some soil over the sown drill .
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<< Put a fleece on the bed as soon as it is sown .carrot flies fly at least 1.200 high for I made a 400 mm high enclosure to sit on a 9 square foot raised bed that was 900 mm high .>>
But I didn't do it at the right time clodopper, so I'm wondering if it's too late now. Silly me with the height for carrot flies - I thought it was 18" :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot:
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I prefer to grow my radish in the greenhouse border edge..just hort lengths sown every weekish - fast short lived crops of plump roots. Outdoors they grow slowly and woody here.
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Clodhopper - why do you sow in square feet. are you making a specific study or do you find you get a better crop?
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"Silly me with the height for carrot flies - I thought it was 18" "
The carrot fly tends to fly low to the ground and it is generally accepted that an 18 inch barrier will deter them. However it is easier to cover the whole crop with a loose fitting fleece which leaves room for the crop to grow.
Radish belong to the cabbage family and will not be tunneled by the carrot root fly larvae. However the cabbage root fly larvae are quite at home in a radish. Dont follow radish with cabbage as the cabbage root fly can decimate a cabbage crop if left untreated.
Regen
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Clodhopper - why do you sow in square feet. are you making a specific study or do you find you get a better crop?
I practice a way of gardening called " All New Square Foot Gardening " ( ANSFG ) I have disability problems that make bending painful and likely to harm me further.
My beds are made of 900 mm high mortared engineering bricks each bed area is around 9 sq feet . Each set of beds is in a six long block .
I use the masks because I have peripheral neuropathy pain in arms legs toes fingers etc . half the time I can't feel if I have a seed ( I can just about feel a beetroot seed) in my fingers so tipping one or two on a surface such as on the mask means I can see it and slide the seed down the planting hole.
The best thing about the raised beds & ANSFG is that I can have wheel chair accessible paths all round the blocks of beds that is weed free as my paths are made of 3" thick cast concrete .
The weed growing area in the beds is much reduced so I have far less weed to contend with .
I fill my beds with a non soil growth medium , made of peat ot coir waste , vermiculite and animals dung c/w beddings and all manner of veg & plant 7 all manner of household rot-able waste ,.as well as the odd bale of wet straw . ( it is composted as per the 18 day Berkley hot composting method ) because fo the hot composting method i use there is very very few weed seeds or growth nodes left alive to germinate /grow . The vermiculite helps keep the moisture level stable and holds the liquefied nutrients that come as a result of the decaying matter in readiness for the plant hair roots to take up .
The initial hard work setting things up was hard for me, but now it's up & running means I should be able to garden and enjoy it for another 20 years or so before my birth certificate runs out.
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Cloddopper your garden sounds amazing. Pictures please :thumbsup:
I harvested my first carrots today :yum: .
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I have sown the same 2 rows of carrots in my poly tunnel 3 times now starting in april and have just seen 3 seedlings about an inch high!!! I had carrots coming out of my ears last year although germination wasnt goo and took a couple of sowings even then!!
I dont know whether to discard the seeds and buy new packets and try again ?
Caracroft ???
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I sowed 2x 20metre rows.. about 1 month apart ..both germinated but slowly and wth a lot of gaps - I had sown very thinly this year too. It's also been very dry and that is challenging for me to water as much as I'd like.
According to my reading carrots don't like to be too hot for geminating either so after the last 2 day's rain here I've just taken the opportuniy to stick another row in - actually a triple 6/7yard row on the end of the pumpkin aisle..
(more brassica seedlings went in today too)
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Sorry clodhoppers but I have had a few days away and agree that your garden sounds great. I guess you have also demonstrated that you have to do so much more planning and hardworking compared to us able body types who just plod a row , scatter seed and hope for the best.
Bye the bye - mice have worked their way along my rows of carrots so I have had to harvest and freeze those they left. The rabbits did benefit from half eaten carrots and the tops. :o
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Front garden this time last year ..we are about three weeks behind for this year .(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/splodgit/IMG_4625_zpse8c82f03.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/splodgit/media/IMG_4625_zpse8c82f03.jpg.html)
The onion bed , onions now lifted 10 days ago and in now plaits hanging under the log cabin veranda
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/splodgit/IMG_5319_zpsffc457a0.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/splodgit/media/IMG_5319_zpsffc457a0.jpg.html)
The broad beans are about three feet tall and have loads of 7 inch pods .hopefully they will be harvestable before we go on holiday .
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/splodgit/IMG_5321_zpsa03f3b14.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/splodgit/media/IMG_5321_zpsa03f3b14.jpg.html)
cast iron herb bed (http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/splodgit/IMG_5326_zps55486746.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/splodgit/media/IMG_5326_zps55486746.jpg.html)
Comfrey Hedge harvested three days ago ..for me to eat & drink , , the compost heap as it makes a fantastic trace element source and a friends animals as it is a conditioner & cheap feed in the harvesting period that all of them love.
final stage of the landscaping completed about three weeks ago .... found a decent brickie & his labourer brother who was not a con man .
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/splodgit/IMG_5335_zps898c1ebb.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/splodgit/media/IMG_5335_zps898c1ebb.jpg.html)
This is the view & picture the brickie took from the log cabin roof to give a rough idea of how it's done .(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/splodgit/IMG_5339_zps93df489f.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/splodgit/media/IMG_5339_zps93df489f.jpg.html)
You wouldn't recognise this bed today there is very little free space in nit.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b597/splodgit/IMG_5340_zpsabc77735.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/splodgit/media/IMG_5340_zpsabc77735.jpg.html)
The new beds have been filled with loads of tomatoes , some water melons and some site members perennial kale cuttings which are not quite rooted w enough to post ( checked one this evening .)
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"Silly me with the height for carrot flies - I thought it was 18" "
The carrot fly tends to fly low to the ground and it is generally accepted that an 18 inch barrier will deter them. However it is easier to cover the whole crop with a loose fitting fleece which leaves room for the crop to grow.
Radish belong to the cabbage family and will not be tunneled by the carrot root fly larvae. However the cabbage root fly larvae are quite at home in a radish. Dont follow radish with cabbage as the cabbage root fly can decimate a cabbage crop if left untreated.
Regen
The local hooligan carrot flies obviously haven't heard of the 18 inch fly to rule round here , they are also to be found dead almost six feet up on the sticky yellow insect catching patches hanging in my glasshouse .
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Sorry clodhoppers but I have had a few days away and agree that your garden sounds great. I guess you have also demonstrated that you have to do so much more planning and hardworking compared to us able body types who just plod a row , scatter seed and hope for the best.
Bye the bye - mice have worked their way along my rows of carrots so I have had to harvest and freeze those they left. The rabbits did benefit from half eaten carrots and the tops. :o
In fact I reckon that had I been starting a garden from scratch on a 40 year old never dug plot full of weeds , brambles and all manner of pest I would have had to work a darn sight harder than I have for the square foot garden .
Now the brick work is done that's it for seven or so years , all I need to do is take one out, add compost and re sow /replant a different group crop. because of the replenishment there is never any nutrient & trace element deficiencies , pests are kept at a minimum there are very few weeds .
At seven years I may add more vermiculite and carry on as before for the bed will have a pan about 18 inches down which only the big lob worms will go through .
I also could excavate a bed ( 9 square feet ) by about 18 inches deep of fill a month at that point and scatter the contents over the lawns as a lawn feed /conditioner and make up some more filling .
Or I might be able to sell it by the bag full as raised bed fill for those who are only using a 6 inch boards as side walls .
The planning was a simple eXcel spread sheet that took me a while to do as I had to learn about eXcel in the first place and then try and remember it .
Once I'd grouped the seeds I had of the veg by brassica , roots legumes and others then used eXcel to put each group in alphabetical order it was a simple case of entering these ordered groups in the index on the left side and copy out across the A3 sheet when to so , plant out and harvest .
This winter I hope to move a bit further in eXcel and actually be able to take a complete line of say " Early nante fly resistant carrots " and be able to select it so it reproduces entirely all events in the 52 weeks that I have made on the A3 plan .
That way I can construct a new planner each year on a mask as easy as pie any crop I want in about an hour .
All my seeds are decanted as soon as I get them and put in air tight containers which are numbered and tied to the planners index number . It took me 2 & 1/2 hours to add new seeds & remove used or way past the use by date seeds on the eXcel sheet in January this year ..
I have a list for seed viabilities which indicates the length of viability of the seed if it's stored in a cool dark dry condition . I use this list when making up the seed container labels and the master seed holding list .
Again the power of eXcel is amazing it's so easy to do and alter once the main mask is made & eXcel work books from it are promogulated .
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Very nice!
I did something similar when i extended and remodelled my clinic 20yrs ago. We built a brick wall around the garden for privacy and zero maintenance, paved the majority but had raised beds at two heights all around the walls with a central small raised lawn, a circular raised pond and fountain and a small shed with veranda.
the idea was to give a bit of grass for those few dogs that will not pee on paving and also soemwhere to stand and watch pets being trotted around. The raised beds in anticipation of my declining back issues were filled with shrubs and heathers for zero maintenance...none of the superb colours of clodhoppers lovely flower beds but the whole idea was to keep work down. One corner was given over to a wall of rememberance that slowly got covered in brass plaques as owners wished.
it was a good place to take a calm break, have a summer staff BBQ or host our annual open days. Raised beds rule.