The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: cwmfarm123 on April 16, 2014, 09:29:52 pm
-
Hi
We have used the eaml pig movement online for approx 18 months now.
So no need for all the paperwork, that we had to use before.
But do any of you piggy people do their own movement records on paper as well as fill in eaml.
Also what do you have your medicine records on - notepads, proper medicine books, or computerised data.
I have my medicine notes in a particular book I keep, but dont keep movement records as think all these are on eaml.
Or should I do paper movement as well.
Should I go to computerised medicine data records, as I need to tidy everything up
What do you use - paper, computer spreadsheets etc
Thanks ruth
-
I use an Excel spreadsheet for a holding register, and then the data online backs this up. I used to use this for the sheep, but now we use Shearwell Farmworks that does it for us, but I still use it for the pigs. Maybe not necessary but I am one of those sad people who likes spreadsheets. You put the number you have at the beginning of the period in the first running total box, then as you sell things/things are born/die etc. it adjusts the numbers for you - again, a bit daft with the pigs (I have 2!) but when I was using it for hundreds of sheep it was great.
-
That looks great thanks
-
For some reason it only give me a quick glance, now it says cant download. Do you have one on excell I could have please. Would be great for me .
Or anyone have something like this I could use on an excell spreadsheet.
Thanks ruth
-
Ruth can you message me your email address and I will email it to you then you should definitely be able to download it?
Louise
-
Bear in mind you have to keep all records in a readable form for six years regardless of whether in that time you stop keeping animals, God love DEFRA/SERAD and its red tape!
Mandy :pig:
Ps they don't accept your computer malfunction as an excuse for not having the records should they want to check which is why I still keep all paper copies of everything!
-
Our local trading standards provides template excel files for the different animal movement books:
http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/info/20074/trading_standards/265/agricultural_holdings_and_livestock_legislation (http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/info/20074/trading_standards/265/agricultural_holdings_and_livestock_legislation)
I use those as I assume they have the right level of detail to keep DEFRA happy!
-
The authorities should accept your eaml as a valid record of your movements, this was agreed at the time eaml was set up.
However on several inspections we have heard of (and one we had ourselves) the TSO's weren't aware of this.
eaml is not perfect, as it relies on the receiver saying they've had the move to create a valid move in the senders records, which then updates the authorities system, they don't look at eaml, they look at a different system (can't remember it's name - I'm getting too old to keep all this in my head!)
So it is better in our view to maintain a movement record.
In any event, authorities won't look at computers, they want a print out, so even with eaml, you'd need to keep paper copies, and esp. if you pigs aren't in the same place as your computer !
An excel spreadsheet is fine
Legally what you need to keep is
name and address of person keeping the records
date of movement
identification or temporary mark
No. pigs
Holding from which moved
Holding to which moved
So columns in an spreadsheet are fine.
BUT keep a printed copy - it is no excuse that your printer had run out of ink !
-
Thanks guys, sorted out an excel spreadsheet today. Paperwork paperwork and more paperwork eh :)
-
I got a good old fashioned book.
-
Since the eAML2 came in, I've been saving all the movement docs, just in case something goes wrong with the BPEX website and the archive section is lost.
re. medicine records, I had the pleasure of a "routine" Trading Standards inspection about two months ago (my fault for turning up at the abattoir on the one day of the year they were doing spot checks).
Anyway, it seems my existing computerised records weren't good enough, because the form they are now sending out to livestock keepers now extends to two pages.
I've attached what they sent me as a template. Hope this helps. This is from Caerphilly CBC in south Wales, by the way.
Liz
-
Thank you Liz ..... some stuff on here I don't do thus far..... may have to extend to 2 pages too!!
-
Thanks Liz,
Its virtually the same as my Animal Meds book so I should be ok but I have downloaded it for future reference.
-
TT,
Of course the bit at the end is the key
'Columns headed in italics relate to information which is NOT a statutory requirement ' and ‘These are general guidance notes only, and cannot be taken as an authoritative view of the law’.
So five of the columns are not needed even on their interpretation.
Much of the other info is either not required by law, or not required to be kept in this form. For instance there is no requirement for telephone numbers, email addresses, holding no.’s etc. to be in medical records. Nor do purchases of medicines have to be put in books, you merely need to keep proof of purchase eg receipts, or note how disposed of so apart from disposals page 1 is not a legal requirement at all!
Whilst I would not want to put people off keeping these records, and indeed it will help on an inspection to have a page which records all your purchases, as usual officialdom likes to frighten people rather than take a sensible approach.
For the anal among you, the relevant bits of legislation are below:
The Veterinary Medicines Regulations 2013
Para 17
17. The keeper of a food-producing animal must keep proof of purchase of all veterinary medicinal products acquired for the animal (or, if they were not bought, documentary evidence of how they were acquired).
18. A veterinary surgeon who administers a veterinary medicinal product to a food-producing animal must either enter the following information personally in the keeper’s records or give it to the keeper in writing (in which case the keeper must enter the following into those records)—
(a)the name of the veterinary surgeon;
(b)the name of the product and the batch number;
(c)the date of administration of the product;
(d)the amount of product administered;
(e)the identification of the animals treated; and
(f)the withdrawal period.
19. (1) When a veterinary medicinal product is bought or otherwise acquired for a food-producing animal the keeper must, at the time, record—
(a)the name of the product and the batch number;
(b)the date of acquisition;
(c)the quantity acquired; and
(d)the name and address of the supplier.
(2) At the time of administration (unless the administration is by a veterinary surgeon in which case the record must be in accordance with regulation 18) the keeper must record—
(a)the name of the product;
(b)the date of administration;
(c)the quantity administered;
(d)the withdrawal period; and
(e)the identification of the animals treated.
(3) A keeper who disposes of any or all of the veterinary medicinal product other than by treating an animal must record—
(a)the date of disposal;
(b)the quantity of product involved; and
(c)how and where it was disposed of.
20. The keeper of a food-producing animal must keep the documentation on the acquisition of a veterinary medicinal product and the records relating to the product for at least five years following the administration or other disposal of the product, irrespective of whether or not the animal concerned is no longer in that keeper’s possession or has been slaughtered or has died during that period.
The method of keeping of records comes under The Animals and Animal Products (Examination for Residues and Maximum Residue Limits) Regulations 1997 under section 32 which states
(7) The requirement in paragraph (4) above to keep records in a legible form is not to be taken to prevent their being kept by means of computer.
(8 Where a record is so kept, the duty under paragraph (5) above to produce it for inspection, is a duty to produce it in a form in which it can be taken away.
-
Yes, I was bright enough to spot that the bits in italics weren't mandatory, Oaklands.
-
Hi liz I can't seem to download this file, do you have an excel file you can send me please of the medicine book, or anybody else that has converted it to excel doc.
cwmfarm@hotmail.co.uk
Thank you - all headwork eh lol :innocent:
Ruth
-
Hi Ruth. I'll email it to you now x
-
Yes, I was bright enough to spot that the bits in italics weren't mandatory, Oaklands.
Wasn't aimed specifically at you :)