The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Hillview Farm on April 17, 2014, 09:54:37 am
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Hello all,
I don't want to talk about it too much but we have suffered two more dog attacks within 4 days. Sheep gave been moved away now and the police are dealing with it.
We have lost a last years ewe lamb and now a ewe leaving her four week old lamb behind. She is with my orphan lambs, has cake and hay and we have now added water as she is not taking the bottle.
Can anyone surgest how to get her to accept the bottle? She goes ridged and puts her hear right up, we can get about 100ml down her throat. Don't really want to stomach tube her as she's not unwell but just won't feed :( I know she misses her mum.
Any advice greatly welcome, I'm off for another sob now :(
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Sooooooo sorry to hear that HF :hug:
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Sorry to hear of your problems :(.
Be patient, he might get the hang of it eventually if he gets hungry enough. And he might learn from your other orphan lambs.
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foobar put a post on April 12, struggling to get lambs to bottle feed - SallyintNorth gives a very comprehensive answer if you look back (you can do it in search above).
So sorry to hear about your attacks, really very sorry, messy business, I hope they get caught.
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If she drinks water you may be able to get her to drink milk from a bowl? However I think you are partly struggling because she won't recognise the taste if you are using Lamlac. Have you got a chance of getting some goatsmilk? She may be more likely to accept that?
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I think this was the post from Sally that goosepimple was referring to:
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=44183.msg413582#msg413582 (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=44183.msg413582#msg413582)
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Firstly, so so sorry to hear that you have had more problems with dogs. I know how it feels and I feel for you.
Now, the lamb. 100ml at a time for a newly-orphaned lamb isn't bad. At 4 weeks it'll be eating hay and/or grass, and probably cake too? If you can get it to take a little milk 3 times a day (and note what I said about giving it some tenderness too - it's lost its mum and doesn't understand anything now), it will come round.
I've just recently taken on a month-old pair from a neighbour who's triplet mum had mastitis. The one got onto the bottle on the second day, the other is now (day 5) taking the bottle but I still have to catch it and force the teat into its mouth. ::)
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That's it, you have to catch them, tuck them tightly under your arm (bottom into you so they can't reverse) and put the teat in their mouth. They'll still fight and spit. I've found moving the teat backwards and forwards in their mouths seems to help. Keep the bottle highish, so their neck is stretched up, like it would have been feeding from mum. Body heat milk and a teat you've got warm by running it under the hot tap immediately before feeding seem to help. But it can be a struggle.
Very sorry to hear about the grief you've been having :hug:
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Sorry to hear of dog problems, I could say more but I wouldn't make any friends. I hope the lambs thrive in spite of all this and I hope the police catch and prosecute the dog owner.
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we had 2 lambs loose their mum at 3 weeks old ,both bleeted non stop for 2 days until one lost its voice.One after a struggle one took to the bottle but the other just not interested no matter how much we tried.At this age I don't think stomach tube is the answer.The one that wouldn't take the milk drank water and ate creep feed .Gladly they both made adults and caught up,so don't worry.
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:wave: i would try for a couple of days if no joy give it the best of food you can and adlib . it should be fine . we used to wean motherless lambs at 4 weeks (directions on milk i have just now say 5-6weeks) and they did fine as long as they had plenty creep.theres no point in stressing you or the lamb for the sake of one or two more weeks on milk
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I am very sorry to hear that. We had to rear about 20 lambs in 2012 and a few of them were rather difficult to rear.
Thankfully we had a few mothers who had either lost their lambs or aborted and so we adopted them onto their new mothers. A lamb which has lost his/hers mother and will not suckle can be adopted back onto its mother, or another ewe. However it may eventually get used to being bottle fed. My advice is keep trying,don't give up and see what happens. I hope this helps.
Thanks
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I do agree also with 'langfauld easycare' about creep feeding the lamb on adlib cake.
Anything is worth a try I suppose.
Thanks
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As I understand it, the rumen isn't fully developed until about 6 weeks, which is why we are recommended to keep them on milk until then. So although a younger lamb may be eating creep, it won't be getting the nutritional value out of it.
My own experience is that older (3-4 weeks) lambs who won't take the bottle don't thrive as well as those who do. So I would persevere. With our lambs, it really is only a very tiny minority who won't ever take to the bottle. However, several days to accept it is common; a week not uncommon (with older lambs) and I had one took 10 days, I think.
If you can steel yourself to do it, they'll come around sooner if you keep them a little bit hungry. I have just had to get a month-old pair of lambs onto the bottle for a neighbour whose triplet mum came down with mastitis. The tup lamb took the bottle on the second feed, his sister was more of a challenge. For the first three days they had ad lib hay and a good helping of cake twice a day. Sis was still not taking the bottle so the next day they had just a tiny bit of creep once - but still ad lib hay. Guess what ;). You got it - fifth day, she suddenly liked her milk ;). I still have to catch her and put the teat in her mouth but she guzzles like a good 'un once she has the taste in her mouth.
Oh, and another tip - feed other lambs in front of the awkward cuss. Let it be hungry and running about you and the other lambs as you feed them. Let it watch them feed; most lambs will start to sniff about the lamb that's feeding and it helps to give them the idea that there is food here, that it comes from you and those strange hard plastic thingies. ;)
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to spend hours . stressing the lamb ,risk of choking ,risk of pneumonia if it breaths in milk you are trying to pour down it throat .stressin you and heart ache just no worth it . if it doesnt take it within a couple of days i would leave it ,as long as its eating well . it will need a bit more creep or will take a bit longer to finish .
a more commercial point of view you would be as well selling a slightly lighter lamb for say £50 than spend lots hours ,milk powder etc to get an extra £10 or £20
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to spend hours . stressing the lamb ,risk of choking ,risk of pneumonia if it breaths in milk you are trying to pour down it throat .stressin you and heart ache just no worth it . if it doesnt take it within a couple of days i would leave it ,as long as its eating well . it will need a bit more creep or will take a bit longer to finish .
a more commercial point of view you would be as well selling a slightly lighter lamb for say £50 than spend lots hours ,milk powder etc to get an extra £10 or £20
I don't spend hours. I spend a few minutes each feed time. If it doesn't drink, it doesn't drink. But I keep offering. Not stressing. Calm, quiet, firm but gentle and kind. They nearly always do come round.
From a commercial point of view a healthier lamb that finishes sooner and resists disease better is always worth a little bit of effort. ;)
I wouldn't be so bothered with a fit lamb eating plenty of cake if it's 5 weeks old or older. But a younger lamb, or one not eating much cake, or not very fit, then I would want it to have a good couple of weeks on milk to help it through the stress of the change in its circumstances.
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i dont no how to do the quote thing on this .i agree it would be better to get it drinking for a few more weeks but the point i was trying to make is at 4 weeks it wont starve to death if it doesnt(some never will) . if the lambs standing rigid there is no point forcing it . i do find if there was a couple of others on a bucket they were more likely to join in on it .
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Thats really terrible Rachel :bouquet: I know you dont want to talk about it so I wont say any more on here, but I really do feel for you.
I had 6 orphan lambs 2 years ago who were successfully weaned at 3 weeks of age, all texel crosses...oh wait a sec you have two of them now
They were out in the field from 2 weeks of age and I was struggling to capture them at 3 weeks for a bottle so I just stopped, they all did fine and dandy :thumbsup: they ate plenty of creep which I weaned off them at 6 weeks of age and after that they only had grass.
I would try next time to keep them on milk for 5 weeks but just goes to show 3 weeks at weaning didnt kill them and they all thrived
Goodluck
xxx
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We could do with one of the vets giving an authoritative input here, but my understanding is that the rumen isn't fully developed until 6 weeks, so although they can get by from earlier than that without milk, for optimum health they should have milk up to 6 weeks.
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i dont no how to do the quote thing on this
There's a forum tip about 'doing the quote thing' (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=19130.0). However I don't know if it is still correct for all interfaces - it still works like this for me :)
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Yup milk up to 6 weeks is of course the best, but bottle fed lambs can have a higher incidence of dropping dead from redgut if not weaned around 5 weeks, so if they are taking in a large amount of barley straw/hay/creep at 5 weeks I would rather wean early before one drops dead
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We could do with one of the vets giving an authoritative input here, but my understanding is that the rumen isn't fully developed until 6 weeks, so although they can get by from earlier than that without milk, for optimum health they should have milk up to 6 weeks.
:wave: haha look at me quoting . again agree. the old directions when i was young (not yesterday)used to be to wean from 4 weeks .that has now changed to 6 . but all the lambs bottle reared 20 odd years ago would have been weaned at 4 . a five kilo pail of dried milk was £5(my full pocket money) which was enough for each lamb .bigger bags were cheaper .gave them adlib corsemix
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If an older lamb from experience if eating cake and hay and drinking water nicely we woul d leave be, from the experience a lamb that had got in with another flock and then not retrieved til that flock was gathered (we did try to catch the little mite but couldnt) we tried to get her on the milk but all it did was make her scour lots, so then we had to solve that, so in hindsight regardless of size, if they ve weaned, no point going backwards. but a few weeks old, different situation, like sally i woul d persevere,tiny steps, i find that it takes three to four tries on average for them to get the jist, then we re away. not about forcing but mothering and cajolling xx
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Hi
I would say if you have any ewes with a single lamb which is similar age to them, then it might be a good idea to adopt the lamb onto the other ewe.
Hope this helps
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I don't think I stand a chance of any of my ewes allowing a lamb on at a month old to adopt on and I doubt the lamb would accept her anyway! She's eating cake and hay and the water is going down, she has around 100 ml four times a day and seems fine apart from having extremely strong wee!
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thats good and all the best of luck.
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Sorry to hear about the dog - bl''dy owners! hope that part of the problem gets sorted.
I took a couple of lambs on, they were much younger, but I really tried for days to get one to feed, I'd back her (and me) into a corner and get her to take a bit, she lost all her wool(?) and other problems, I thought 'while she's alive I'll keep trying', one day she just clicked on and after that she was the first there, grew into a big hefty girl.
Trouble is now she's a darn nuisance and wants attention every time she sees me!
Did I read somewher if you rub or tickle above the tail that encourages them cos that's where the mum would nuzzle?
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Yup milk up to 6 weeks is of course the best, but bottle fed lambs can have a higher incidence of dropping dead from redgut if not weaned around 5 weeks, so if they are taking in a large amount of barley straw/hay/creep at 5 weeks I would rather wean early before one drops dead
I agree, if the lamb is being awkward I would get it eating hay and creep ad lib. I wean my tame lambs at 6 weeks, although my last group from this year were weaned a week earlier as I lost one at bang on 5 weeks to bloat/redgut the day before I was going to cut down on milk... sods law...