The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: highhorse on April 29, 2014, 05:00:04 pm
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:cow:
hi
my hubby and i are taking on a smallholiding this summer with grazing and a barn. we would lke to do something that gives a regular income ( im only talking a few thousand, not making big money) and wondered if calves were viable?
say we reared 20 at a time? sourced them from dairy farms when they were just a few weeks old, sold them on between 12 and 16 weeks?
any experiences, tips, figures would be very much appeciated with regards to the business/financial aspects.
thnks ;)
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I'm not sure you'll make much if you only keep them a few months. A beef cross will cost you £150-£250 depending on breed, and won't fetch a great deal more than that at 3-4 months. If you take them on at less than a month old, you'll lose the odd one, and have the odd vet bill.
You need to keep them to 9-10 months old, really. And I wouldn't advocate having them so young, certainly not when you're starting out.
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Calves are very labour intensive as well as the points sally raised above. If you want to go into beef I would think about buying a few 6-8 month old beef stores and rear them on until finish... but whatever you do decide to go for make sure you've got the handling systems in place, calves don't stay small for very long!
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:cow:
hi
my hubby and i are taking on a smallholiding this summer with grazing and a barn. we would lke to do something that gives a regular income ( im only talking a few thousand, not making big money) and wondered if calves were viable?
say we reared 20 at a time? sourced them from dairy farms when they were just a few weeks old, sold them on between 12 and 16 weeks?
any experiences, tips, figures would be very much appeciated with regards to the business/financial aspects.
thnks ;)
:wave: i bought my place on a business plan much like what you describe . but it worked out more like sally described . rearing one lot over winter then they are ready to graze now .decent calves are hard to come by . i stopped doing them for a year or 2 as couldnt get decent calfs at a decent price .we used to buy them at lanark and ayr mart but both almost dried up. then went to Carlisle but calves were dirty and a fair travel . the calves were not great . i now get some from a local farm not big numbers hereford bull only sweeps after ai. but good clean calves . i have jaged 1 out of 30 for pneumonia no scour far less stress on calfs . there is a return but you need to be on your game with them .
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thanks guys. would it be more effective then to buy young calves, rear indoors for say 8 weeks, then turn them out for 8-10 months and sell them on before their 1st birthday?
do you guys sell on through markets?
what weight do you expect them to reach by about 10 months?
and advice on breeds? is dairy x beef ( say angus) a good way to go or should i not worry about breed too much but rather concetrate on health and quality?
are heifers easier/better natured?
sorry for so many questions but knowledge is power a wise man said ;/
thanks
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it would depends when you bought them as most cattle winter inside. especially if being sold for meat.
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Regular income?
No livestock enterprise is likely to give a regular income, except dairy milk production. (unless you count annual as regular) .
Is there a local dairy farmer who might like his calves reared for him? Could be a way to go?
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hi
yes annual or regular as in a couple/few times a year (will be keeping some sheep too)
x
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I live on my OH's beef farm- suckler heard of 30 (soon to be 40) beef cows varying breeds limousin, charolais, Simmental but mostly lim, and purebred lim bull. They sell calves at 8-12 mths old as stores through local market and get very good prices for them on the whole but they are very well fed, good quality stock.
You need to decide on a breed- no point rearing pure dairy calves, and a lot of continental beef breeds (lim, charolais) can be hard to handle at the best of times. A neighbour of ours has 4 or 5 Red Ruby Devon stores that he keeps for a 12-18mths and they were pretty docile, so a native smaller breed may be better. I would try to go purebred rather than a dairy x beef calf unless you want to breed the heifers later on.
Heifers can be just as stubborn if not more stubborn I think than steers but again that depends on breeding and how much they are handled. Ours are fairly good but are in all winter and the heifers especially are bedded down whilst still in the pen so are used to being handled.
I think they would have to come in October/November time until March/April, ours come in from October till mid April or whenever the weather improves and the grass starts growing.
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You mostly can't buy pure beef calves as they are, pretty much by definition, reared on their mothers.
So you will be buying calves out of dairy cows, which the farmer needs off the cow so he can milk her.
Rearing pure dairy calves is a specialist job, so don't go there.
So you will be buying and rearing beef x dairy calves.
The problem with heifers is that they come a-bulling and can give you a management problem. However if you are selling at under 12 months, and any bull calves you have are castrated, then you shouldn't have too many problems. (And you definitely want the bull calves castrated, whether you have heifers as well or not.)
Any of the native beef breeds that you are likely to get are fairly docile - Angus, Hereford, Beef Shorthorn, Red Devon, South Devon to name a few - as are British Blue. Continentals are, on the whole, more challenging - perhaps best to start with something easier.
Depending on where you are, you may be able to outwinter. They will need good shelter. If you are going to outwinter then you definitely want a hardy native breed.
You should go to your local mart now and see what is being sold at 11-12 months old now. That will show you what sort of size and price your calves would be.
I've said it before but I am going to repeat it - try to buy calves direct from a local dairy farmer, especially as you start out. S/he will give you a little bit of support, you won't have the complication of diseases picked up through the mart, and I won't have to write pages of information about what to look for and what to avoid when buying through the mart! (Which would be hard work when I would have to explain every term, less hard to do when you have a bit of experience under your belt. ;) )
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thanks everyone.
sallyintnorth, thanks for the info, i was thinking something like angus? we have very sheltered fields with woodland on a slope so drainage is really good. will defo be getting them castrated, less testosterone-less hassle in my book, goes for all species ;)
im assuming they are fairly hardy so with that are they more resistant to disease/illness?
next thing i have to learn about is all the required paperwork and routine health stuff :(
thanks to everyone on here though the picture is becoming clearer :)
x
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what part of the uk are you in? that affects the tb/bvd testing etc
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Animal health will advise on paperwork and your local vet is the one to speak to about routine health care for your area. Good luck :thumbsup:
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I suggest starting with no more than 3, that way you'll be able to pay them a lot of attention. Good quality milk powder and calf creep are expensive Must come from a good farmer who ensures all his calves have the correct quantity of colostrum and has a Johnes, BVD and IBR-free herd. Dehorn if necessary. Have a basic handling system and constant source of clean water. Good fencing. We buy in week old beef X heifer calves in May and sell the following February as potential suckler cows. leaving the lambing shed free for the ewes. If you do this you must ensure you don't get freemartins (heifer calves twinned to a bull calf) as they'll likely be infertile. Profit isn't that great but we're getting known for good quality stock and it's improving. A couple of hefty vet's bills could wipe it out completely, hence the emphasis on healthy stock to begin with.
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hi shygirl
we are in scotland
x
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Great, no TB to worry about then, and I think most herds now know their BVD status. Ideally you would buy from BVD-free herds which have been vaccinating for at least two years.
Which would be your nearest mart?
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You mostly can't buy pure beef calves as they are, pretty much by definition, reared on their mothers.
Yes sorry I meant buying pure beef stores not calves, so 6mth old weaned heifers and steers (castrated males, therefore running with heifers shouldn't be an issue).
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Great, no TB to worry about then, and I think most herds now know their BVD status. Ideally you would buy from BVD-free herds which have been vaccinating for at least two years.
Which would be your nearest mart?
nearset mart would be craig wilson at ayr. its only about 20 mins away. might be worth going along to check out the prices etc x
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nearset mart would be craig wilson at ayr. its only about 20 mins away. might be worth going along to check out the prices etc x
You'll learn loads - and have a gazillion more questions! lol
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Great, no TB to worry about then, and I think most herds now know their BVD status. Ideally you would buy from BVD-free herds which have been vaccinating for at least two years.
Which would be your nearest mart?
nearset mart would be craig wilson at ayr. its only about 20 mins away. might be worth going along to check out the prices etc x
i used to buy alot of calfs from there but they got a bit scarce not sure what they are like now . its a decent mart .there are still alot of dairy farms down that way so you may have a chance of buying direct but the mart will be a good start
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calves at this present moment are making between £150 to £400 from markets so do your research.
milk powder cost £?? you have to ask the supplier
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You must be around my area, milk powder for calves £40 a bag or thereabouts, then good quality feeding I use I'ansons which is fabulous stuff at £11.25 a bag. The dairy farms around Ayr mostly shoot their bull calves although I do take a few home on odd occasions and rear them. The BVD status doesn't have to be negative if selling bull calves currently it is only for the sale of breeding heifers and cows. Johnes is quite prevelant in this area as well. Most of the dairy farms vaccinate for BVD, and you can find the status of someone if you have their holding number on the BCMS website.
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You must be around my area, milk powder for calves £40 a bag or thereabouts, then good quality feeding I use I'ansons which is fabulous stuff at £11.25 a bag. The dairy farms around Ayr mostly shoot their bull calves although I do take a few home on odd occasions and rear them. The BVD status doesn't have to be negative if selling bull calves currently it is only for the sale of breeding heifers and cows. Johnes is quite prevelant in this area as well. Most of the dairy farms vaccinate for BVD, and you can find the status of someone if you have their holding number on the BCMS website.
hi
are the ones they shoot/you take home pure dairy or x beef?
do you raise them for yourself or for profit?
:-)
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Highhorse... it is only the pure dairy bull calves that are worth nothing which are shot..... because they have no worth as meat .... cost the same to feed as a beefx and don't produce a commercial carcass at the end .... Ok for home use ofcourse. A few people are trying to produce rose veal from Jersey bull calves... but a difficult market.
Having read your questions both here and in the sheep section you are very keen to try anything which makes a profit ... whilst profit is important (though illusive generally in smallholding) your abilities and knowledge of what you are tackling are far more important, as is a real passion for what you are rearing.
I would suggest many market visits, show visits and probably some HelpXing on other smallholdings before you start on any venture .... decide what you really like working with because 24/7 care and cost out running income for at least several years (whatever you do will involve investment) will soon dull enthusiasm on anything else. Good Luck
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Not all dairy bull calves are shot/worthless, good Holstein and Friesian calves sell reasonably well as young calves and very well as grown stirks, but rearing them is a specialist job.
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Highhorse... it is only the pure dairy bull calves that are worth nothing which are shot..... because they have no worth as meat .... cost the same to feed as a beefx and don't produce a commercial carcass at the end .... Ok for home use ofcourse. A few people are trying to produce rose veal from Jersey bull calves... but a difficult market.
Having read your questions both here and in the sheep section you are very keen to try anything which makes a profit ... whilst profit is important (though illusive generally in smallholding) your abilities and knowledge of what you are tackling are far more important, as is a real passion for what you are rearing.
I would suggest many market visits, show visits and probably some HelpXing on other smallholdings before you start on any venture .... decide what you really like working with because 24/7 care and cost out running income for at least several years (whatever you do will involve investment) will soon dull enthusiasm on anything else. Good Luck
hi
yes i do need to think about at least doing something which wipes its face or turn a small profit. in an ideal world i would do it for love but the world is far from ideal. ;)
i had a smallholding years ago with sheep, pigs, goats and chickens but they were pets/weeders or for own freezer and thats quite a bit different from keeping them for business purposes. made my money back then by breeding horses but i do not want to go down that route again, however tht stood me in good stead for the 24/7/365 delights of animals. there will be no shocks for me there, nor in their ability to be sick when least expected or inconvenient.
so difficult to know what route to go down, would love sheep, goats and cattle but feel it may spread me a bit thin.... :-)
this forum has been great though, given me lots to think about and a few good ideas, just need to research the local market now and jiggle a few figures ( love the ord 'just')
:-) xx
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Hi, I rear pure dairy holstein friesian calves, there is a small amount of profit in this, I just tend to do it as a savings plan more than anything plus the pure enjoyment of rearing them. I also buy beef x dairy heifers to bring on to put back in calf to a beef breed, have been successful in this and left calves with their mother and fed them with them up to 8 months and was offered £850 per calf from a local farmer just prior to the winter, knew he would make a profit come the spring but outweighed the cost of feeding etc over the winter.
You need to bear in mind whilst there is viable profit in some things I paid quite a lot for a belgian blue x friesian bull calf, lovely big strong healthy calf, took pneumonia and despite being treated with numerous things to the tune of a few £100 I lost him. These are things you have to take into consideration, rearing of calves isn't a doddle but it's a great thing to do but building up knowledge, being able to recognise signs of illness and any problems etc puts you in a far better standing for starting this from scratch, plus it is labour intensive if done correctly. I reared calves for a number of years learning by trial and error, then I worked full time dairy rearing calves and milking etc, that taught me an awful lot and was a great experience, I still work in the dairy industry as well as running my own place, hence the access to a number of farms in the area.
If you want an easy option and profit calf rearing isn't it, although one of your other ideas maybe be a hit depending on where you are located, the horse side, field livery etc. Breeding horses now is a no no really value is right out of them.
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Hi, I rear pure dairy holstein friesian calves, there is a small amount of profit in this, I just tend to do it as a savings plan more than anything plus the pure enjoyment of rearing them. I also buy beef x dairy heifers to bring on to put back in calf to a beef breed, have been successful in this and left calves with their mother and fed them with them up to 8 months and was offered £850 per calf from a local farmer just prior to the winter, knew he would make a profit come the spring but outweighed the cost of feeding etc over the winter.
You need to bear in mind whilst there is viable profit in some things I paid quite a lot for a belgian blue x friesian bull calf, lovely big strong healthy calf, took pneumonia and despite being treated with numerous things to the tune of a few £100 I lost him. These are things you have to take into consideration, rearing of calves isn't a doddle but it's a great thing to do but building up knowledge, being able to recognise signs of illness and any problems etc puts you in a far better standing for starting this from scratch, plus it is labour intensive if done correctly. I reared calves for a number of years learning by trial and error, then I worked full time dairy rearing calves and milking etc, that taught me an awful lot and was a great experience, I still work in the dairy industry as well as running my own place, hence the access to a number of farms in the area.
If you want an easy option and profit calf rearing isn't it, although one of your other ideas maybe be a hit depending on where you are located, the horse side, field livery etc. Breeding horses now is a no no really value is right out of them.
I would steer clear of liveries, horses trash ground, trash fencing, picky grazers, plus if DIY you have several owners to keep happy, then you've got insurance, field maintenance etc. unless offering part or full or breaking services I wouldn't put horses on your land.
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Did you forget to write anything, twizz? All I can see is CGP's post quoted.
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Ha stupid phone and small buttons, pressed post before I had written anything ;)
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definately want to steer clear of horses, ran an equestrian stud/producing yard for eight years and basically turned grey at the rude, demanding and backstabbing attitudes of horsey people ( bit rich saying this as i am one and have been a horsey person for over twenty years so clearly we arnt all rude and bakstabbing..... ;) ) .
love the idea of rearing some calves. thought about starting with 5 and building to 20 ( once i am more proficient at it)......buy them a few weeks old in winter, keep in until early spring then turn out for spring and summer ready to sell in the autumn and repeat the process.
was thinking dairy x angus? any thoughts?
ive reared orphan foals, puppies, kittens, lambs and goats from a baby but never a calf......lots of reading coming my way :-)
x
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I've said it before but I'll say it again on this thread - get calves at least one month old, especially while you are starting.
Would you be planning to feed them by bottle or bucket?
Dairy x Angus or x Hereford would be a good choice to start with, IMO.
Your choice and timing may be limited by what regimes your local dairy farms are on - some calve all year round, some predominantly in the autumn, some predominantly in the spring. I suspect more calve in the spring than the autumn - if you think about when you would want your dairy cows to be dry for 60 days before calving, you wouldn't choose to do that when the grass is at its best ;)
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(http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20623.0;attach=7205;image) (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20623.0;attach=7204;image)
I reared these two belgian blue x dairy heifer calves a year or so ago.I got them at 3 weeks and kept them to 9 months old when I took them to market.They stood me at£445 each ,cost of calf ,milk,concentrate ,wormer,hay/straw etc.They looked realyy good at the market and bidding was brisk.They made £450 each,no profit but they did the land good and were a joy to have around the place.
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Country soul .... that is a great post .... the beasties look great :excited:..... you did them proud.
Everyone who asks about profitable smallholding should see this... gain is in satisfaction and hopefully land improvement not money! Hope you enjoyed drinking the profits!!
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I reared these two belgian blue x dairy heifer calves a year or so ago.I got them at 3 weeks and kept them to 9 months old when I took them to market.They stood me at£445 each ,cost of calf ,milk,concentrate ,wormer,hay/straw etc.They looked realyy good at the market and bidding was brisk.They made £450 each,no profit but they did the land good and were a joy to have around the place.
They look good and healthy! with a nice shape to them, I suggest they didnt make higher price because they were white BB's, however that might just be our area, who knows
Our BB cross freisian calves are sold off farm at maybe 2 weeks old, sometimes less, earlyer the better because of our pre TB movement tests, white ones sell for maybe £200-£250 however the mottled ones (BB colour) can sell for up to £350!!!! no idea why!!
They get sold into suckler herds as suckler cows
Limi cross do so aswell but dont go up to £350, more like £250,
AA cross heifers go for meat with the boys, contract sold to a rearer who rears them for Mc donalds, they make maybe £250 for heifers up to £350 for a big beef cross bull
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thanks to you guys above for the positive comments.
I'm thinking of getting a couple more in the autumn,may be Hereford cross this time ,or white faced uns as we say round here.
The bloke who bought them intended to keep them as suckler cows so I'm hoping they are still around .
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Well was at the market today and sold 5 bull calves at 6 months old and they made £500 each they were AAxHF and I was very pleased with that. The dairy bullocks were making a reasonable trade at £240 each. As said before I do this more of a savings plan, the AAxHF calves were a lot bigger investment as I got the dairy bull calves for free with working in the industry.
There was one friesian bull calf, a little cutie still on the milk and he made £25, I used to pick them up for a £1 in the market about six years ago.
Agree with country soul regardless of what you get be it pure dairy or a dairy cross don't get white, they don't make the money for some reason. Gorgeous BB calf today same size as all the others going through the ring made £100 less than the rest.