The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: Lesley Silvester on May 21, 2014, 10:30:59 pm
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I've just started trying to milk Cloud and, apart from the fact that she is not impressed with the whole process, her teats are so tiny that I can only use one finger and thumb. Any suggestion how to make her teats grow? I know that milking her will help but I wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference.
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milking usually stretches them, i expect you will have to try a alternative technique, such as drawing the milk down, plenty of lube on her teat will prevent chafing.
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I'm not sure there is a lot to be done, we had a an old girl with tiny teats and she'd been milked for six or seven years and they were still just a 'finger and thumb' job. Might have been why she was so cantankerous when being milked?
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Our snowdrop was the same when she had her first kids. It was as you say a finger and thumb (not easy with arthritic hands ) this year her teats are normal sized and much easier to milk
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I'm not sure there is a lot to be done, we had a an old girl with tiny teats and she'd been milked for six or seven years and they were still just a 'finger and thumb' job. Might have been why she was so cantankerous when being milked?
She's certainly cantankerous. It takes my OH and a friend to get her up on the milking bench and then to hold her still while I try to get some milk out of her. I'm usually leaning against her as well and trying to avoid hooves that are trying to dislodge my finger and thumb. As you say, Sokel, not easy with arthritic hands.
Wombat, can you explain what you mean by draw the milk down. I can't quite picture it.
I'm wondering if a milking machine would help or if her teats are too small. There are some on ebay for under £50 although the postage is high as they are from America.
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It was Ellie's tiny teats that got me into using the UdderlyEz hand pump.
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I had this issue with savannah when she first decided to be a maiden milker. It was finger and thumb milking for a while and then as her udder emptied I could take more into my hand. It took a while but now she has stonking great teats ;) perfect for milking.
I had to cheat a bit at the beginning as I realised that Scarlett (who was then 4) had the perfect sized hands for smaller teats so I bribed her to do it ;D
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Lisa, can I borrow your daughter for a week or two? I'll cook her favourite food.
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Its half term next week, you can have all 4. ;)
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I've been looking at these, too, Skirza, but I wasn't sure about the voltage of the charge. Is it suitable for the UK or did you have to buy an adaptor?
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I'm just attempting to buy one too - thank you for the link!! Just waiting to change my ebay password (grrrr). Do they hammer you for import tax if its coming from the USA? Tony suffered when he recently bought some guitar parts hence my question ;D
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I've ordered it now (really excited!) including P&P and the import tax it was about £71. the seller has messaged me to say he's thrown in some small teat cups too. Can't wait to use it.
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I have the same issue with a first timer just now, finger and thumb and patience on both sides but already have a couple of dansha milkers so emailed him as the teat cups I have are too big so he;s sent me some extra small 20ml ones for free.
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Skirza.....getting 20ml syringes are not a problem, getting them to fit the pipes on the milker however is
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Plums also was given free ones. I've just ordered mine and having to pay for them. :(
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I suspect its because we've bought quite a lot of stuff from him over the last year so he's keeping us sweet MGofM
maybe we could do a deal with him and quote TAS for future purchases :-J
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Sounds like an idea. ;D
Email today to say it's been dispatched. :excited:
Ironically, tonight I actually managed to get more than a dribble out of her and on BOTH sides. Not much more than a dribble admittedly but it's progress. She's even getting up on the milking bench straight away now that she realises she gets sweeties once she's up. Ok, she tries to get back down as soon as she's eaten them but we can usually prevent that. Soon be down to just OH and me managing without friend.
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Glad you're making some small progress.
I had a milk shower this morning when one of my first-timers decided to get fidgety and I didn't move the bucket quick enough. ::)
She's got two holes in one of her teats so milking is proving a bit messy at the moment.
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:roflanim:
That must be fun trying to aim two streams of milk into the bucket from one side. It can be hard enough getting it to go straight at the best of times.
I had one mishap once when I was showing a friend and her young son how milking was done. My friend was wearing a very, very short skirt and was squatting to get a better view, when the milk suddenly shot off at an angle and went straight up her skirt and giving her wet knickers. :roflanim: Her son thought it was hilarious and so did I.
She never asked to watch again. :innocent:
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I was giving some school children a demonstration once. So that they could see better, I stood up and bent forward to squeeze vanna's teats, unfortunately as I did so my bum touched the electric fence giving me a huge shock up the bum which carried through the goats udder and she kicked the bucket over and I said a 'bad word'. never again.
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did you end it with...."and thats what you don't do boys and girls" :roflanim:
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I was giving some school children a demonstration once. So that they could see better, I stood up and bent forward to squeeze vanna's teats, unfortunately as I did so my bum touched the electric fence giving me a huge shock up the bum which carried through the goats udder and she kicked the bucket over and I said a 'bad word'. never again.
This made my morning :roflanim:
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I was giving some school children a demonstration once. So that they could see better, I stood up and bent forward to squeeze vanna's teats, unfortunately as I did so my bum touched the electric fence giving me a huge shock up the bum which carried through the goats udder and she kicked the bucket over and I said a 'bad word'. never again.
This made my morning :roflanim:
Just spluttered my tea everywhere. :roflanim:
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Lol. Love it!! Thing's to look forward to ...
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Oh the joys of goat keeping and, even more, the joys of demonstrating milking.
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our new 20ml syringes arrived today so hooked them up and off we went :excited:
but despite having milk in the udder, she wouldn't let the milk down. as soon as we took the syringe off I could get some out using a finger and thumb. She and her sister are first timers so I suppose it will be a case of getting them into the routine so they knows whats happening. I think we were spoilt with big Daisy and her massive teats and laidback attitude
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Do you find that the noise of the Dansha machine puts the goat off/makes her more kicky? Mines not arrived yet but it was something I noticed on the youtube clip on ebay that it sounds a bit noisy?
(I tried playing music to savannah on my ipod during milking time and you'd have thought it was 1 Direction the way she kicked off. She wasn't too bad with Bruno Marrs and gary Barlow but opera is completely ruled out too.Hence my concern about noises)
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When I first got my milking machine I just ran it by itself in the goat shed - and yes to start with they completely went berserk in their pens, but it only took a few times of it being on that they didn't bat an eye lid. Then next step was to have it on while they were on the milking bench but still hand-milked, then after a few days I just put the clusters on and held onto the goat... it was fine after a few times.
Now as the machine is on regularly all the time my 1st kidders are not disturbed by it at all, although still a bit of kicking when they are put on the first few times. But I have found it easier to start off milking them on the machine rather than by hand - it leaves both hands free to steady the goat and make sure she doesn't kick the clusters off. They normally settle quite quickly into a routine. Also putting the clusters on from the back (as they would in a commercial milking parlour) means they can't kick them off as easily.
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Brilliant advice, thank you Anke.
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Thanks for that, Anke. I'll try that with mine, although I'll have to put the clusters on from the side as the milking bench is in a corner and I can't get behind her. I'm still trying to get some out off her with one finger and my thumb, without much success but it's getting her used to being handled there. She's fine while she has food in her bucket but she can empty a bucket in seconds flat. You'd think she'd never been fed the way she dives into it. I swear she is half Saanen half Labrador. ;)
Getting :excited: about my milking machine now. :excited:
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our Daisy is a radio 2 fan for milking so will try getting them used to the buzzing of the machine for a few days and handle her udder at the same time, then progress to the machine :fc:
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Radio 2 for mine here too.... except I always have to turn it off between 12 and 2, which is when I do the lunchtime slot...can't stand J Vine.
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Radio 2 goes on in our house as soon as OH goes downstairs so milking time gives me a break from it. He switches to Radio 4 at 7pm then, after the Archers, onto Radio 4 Extra. Drives me mad at times.
PS I do like Jeremy Vine.
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I pefer Jeremy Vine to Vanessa Feltz, I just can't take that woman seriously
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I can't listen to Radio 2 at all, my mother subjected me to years of Terry Wogan and Ken Bruce when I was a child - I see it as some sort of punishment now (my loss, I'm sure) Its Touch FM here while I'm working in the soap kitchen and ipod when i'm in the goat fields ;D
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I grew into Radio 2 when I met OH. I like a lot on Radio 4 as well and I do enjoy the old sitcoms such as Steptoe and Son on Radio 4 extra.
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How about letting her suckle for 1 year and milking her the next?
hope this helps
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How about letting her suckle for 1 year and milking her the next?
hope this helps
Letting kids suckle will almost certainly make her into a fidgety milker, and not necessarily increase the size of the teats. That is my experience....
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I need to get some milk from her as both my goats are feeding the kids so the yield is down.
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The Dansha milker arrived today - I didn't expect it to go well with my goat but I went out with bucket of feed, popped one suction cap on and she didn't flinch! popped other one on, she just carried on munching.
The noise didn't bother her at all and my wrists don't hurt for the first time in ages after milking time! thank you so much for recommending this!!
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The Dansha milker arrived today - I didn't expect it to go well with my goat but I went out with bucket of feed, popped one suction cap on and she didn't flinch! popped other one on, she just carried on munching.
The noise didn't bother her at all and my wrists don't hurt for the first time in ages after milking time! thank you so much for recommending this!!
Brilliant! :thumbsup:
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they are good aren't they? Also cuts the amount of feed I'm having to use to keep them entertained and its so much quicker for me than by hand and they get it over and done with and out to field :thumbsup:
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I think as I get more confident using it (ie. get better at putting the cups on!) we will have a greater yield. Her udder wasn't stripped out but no more was coming through the machine so I might have to finish the milking by hand? or use the mans tips of holding the udder to do so, but its practise I guess. I was dreading the goat freaking at the noise but she was by far less kicky with this on than she has been with me milking by hand some days. :thumbsup:
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I'm looking forward to mine arriving - tomorrow, I hope. Cloud is settling down well to being milked but it will take an age when the kids are no longer on her as I have to milk with finger and thumb on both hands for each teat. It hurts my thumbs as well and the rate is very slow.
Glad you're so pleased with yours, Plums.
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It's arrived. :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: All I have to do now is to work out how to change the teat cups that are on there for the smaller ones. I've tried switching it on near the goats and they jumped a bit, so I'll do that a few times before trying it inside. Once they've stopped jumping a mile, I'll use it.
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You will love it!! Used it again yesterday, this time I made sure there was extra gravity (ie the jar was much, much lower than the udder) it was even faster. Milking was over really quickly and no pain in the wrist :love:
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You're right. I tried buzzing it near her while I was milking and she was fine so I put the cups on (the large ones because I still haven't managed to be able to swap them) and she didn't seem to mind. TBH that goat wouldn't notice if her tail was on fire once she's got her nose in a bucket of food. It's not flowing very fast though and I can't get the jar any lower than it is already so I haven't managed to get much. I think it might be better with the smaller cups. Just waiting for a reply email from the senders re how to change them.
Pom's yield has halved now and I think she's feeding the babies more.
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I split the kids and mums last night so its been a noisy night :tired:
MGoM....if your milker is like mine you have 2 syringes one on each end of the tube? Can you not just pull them out and push in the smaller ones?
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The small syringes come complete with their own tubes and it looks as if I should simply be able to pull the tube off the top of the jar and replace it but it won't come off.
I'm not getting much out of her despite her udder being rock hard. I hope the smaller cups will work better.
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sorry MGoM maybe I'm not understanding you but can't you just swap the syringes round keeping the same tube?
they are really hard to take off at the jar the first couple of times but the tubing stretches in hot water
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Same problem, FRH. They are fitted so tightly that I can't get them off. Bearing in mind that my hands don't work too well, I asked my OH to do it and he can't either. I did wonder about hot water but wanted to wait until I'd heard back from the seller in case that would damage the seal on the jar lid.
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it shouldn't, my OH had to get ours off, the seal on the lid is dental cement so is pretty tough stuff. I rinse all my tubes and lids in boiling water after sterilising so won't do any harm
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Thanks. I'll try that.
Does the motor for yours run continuously? I know you stop holding the button down while the milk is flowing but mine sometimes takes a while before it will start again and I'm pressing the button and releasing several times. I'm not sure if that's a fault with the machine or my goat.
I think the kids are now feeding solely off Pom as they can't get any from Cloud. Her udder is rock hard, quite warm but not hot and it's impossible to get more than a small amount of milk from her even with the machine. She is a first-time milker.
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If she rfuses to let down give her a small shot of oxytocin, it works wonders. :trophy:
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I find my pump stops or sounds deeper when the pressure is getting too much. The hand vacuum pump has a pressure gauge on it which was really useful but the battery pumps don't, might ask OH if we can put one on?
I'm finding Willow, also a first time milker giving more each day as she gets used to it all, took me weeks to even persuade her to get in the milking stand but now the kids are off her at night she's glad to offload some I think
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WBF, what is oxytocin and where do I get it? She starts to let down and I get up to a quarter of a pint and then it all stops.
FRH, that might be the problem. I think the pressure does build up. How long do you hold the button down?
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just until I get a decent flow of milk, when it slows down I press the button again. If she starts to look too red and could be sore I take them off, I don't want to strip her out anyway as she is still feeding kids.
Daisy on the other hand has the big 60ml cups and once she gets empty you lose the pressure anyway as her teats shrink back
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I'm using the big teat cups atm and that might be the problem. I think some udder is getting sucked in with the teat and that might be uncomfortable. I'll sort the small ones tomorrow.
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All good vets sell it in bottles, so ask your local vet. When the buffaloes are troublesome in letting down we give them a shot of oxy and it usually works.
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Talk to the vet if she thinks oxytocin would help she can give you just a syringe full. It's a hormone usually given after kidding to help milk let down in any mammal.
If Cloud's udder is already very full and tight I'd be careful of giving something that will encourage more milk until you're sure you can draw it off.
I had oxytocin for an angora with mastitis last year it didn't help and maybe made it worse.
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I managed to get half a pint from her today using the smaller cups and massaging her udder throughout. It did take about half an hour though. I'm not sure if she's not letting down properly or I need to short the length of tubing so the milk doesn't have to do loop the loop as it is backing up a bit. She did seem a lot more comfortable having the smaller cups on though. I just wish she wouldn't lean so hard when she rests her head on my shoulder. :roflanim:
Thanks for your comment, Debbie. I would rather avoid injecting her with anything without being absolutely certain of the problem. I guess it's just a case of persevering.
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Today must be the 4th/5th time I've used mine (I'm only milking once a day) and I would say I've taken about 5 times as much as on the first day. perhaps its a case of everyone just getting used to it (mainly the goat!)
I know what you mean about the tubing, Tony's first (and only comment lol) was "I think I need to reduce the tube for you..."
Today I really used the motor each time the milk started to slow and was very pleasantly surprised at how quickly the flow went in the jar! I'm worrying now though about the jar being too small for an entire milking when vanna reaches her usual 9 pints :-\
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we have 3 five gallon plastic beer kegs things so when they are all getting milked we can decant into that as we go :fc:
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Did Tony reduce the tubing? I wondered whether it needed to be that length for some reason (not a technical person, me). I also find that the jar keeps falling over and I'm sure that's to do with the length of the tube. Can you just cut it with scissors?
FRH, I have my milking bucket on standby but I only got a quarter pint tonight. She still feels quite hard, although not as hard as before. I just don't know if the kids are feeding from both of them or not. Pom only gave half a pint tonight instead of her usual two. I've seen them suckling her but not from their mother for a few days. I don't want to be trying to get milk that isn't there although it does seems to be flowing very slowly. She's very relaxed about it all if a tad fed up with having to stand still so long.
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no, he didn't.
I've been putting the jar in my old milking bucket, lying the bucket on its side and putting it as low as poss. Its working fine with the tubing as long as it is so long as I do this. savannah was still quite hard on one side of her udder until yesterday when it really seemed to just 'kick in'. Are your goats teats allowing a good flow of milk? there's not a blockage over the teat is there? sometimes vanna gets a little plug that restricts flow.
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I've not tried in on Pom as I want to keep hand milking as long as I am able. Beeducked visited today and she thinks shortening the tubes a bit will help. A lot of the trouble seems to be that Cloud is not letting the milk down properly but it is flowing. It just trickles for a bit then stops. The kids are taking from her as well but I suspect they take more than I get. I don't think it helps that the fishtail teat doesn't get such a good seal.
I'm going to have a word with my vet tomorrow and ask his advice. With both goats feeding the babies and Cloud not parting with much, I'm only getting about three quarters of a pint a day. It may be that oxytocin will be the answer.
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How old are the kids?
I've been seperating mine overnight for the last couple of weeks and having the morning milk.
Their starting to eat alot more creep now and have mums during the day.
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I'm splitting mine at night now too and mum has a nice big udder in the morning so I get a litre or so and the kids get the rest, the biggest issue I'm finding at the mo is that the small teat cups have a small nozzle and the flow is too fast so the milk is getting backed up the syringe but her teats aren't big enough for the large syringes but its still better than the finger and thumb :thumbsup:
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I don't have the facilities to separate them at night unfortunately.
The milking machine is working well but I still don't get a lot - more of a trickle than a flow - so I think that, even though she feels full - she actually has very little milk left. I did shorten the tubes and find that makes it easier.
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I am going to have to grow an extra hand I think, doing one side at a time is just taking too long, she's eaten her breakfast and ready to go by the time I get to the 2nd teat. Just aswell the school hols start soon, child labour may be required :thumbsup:
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I don't have the facilities to separate them at night unfortunately.
The milking machine is working well but I still don't get a lot - more of a trickle than a flow - so I think that, even though she feels full - she actually has very little milk left. I did shorten the tubes and find that makes it easier.
Could you put a hurdle or something across the corner of the shed to seperate them?
Mine have a pen in the same shed they don't need to be right away.
How old are the kids? Mine are 8weeks and starting to get the hang of creep feed and going into the pen for their supper.
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hurdles are soooooo handy!
I've put my oldest 3 kids in a seperate shed, they can still shout at mum in the morning but after a couple of night, they happily trotted in for their supper and off to bed
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I am going to have to grow an extra hand I think, doing one side at a time is just taking too long, she's eaten her breakfast and ready to go by the time I get to the 2nd teat. Just aswell the school hols start soon, child labour may be required :thumbsup:
My OH is press-ganged into standing by and pressing the button to start the motor. Once the teat cups are on I can manage but he still needs to be there to stop her from twisting round. My dear friend who is a carpenter is going to adapt the milking bench so that there is a head restraint.
Dogwalker, they're five weeks old today. I did think about putting hurdles across the shed. I just need to work out how to fix them in place. Think I need some hooks screwed into the walls.
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Hiya all. Really interesting as I'm looking at getting a milking machine. Does anyone use a pulsating machine? Im sure I've read somewhere that the Vacuum Milkers can damage the teats over time. .anyone else had this?
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Been ponding your milking machine having seen it MGoM. Been thing int of a way you could make it a 1 person job without the OH to press the button when you're ready. If you put a three way tap at the Y between the 2 tubes to the syringes that go to the teats then you could attach 1 to the teat while the three way tap attachment to the other is closed and then place the other onto the teat and flip the switch to include both.
Not sure I have explained my idea well and it might not work but worth a go maybe.
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Hiya all. Really interesting as I'm looking at getting a milking machine. Does anyone use a pulsating machine? Im sure I've read somewhere that the Vacuum Milkers can damage the teats over time. .anyone else had this?
I've got an old style bucket milking machine. I resist using it until this time of year when I've got 4 to milk and my hands start hurting.
I enjoy a quiet morning milking time when I'm hand milking and can do two. Using the machine makes it into a 'job'. I miss my morning thinking space, not really ready for that noise at 7am. It does work well but I exchange cramping hands for aching shoulders and elbows carrying buckets of water out to rinse it through.
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Been ponding your milking machine having seen it MGoM. Been thing int of a way you could make it a 1 person job without the OH to press the button when you're ready. If you put a three way tap at the Y between the 2 tubes to the syringes that go to the teats then you could attach 1 to the teat while the three way tap attachment to the other is closed and then place the other onto the teat and flip the switch to include both.
Not sure I have explained my idea well and it might not work but worth a go maybe.
??? ??? ???
Actually, I have discovered that if I rest the motor on my thighs, I can press the button with my elbow. Once Cloud's head is restrained, I will be able to manage on my own.
Dogwalker, I agree with you that hand milking is a lovely 'thinking' time. I enjoy it but, apart from needing the machine to cope with Cloud's tiny teats, I think milking two would be hard on my hands. It's also good to know that I can use it on Pom when my hands are really bad.
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since using the machine on willow and her tiny teats, they have increased in size a bit so she's hand milkable if I need to
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I had reached the point where the pain was so bad in my wrist that I was dreading milking each day and it had become a chore :( with this machine I can sit and watch all 4 of them while they have their feed, spend time relaxing rather than concentrating etc and I know her udder is being more efficiently milked which is a relief. I do enjoy hand milking but the pain after just wasn't worth it.
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It does stop being a pleasure if it hurts. I hope that I can continue hand milking for many years to come but at least i know I can machine milk both of them if I have to.
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Sorry to be late asking questions on the milker, but I've only just started milking my goat in volume and would like the option of using the dansha machine. Which model did you choose and did you buy direct or through eBay? My second goat is a small GG who I'll put in kid this autumn, should I buy a small teat set as well? Its so encouraging that you've had such good experiences!
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if she's like my guernseys ask for the 20ml cups, we have a hand pump and a battery pump, the battery one is much faster for getting a good suction if she's not one that will happily stand for you to hand pump (great work out for your forearms btw)
bought through Ebay (quote accidental smallholder and see if you get a discount seeing as so many of us have made purchases recently :innocent: )
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I bought mine through ebay and asked for small teat cups at the same time so they could put them both in the same box, so reducing the cost of postage.
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Thank you I'm definitely going to buy one.
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:thumbsup:
I'm sure you'll love it.
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Ordered and I mentioned the recommendations for TAS. No discount, but he thanked you all for your comments.
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Let us know how it goes. Bet you love it. The motor noise made mine a bit jumpy at first so for a day or two I took it into their yard and started it a few times. They soon got used to it and weren't worried when I produced it at milking time.
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does anyone happen to know if the Mason Ball jars are the same size/dimensions as the Kilner ones? Could do with a couple of extra jars but not sure if they would fit ???
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Was wondering the same thing too. I have ordered one as one of my girls is very twitchy at the moment milking (I think it's the flies, she puts up so long and then starts kicking the pail over). It's a bit of a battle of wills to make sure she gets properly milked out and I am happy to put up with her being a bit mardy but I know my OH won't put up with her being temperamental when I'm away so this way I know she'll be fine when I can't be here to milk her.
A spare jar will mean I can be away for more than 1 milking as am pretty sure I will come home to find the jar ready and waiting for me to wash!
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I ordered extra jars on ebay. did a search for mason ball jars and up they came. Savannah fills 2 jars at each milking now and I might need to buy another at this rate. so far I've not smashed any (touch wood!!)
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Do you just swap the jars over but use the same lid or have you made another one with tubes and all?
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I looked up Mason jars on Ebay but only came up with ones in the US or 'vintage' ones at a ridiculous price! Was hoping just to change lids over once jar was full so it was sealed etc and I could carry on milking.
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I paid £5 for mine :-\
I just swap the lid over and give the motor another blast...
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If ever I get to the stage where she is giving me more than about a quarter pint, I'll do the same. The babies can't keep suckling for ever.
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Dansha milker arrived. Day 2 and my girl is so much happier she gave a good 2 pints this morning, with no fuss or stress. This is definitely the way forward for us. Thank you to the pioneer users, your experiences have been so useful.
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glad to hear that Calvadnack :thumbsup:
we couldn't do our milking with out it now, well we could but my hands would be in bits
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I've had a problem in that my machine stop sucking although the motor was working. Fortunately Cloud's teats have developed enough for me to be able to hand milk her but my hands don't like doing both of them. I emailed Dansha Farms on Friday evening, had a reply on Saturday morning to say they would replace the motor, another one Saturday to say that they would send the tracking number as soon as they had one. This morning I had an email with the tracking number and notification that it would be sent tomorrow. That's what I call good service.