The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: Jess2011 on January 31, 2014, 09:28:19 pm
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Last year I allowed my lavender pekin to sit on 2 batches of eggs. The first batch saw only one chick hatch and the second none. I allowed the 2nd batch to stay with her for quite a few days after the expected hatching date to see what happened but after about 4 days I found what looked at first to be 6 dead chicks but looking closer they were still in the 'foetal' position but opened out a bit. They were fluffy and looked very much full term. I am assuming that she pecked the shells off - especially as I could find no large pieces of shell , but were already dead due to not being able to break out.
I hatched the father of these in an incubator and out of 8 eggs only he and his brother hatched and I was forced to help them out as they had only just pipped and been trying to get out for a long long time - possibly over a day - I can't remember now. I know if I hadn't they would have died. The remaining eggs never hatched and didn't even pip, despite rocking and cheeping.
The question I would like to ask is this - Is it worth trying to hatch some in the incubator? She has already started to lay and the cockerel has been active all winter!
I don't want to set myself up for more distress but would love to hatch some, this time in an incubator. Is there anything I could do so the shells aren't so hard or is that how it is?
Also, I don't help chicks out of their shells unless I am absolutely sure they will die if I don't. I once broke off a piece of shell and it bled but thank goodness I stopped ( and prayed - hard! lol) and it was fine. Has anyone helped them out if they have been rocking and cheeping for a long time and you just know they aren't going to manage to pip? If so how do you know where to start and what do you use and what method?
I know this a very controversial subject - helping a chick out of it's shell - some people would never do it - some are too quick to do it and some like me, will do it only to save the chick's life. So far, touch wood , no chick that I have helped out has gone on to have health problems or short lives. Not to say this will never be of course.
I would be really grateful for you advice.
Anne
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I've no experience of Pekins so not sure if this is something they are prone to. How old is the mother of the eggs?
did the dead chicks have any shell on them? if they were incy hatched I'd be suspicious of the humidity but broody eggs should be fine.
I did help some chicks hatch once. I had an awful incubator that was impossible to get the humidity right on. After 36 hours I had 5/7 still struggling to get out of the shell. Three made it and two I culled. It's not something I'd judge anyone on doing-for me they'd come that far and I was positive the incy was at fault. All three that survived are hardy, well grown birds that won't be bred from anyway.
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There is some info here
http://www.darkbrowneggs.info/#/helping-eggs-to-hatch/4555348326 (http://www.darkbrowneggs.info/#/helping-eggs-to-hatch/4555348326)
Generally it is not so much the shell being thick per se that causes the problem but thick shelled eggs do not loose as much moisture as the more porous shells, so when it comes to hatching time the shell is too full of chick to allow it to get its head from under its wing in order to internally pip, and in the worst case there is so much moisture that it drowns as it internally pips.
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The mother hen was only 15 months old and they were under her. There was a couple of the chicks with part of the shell missing but still curled up inside. Pekins are usually ok hatchers. I hatched about a dozen Pekins the year before and apart from the lavenders of which only 2 hatched from that batch of eggs, only one of the rest didn't hatch. As the lavenders were in with the others it couldn't have been down the incubator. It could be that particular strain of lavender Pekin that is causing the problems - especially as the 2 that hatched had to helped out.
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ah thankyou - that's very interesting. I will read the article. Come to think of it, one of the chicks I helped out had to eventually have all the shell taken off before it could unfold so that would make sense.
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Don't forget it was an exceedingly damp and humid year last year which made everything that much more difficult. I think a lot of folk experienced poor hatch rates due to the dampness of everything.
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It was. I read a lot about hatching problems last year. There are those that hatch completely dry - most until the last few days, but others all the way.
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I would try 2 things 1 hatch dry and the other soak in warm water 3 days to go. I have folks eggs and its dawn to incubater and humidatey as for helping them out they will always be weak . Is the parent stock close you need to plan youre breed best hen none related cock bird. Im doing some silkies large for a project i will breed 50 and onley use 5 of the best true to breed then i will find a cock bird that has a good pedigre .The next thing breed for size . I hope this has helpt.
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Thankyou that is helpful - so would you hatch dry right till the end or hatch dry up till 3 days to go then soak eggs ? They were totally unrelated. I hatched the cockerel and bought the hen in .
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I know for waterfowl it's pretty common practice to run dry and spray once a day so you can try that. I had all sorts of problems with hatching last year so I'm hoping it'll be easier this year. I decided to intervene if a chick/duckling managed to externally pip and didn't appear to be progressing and that seemed to work - I only lost one after they'd hatched - but I did lose a lot that got close to full term, peeping and couldn't internally pip :( (and that included quite a few under broodies too). Hoping for more luck this year.
H
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I find it so upsetting to think the poor little things can't get out - it makes me feel helpless. Yes, I only help out if they have pipped and not progressed for ages - I just can't sit back and allow them to die. I know that there is a chance they may die anyway but at least they have had a fighting chance. As I said in my original post its a very controversial subject. We all want the best for them no matter which way we choose.
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Dont give up jess just tweek whot has been said.yes full term dry .I think its luck some times.We used to hatch 500 a time and had 97 percent and some times disaster.Iv looked at my records and in 2010 the birds wernt fertile till the end of april.Ther is 3 big breeders and we get hens in condition late november to hatch new yare .We have 3 pens full naw and growing .
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Thankyou - I won't give up. I think I may get some hatching eggs to put under her when she begins to sit and leave her with a few of her own just incase there is a genetic reason for them not hatching. I may put some in the incubator at the same time so that when any of those hatch I can sneak them under her to rear with her own ( fingers crossed).
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I'm new to hatching and think I've been very lucky so far. I hatched 2 batches from different sources last year. The first batch were very successful with only 2 not hatching and these were infertile anyway, the second hatch wasn't so good,with 8 not hatching of which 6 were infertile, 2 dead in shell. Of this hatch I helped 2 out after they'd been struggling 12 hours or so. Thought I'd give them a chance as they were obviously getting weaker. One was so stuck in the membrane that he would never have got out alone, and he died within 12 hours, the other had membrane stuck to the head making it difficult to hatch out. She's a healthy, strong hen now(albeit with a bare patch on her head!). I've got some in my inch now, so fingers crossed!!!
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My first hatch was excellent too . I put six eggs in and got 5 healthy chicks out with one being infertile. It' lulls you into false sense of security ' doesn't it lol! I would always help a chick out of it's shell if it had been struggling for a very long time - by this time there is little to lose.
Good luck with eggs in the incy - it's so incredible watching those little souls breaking out of their shells.
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Last year the humidity was so high the chicks were getting too big to break out. I used to get hatching eggs from The Wernlas Collection (now sadly retired) and they never added water. They maintained that a lot of incubators come from places like Italy where the air holds much less moisture than it does on this wet and windy island!