The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: ballingall on September 26, 2009, 11:31:01 pm
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They have been a lot of threads recently about goats, and housing/fencing, so I thought I would post up our arrangements of our own goatshed.
When we first moved here 4 years ago, we had to move the goats into a single and a half garage, and a wooden shed of roughly the same size. There were 6 very large outdoor dog runs, made out of corrugated iron and stock fencing, but they were too run down to put any goats in. We were also hampered by the fact that we had no money for 9 months after we moved in, because we didn't get funds from our old property until that time!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/Ayr027MediumSmallWinCE.jpg)
Just to prove, you can keep goats in a garage! We had 5 pens in that garage, plus our old metal feed bin!
One thing we are very aware of, is the fact that we might have to re-sell again in a few years time, due to personal reasons. For that reason, we try and make the stuff we have added suitable for anything.
So in October 3 years ago, we built our goat shed, having demolished the dog runs, and having moved the wooden shed into the field, it was in the way of where the new shed was going, but we still needed it until the new shed was built.
We chose a builder in our nearest village, though chance as it happened, I found their stand at the Royal Highland Show. We wanted a shed 20 foot across by 60 foot long, with big doors at the top to allow us to unload feeding, hay and straw easily, and also a smaller stable type door at the side, for easier access. We went for one big shed, on the basis it was a more flexible space. Also if we wanted to resell, it could be a shed for livestock, for horses with a couple of looseboxes fitted internally, for a workshop, or as a garage.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCN1567.jpg)
The start of building. Look at that mud!
The shed is made out of wood batons, about 4" by 2" on 3 sides. This only goes up to about 4.5ft, and the wood fits into steel slots. This is so, if a panel of wood gets rotten, or gets too chewed by the goats, it can then just be taken out and replaced. The top half of the building, and the front big doors are just covered in Green corrugating sheeting.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCN1595.jpg)
And as the shed was just finished.
We opted to use hurdles, again, so our penning for the goats could be as flexible as possible. It means we can make a bigger pen for lots of kids to all live together, or if we want we can pen all milkers separately. We ordered hurdles from Modulamb in Coventry, as they also did gated hurdles. My mother has arthritis in her ankles and climbing into pens over hurdles isn't easy, so we ordered a number of ordinary hurdles, but 4 ft high. Plus we ordered 8 gated hurdles, and 4 sheeted hurdles.
When the hurdles arrived, they were unloaded at the bottom of the driveway (might even have been before the driveway was concreted in actually!), so we had to move them. Well, the man from Modulamb had unloaded them all on his own. It took 3 people to carry the gated hurdles up to the goatshed they are so heavy. Even now if I am rearranging pens in the shed I can only drag the sheeted and gated hurdles.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3141.jpg)
Gated hurdles.
I have to say, even though they are so heavy, they are fantastic. It was so worthwhile getting them. They were quite expensive, but I am glad we spent the extra money. The sheeted hurdles have too proved worth their weight in gold. We use them at the end of a block of pens to cut out drafts for the goats, but also it stops them poking their heads through! So we have them beside when we keep their food, and the milking bench. We also use the sheeted hurdles to prevent the billy becoming too amorous as it means he a solid partition in between him and the goats.
Here are some pictures I took last week in the shed.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3136.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3140.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3139.jpg)
The billy goat- you can see he has a sheeted hurdle at the side there.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3142.jpg)
Room in the shed to store big bales of hay and straw- less room just now as we have extra goats!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3147.jpg)
A shot from our field, it shows our old wooden shed which is now a field shelter, with the goatshed in the background.
We don't have that much land here, not much over an acre really. However the field isn't grazed bare by the goats. We are in a damp area, and we don't put the goats out all the time. They are inside every day from about 6:30pm, and we don't put them out all, even in summer, if it is raining hard. The billy does however, go out in the evening and in good weather (when do we get that?!) he stays out in the field all night. Our fencing is standard 3.5 foot high stock fencing, with a single strand of wire along the top. We haven't ever had anyone escape from the field, which just goes to prove goats are not really escape artists! We do however have double fencing round the field, which means that our goats and the sheep in the next door field cannot touch noses. Makes us a little more protected from diseases, and also movement restrictions.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/ballingall/DSCF3146.jpg)
To be fair, our goats are pampered, they are more our pets and showing them is our hobby. Although that said, they do have to work hard, we don't like to keep a goat that isn't earning its keep. Therefore we expect our females to milk, and to milk well. I would expect at least 4 kilos/ litres a day from any of our goats at their peak yield, and generally would expect 6 or 7 kilos/litres from a second kidder.
We have an area in the shed where we keep their food, in barrels generally. This area also holds a milking bench, and the goats come out of their pen, up on the bench and stand to get milked. The bench is wooden and was made by my brother in law. We don't feed them whilst they are getting milked, we prefer them to stand naturally, and they will happily chew away at the cud.
I can't think of anything else to say now!
Beth
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That was great reading Beth, thank you. I know I have seen your place but reading how you did it all was fascinating. When you do move I hope it won't be too far away from us.
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Fantastic post Beth, even better than I recognised some of your goats ;D
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V interesting... and gorgeous goats!
:goat:
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What a lovely set up you have!! Very sensible too, as I know how goats can be destructive with lesser materials, so what you have done is ideal.
I would love a shed like that, but planning here is hard to get unfortunately.
Two of my goats live out all the time, but have an open fronted shelter to go in and out as they please - they had been used to doing that when they came to me. The other goats, well, Paddy and Jasmine jump from the field, and set off up the other field to go to bed once it goes dark, so not sure they will ever want to stay out.
Does your billy goat not mind staying out on his own? Obviously not!! My two billies are still with the females they arrived with, but will have to be parted, which means two separate houses and pens for them, and they will have to be strong.
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I am getting confused. ??? You have a lovely set up with your goats and they are let out in a field from just after milking to about 6.30pm. Did I get that right. I want to keep goats (just 2) but have been getting conflicting messages as to how big an area they need. My space for inside and out will be about the size of your shed. (Surburbian dweller). Now, one book says that you need 1/4 acre per goat, then in the same book it says that if you want to raise them inside all the time you need 6' x 6'. I know that I will have to bring in goodies for them. But I look at the area and think, is it or isn't it big enough. Help please!! :cat: :chook: :goat:!!!!!!!
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I think it is best to give any animal as much space as possible - I think your space may be too small. The 6 x 6 would be acceptable for housing purposes only, again depending on what size of goats you had.
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Well, I think 6 x 6 is rather small, but yes, its possible, if you bring all their food in. I used to run 8 goats on about a third of an acre, but only let them out a few hours, otherwise it would have been very bare. I did bring in lots of leaves and grass, and ad lib hay though.
Goats adapt to a system, but to be fair, if they are stood in a tiny space full time, its rather boring and they will probably try and escape.
I am sure you will be able to compromise on how you can keep your goats - lots of people manage on a small space, and so long as they have plenty of food, the goats will be fine.
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A total space about the size of our shed would be fine, for only a couple of goats, I don't think my best friend has much more space than that for their goats. With that size, I would look to have a shed for them, a 9ft by 6ft pen is ample room for two goats, though you might want to allow for say 5 x 4 each, so that you could split them into two pens if one was about to kid for example. 5 x 4ft is ok for a short length of time, even for 2/3 weeks for before and after kidding. Then personally I would slab or concrete an area right outside the shed to be a small turnout yard. And finally, I would hope to be able to have a wee patch of grass. Our hurdles are 6ft long, so the smallest pen we generally have is 6x 6ft, which we do sometimes keep 2 goats in, but only if they are the smaller breeds, and if they get on well (or are young). A downside of small pens, is that the manure accomulates in them pretty quickly, and they need mucked out more frequently. We more generally keep 2 adult milkers if they are sharing in a pen and a half, which is 9ft by 6ft.
I think you would have enough room.
Beth
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PS- thanks for all the comments about the thread. I must post some better pictures of the goats at some point.
Beth
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I have spotted a Simple Systems Greengold feed bag in one of your pics .....do you feed it to the goats? I use their feeds for my ponies, and the goats enjoy the lucie stalks mixed with their goat mix, and the purabeet.
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That bag isn't actually a Simple System bag- it's a bag of Halley's Greengold. However by googling it, it seems as if Halley's sells to Simple System and they rebrand it. Simple System's website says " a discerning Scot makes it" http://www.simplesystem.co.uk/products/feeds.asp?id=1&name=Lucerne%20Products (http://www.simplesystem.co.uk/products/feeds.asp?id=1&name=Lucerne%20Products)
Halley's is based just outside Perth, and we first met him a few years back when he was just starting up and he gave all the local goatkeepers free samples at the shows. We feed it as we prefer it to Dengie Alfafa, and it is a higher protein level, the goats like it better then the Dengie Alfafa too. Sadly, he doesn't give us free samples anymore :( We generally feed it as a separate feed, especially in winter, gives them an extra feed and breaks up the day when they are shut in. I even mix a little of it into the rabbit and guinea pigs food mix.
We also viewed James Halley's house at Methven (the farm where they operate from is next door). It was beautiful house, but it had been advertised as having "outbuildings", they turned out to only be properly built kennels. They had deliberately not advertised them as kennels, as they didn't want anyone buying it who would start a kennels or cattery. But kennels aren't big enough to keep goats in!
Beth
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It is a few pounds dearer than Alfa A, but I have to agree the animals do like it!!! The man who delivers the feed to me, told me the Greengold is extremely popular and they sell lots of it. I have been stocking up, becuase by the end of winter it has all sold out!!
lol at the kennels. Doubt my large goats would squeeze themselves in there!!!
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PS- thanks for all the comments about the thread. I must post some better pictures of the goats at some point.
Beth
Let me know if you'd like me to visit with some camera kit at some point :)
On another note, what do you do with any milk not used to feed the bairns?
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On another note, what do you do with any milk not used to feed the bairns?
Sell it to me for my puppies - I hope! ;D ;D
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We throw too much milk away! We use it ourself in the house (I have no idea how much milk from a supermarket costs!), also we give the chicks and ducklings bread and milk, even mix some milk in if we are making up layers mash for the big chooks. I'll need to start skimming some to make butter, now we have stopped feeding this years kids. Oh and we supply my sister's cats every so often too!
Annie, you are welcome to milk for the puppies, we do sometimes sell/trade it to people for them to feed orphan lambs, puppies etc.
Calum, you'd be welcome to visit sometime. :)
Beth
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You throw goats milk away? What is this blasphemy against the great goat god!
Butter sounds good... a chevre blanc or smoked bavarian style of cheese sounds better though ... hint hint 8)
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Calum - you buy Beth's milk and make the cheese and the rest of us in CSSA will buy it! Or you can bring it to the AGM for our Christmas feast!
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Now that is an interesting thought. I don't have room to keep goats here, so I'll make do with chickens (next year, I hope) and a beehive (if I can pacify my neighbour who is unfortunately allergic to honey bee sting) with the intent of goats being my first larger livestock when I have more land. And my plan for that point is certainly to make cheese with the milk!
I think it's time to read up on how to make goat's cheese and see if I have the space/environment to start learning while here...
*Edit* oooh, basic goats cheese looks incredibly simple and fairly fast to make!
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Wonderful shed. Can I ask if you had much trouble getting planning consent? We have just, finally, got planning consent for something similar but open on one side. We have just over 6 acres and rent another 7 acres (which the planners would not take into consideration). We have 7 Dexter cows (some are calves), a ram and 3 ewes plus their lambs, 1 Kune Kune boar and 4 breeding females plus piglets. We needed storage for hay and straw and implements including the tractor plus somewhere to house sheep or cows if needed for health purposes.
We had a devil of a job getting permission and I firmly believe it was only because the original planning lady went off sick with stress (our application perhaps?) and another took over that we finally got it. We are in Somerset.
Di
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Hi Di,
We didn't have many problems with planning, no. We live in Central (or Falkirk) region, and if its an agricultural building you don't need to get planning permission. You do need to notify your next door neighbours or landowners to give them a chance to object. And you need to do an agricultural notification to the planning dept at the council, but you can actually do that after the building is up. We did originally look into a stable type building, but you actually more planning work to get that than just an agricultural shed!
Sorry to hear you've had so many problems, its shocking that there are such differences in planning from area to area.
Beth
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my plan for that point is certainly to make cheese with the milk!
I think it's time to read up on how to make goat's cheese and see if I have the space/environment to start learning while here...
oooh, basic goats cheese looks incredibly simple and fairly fast to make!
I'll vouch for that!! But be warned, the heating, cooling, curding takes much longer than you think so be prepared for abit of a wait. Its worth it though, especially with herbs or black pepper
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Noted, thank you :)
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The planning issue is the joy of living in Scotland. In England the permitted development rights for agricultural buildings are limited if you have less than 5 hectares. Up here as long as you have more than 0.4 hectares you are fine - a legacy of crofting I presume.
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I've Seen That this topic was a month from last reply,
But, If you Don't Mind me asking,
Where do you Milk the Goats?
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us?
IN the kitchen, on the tiled bit. In the summer, out of the pen but out on the grass (if there's no flies or cats around)
She wears a collar and lead and has a feed bucket but needs regular top-ups of raisons, bananas, cornflakes to keep her interested. And then gets her walk round, browse and visits the pigs and rabbits (and scares the odd passer-by!)
I keep threatening to build a contained milking stall/platform thingy (cant think of the word!) but knowing Margo, she'd refuse to go near it!
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We just use an area in our shed. We have an area where we keep the barrels of food etc, and also in that area is a wooden milking bench which my brother in law built for us. It was his first attempt, and he made it a bit too wide, so we sit sideways on the bench next to the goat to milk. If the bench was narrower, we would have used a chair in front of the bench, which we did at our old place.
Our goats don't get food while they are being milked. They do get used to the bench very quickly, a hurdle sits along the back of the bench, and we can tie them up to the hurdle, but once they are used to it, they don't even need tied up. They jump up onto the bench with no problems.
They are also used to being milked in the pasageway, with whoever is milking them sitting on a stool. Thats because in the evening there can easily be two people milking goats at once, and there's only one bench! Plus, thats how they get milked at shows, so it helps keep them used to that.
I know some people who show, who have a totally different rountine when milking at a show than they use at home, which I don't agree with. We use stainless steel milking buckets at a show, so we always use them at home. We are looking at getting a milking machine, but we will always continue to milk by hand as well to make sure they are still used to it for shows.
I'll try to take some pictures of the bench etc.
Beth
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Bet, what times are they milked? I might invite myself over to be taught how to do it if you don't mind? Not at teh moment - whent eh weather is a bit warmer. ::) ::) ::) Don't fancy sitting in the cold milking a goat.
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It depends what we're doing generally. But any time between about 7- 9 both morning and evening. Generally that translates to about 7:30am and about 8pm. But thats partly cause of the time I go to and get home from work ect.
You'd be more than welcome to come and learn- the grandchildren too if they want.
Beth
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That sounds like a good SPRING project! ;D ;D ;D