The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: HappyHippy on August 17, 2009, 02:18:31 pm
-
Okay, here's a situation for you !
Second daughter's first day of school and the chatty mums are all looking more chatty & aggitated than normal, upon enquiring as to the source of this somewhat neurotic chatter I'm told that there's a man in the playground who's been conviced of rape and interfereing with young girls, spent time in prison for it and is on the sex offenders register.
Now, he was there with his wife, dropping off his son for his first day, which I suppose he's entitled to do - but he went right into the classroom and had been taking photos. (I should add that he's still got his kids, 2 boys, becauce the court feels he's not a risk to young boys and his wife's a social worker)
The school's official line is that they've upped security - key locks and cameras on both doors and playground assistants to supervise at all times.
Obviously the police won't discuss the in's and out's of his individual case and what he can and can't do with me.
The mum's are drawing up a petition - but I'm unsure as to what this will achieve. I certainly don't want to see his kids run out of school because of their father.
What would you do ?
Should I be worried ?
I'm counting on all of you for some frank talking & advice ???
-
I can understand parents problems and can see matters from all sides.
1. I find it wrong that anyone can take photos in the classroom, that is what would concern me, most people take photos of their child ready for school on the first day and maybe outside the school gates.
2.He has served his sentance and has been risk asessed not saying things don't go wrong but unless people know the full details of his case people should not jump to conclusions, I know of a young teenager with mild learning difficulties who was put on the sex offenders register for pinching a girls bum! Once your on that register y ou are on it for life!!!
3.The family must be well aware of the situation and will pick up the predjudice it may be a good idea for a private meeting, with the school head, the man and his wife and a representative from the parents, so they can air thier views. The man need not divulge what he has/hasn't done but can at least put some clarity on things.
4. My concern would be grooming young girls by getting to know them really well, a lot of peodophiles go out of thier way to be cool, trendy and chatty to children!!!!
5. Take the oppertunity for a family discussion on the matter, not about the man but a simple chat about sex offenders!!! My computor is now being silly so no spell check
-
I think it is a horrible situation for you all to be in and don't know what to do for the best although Sandy's suggestions make sense. I fear that the people most hurt by petitions etc will be the offenders poor kids! Let us know what happens, I hope all goes well.
-
Not sure what went wrong but OK now.
I remember when pictures of know sex offenders was put in newspapers, my brother went mad, he said as he lived alone people may think one looks like him!!!!! wrong accusations spin out of controle easily like Chinese whispers. At least you are aware of the man, even if he poses no threat, BUT, there are a lot of sex offenders who have not been found out, how many of them are working with your children!!! I worked with many family's who had family members suspected of abuse but as there was no evidence, nothing was done...much more worrying. p.s. I would be worried too
-
It does kind of depend on the circumstances of the conviction and when it happened.
If he is a risk to the girls in the playground, the s/o register and conditions of release should reflect this.
So maybe he shouldn't even be there but dont know if police/probation/social services would divulge this to you or to the school. Ask the head what is in place for monitering and protecting all the kids, there should be something.
Yes it is a worry, but as already said, many others are not convicted or monitered, so all kids and parents should take care
-
Thanks for your replys.
James, I agree that I'd hate his kids to be victimised or suffer unfair treatment.
I'm not one to go in all guns blazing for a confrontation and certainly don't want to go jumping on the 'manhunt' bandwagon.
Sandy, so glad you replied - knew social work was your speciality. The school has always had an open photography policy, it is a small village school and I suppose there's never been a need to change it - I suspect it will be getting changed VERY soon.
I know he's served his sentance, but was only recently released - it all seems VERY fresh.
He's not someone who strikes me as being able to appear 'cool, trendy or chatty' - I hate being stereotypical, but when I picture a paedophile he's exactly like that - old, grey and sick looking and he's definately keeping well away from everyone else in the playground, I'll be checking that it stays like that !
The family meeting to discuss sex offenders seems like SUCH a good idea, but my kids are only 4 and 6, still babies in my eyes. I hate the thought of having to tell them that people like this exist in the world and make them untrusting of people, they're both so sociable little girls (but then i suppose so were the victims) I'll have to bite the bullet as they say and broach SOMETHING with them, strangers and inappropriate touching maybe ?
Thanks for your responses, keep them coming.
I'll keep you up to date as things progress.
-
I would say you can never be too careful these days when young children may be at risk. Yes he has served his time but these people pray on young minds as they are easy targets so how do you know if he will not be tempted again. I am surprised at the school on the photo taking as I thought all that was stopped. All you can do is be aware and listen to what your children talk about. His own kids need to enjoy their school years just as much as anyone else but I expect they will pick up what is being said over the years and suffer in the long run.
-
Children are never too young, you will need to taylor what you say, don't worry them too much but use words they understand and, it's not usualy a stranger to the child, uncles, parents, siblings and other children. Tell them that thier private parts are not for others to touch and if they do not like something tell mummy or daddy. Then you can find some books with simple pictures that show appropriate situations like in Hospital, Dr's and Nurses (not pretend ones)
I remember one teenage young man (15) tell me he had lost his virginity at 10 to the girl next door who was 4!!!!! and he saw nothing wrong, need I say that he is now a well known sex offender!!!! I also remember warning a Foster carer not to leave her grandchildren unsupervised with a 13 year old, she did and he abused her, she was 3, needless to say the Foster Carer was struck off and no doubt the little girl and the family devistated...sorry for that, no more, I promise ;) By the way, I am very experienced but not qualified, I had to have work overseen and assisted qualified Social Workers, do not want to go back to it as it is very difficult to do the what you think right, read this link :- http://uk.news.yahoo.com/blog/talking_politics/article/56653/
-
I would say your rightly concerned,as you do not know the full circumstates.
I would say try to have a meeting with the school head. an take it from there.
-
I'd be concerned too. Speaking as a victim I probably have a biased view tho. I agree that his children have a right to an innocent childhood. How about meeting with the head and/or board of governers and expressing your concerns in a calm manner and ask if any provisions can be put in place to allay parents (justified) concerns. I would be demanding to know why he was in the school taking photos. As far as I was aware you had to have visitor cards and be signed in and all sorts to be in a school theses days. Due to my experiences I would probably seriously consider moving my kids but thats really not that easy and would just be pandering to my fears.
I'm not sure if that helps, sorry. ???
-
I think photographs have to be agreed on each term by all parents, at least in our school. Do raise this issue with the head and the School Board/parent council! I would not be happy under these circumstances to have my kids photographed at school. :&>
-
Hi HH yes I would be worried. I think parents council reps should have an urgent meeting with the head to clarify the situation with parents being in playground/classrooms. The head can then speak to the police on the parents behalf. My wife is a teacher in a primary school in the Gorbals area of Glasgow and no parents are allowed in those areas unless with a member of staff or with an appointment. And no one is allowed to take photographs of children within the school.
Being on the Sex Offendors Register only requires the individual to register with the police in the area he lives in. Thats it.There are no more conditions other than that. And the length of time on the register depends on the length of prison sentence served.
Unfortunately there is no such thing as a stereotypical paedophile, they come from all walks of life.
Its such a shame this has happened on what should have been a very happy day for your family. At least you know he is there and can take extra care.
JD
-
In addition to talking to the head teacher, I would also suggest that you either individually or as part of the parents group, write to the director of education. You do not need to be demanding or difficult but just ask for the Education Services Child protection policy and how the service will ensure your child's safety. I think that these situations are sometimes a huge burden for a head teacher who needs support and communication with the support services within the council. These support services are also available to you as parents and your children. the most difficult part of such a delicate situation is getting everybody to be vigilant and stay vigilant and to make sure that everybody takes the utmost care in the most professional way -
I really feel for you all -- children have the right to an innocent childhood and parents have so many things to worry about.
-
Thanks everyone for being so honest & supportive.
I don't want to be a paranoid, neurotic mother nor do I want to be one who blindly allows her kids to be put in a dangerous situation.
I think a meeting with the head and an urgent review of photography policy is called for, will be penning a letter tonight.
I've spoken to Rebecca, who's 6, in general terms about it and I'm confident she's ok and understands, but Kaitlin, who's 4, is my main concern - I just don't think she's old enough to understand yet, maybe I'm not giving her enough credit. I'm just sooooo glad we stay in the middle of the country and my kids aren't playing in the village. I may only be 31, but it's a world away from how things were when I was that age, I may just have to start my sentances with "in my day......." from now on.
-
if the person has followed the correct guidelines and registered with the police then they will have a police-legagion office who'll now the case and will be able to advise you properly on the situation that has arrised.
If they havn't then you have altered the police of the situation and then they can set one up :)
give the local police station a call (on their local number ) and see what they say if they say nothing then make time and go in to your local branch which is man 24/7.
Linz
-
I doubt the police will be able to say much other than general guide lines due Data protection and privacy laws that protect everyone. I would not like people going to the police station to ask about crimes I have comminted...NONE may I add :D Right, here I go again...sorry. I used to visit hostels and one in particular held several sex offenders, all just out of prison and they were directly opposite an infant School!!! I also worked in a private care home, again, majority were sex offenders, they were in a village and were all, except one, allowed out freely and th ey had mental health problems as well!!!
-
no i didn't mean find out about the crime i ment what was happenning and was measure where being put in place etc.
-
I would be worried.
I would have a meeting with the Head, but they will be limited to what they can do in this situation.
I really would find it difficult not to go to the local police and mention that this person was taking photographs in the classroom.
I would not be able to live with myself if I didn't do this, because at least if the police go to his house, and speak to him about taking the photo's in a school, which I believe could be illegal now, he will realise that he is being watched.
Most offenders of this crime do it again, I have studied figures as part of a social science course that I am doing. A visit from the Police may make this person more reluctant to do any further crimes - plus they may be able to take photos from him of children that are not his, therefore protecting the kids in the class at this school.
It is an awful position to be in - but I would do the above, before I would change schools - why should your children have to move schools - they are not ex-criminals - he is, and serving time does not mean that the mental or anti-social problems he had that made him commit in the first place, have been wiped away.
We will all feel differently on this - but I would have to protect my daughter and her school friends as much as I possibly could.
Julie
-
I too am very concerned about the photographs, I thought permission was required to take any photos of children in Schools!!!
-
I did telephone local police yesterday, they asked for his name and the school and said they would pass the details on to the relevant people.
Funny enough, he wasn't there today.
The school is looking at their photography policy and we're taking steps to organise a meeting with the head and a letter to the local education authority.
Thanks again everybody ;D
-
Its normally down to school/education centre policy
With t we got a letter about a year ago asking if he could be pictured in a workshops promo.
linz
-
hope this has easied your mind a bit
-
Sounds a lot of pony to me.
I think it best somehow to find out if he really IS the person some ' mums ' are saying he is. Facts are sorely needed here, not petitions and mums idle playground chit chat.
Ask one of the mums how she knows he is a sex offender, and get her to back up her claims.
Hopefully they have their facts right, as if it is not true and I was that man , I would sue everyone who uttered the words.
Do you REALLY think that if the school head knew this man was on the sex offenders list, he would be allowed near the school, let alone loose in a class with a camera ?
He is a sex offender and his wife is a social worker.. ergh ?
Kevin
-
Kev, I agree and say better the devil you know than the devil you don't know!!!! Just one point, I have always been amazed how laxed some people are when it comes to security etc so not sure the School staff would keep him out even if he was a risk!!!
-
Okay, an update on the situation.
I had a meeting with the head yesterday (only 3 other parents have even bothered to go and see him!)
The man IS on the sex offenders register. He was convicted over 20 years ago and spent 20 years in prison before being released for a wrongfull conviction ??? However, shortly after leaving prison he exposed himself to a young girl and got locked back up (now what does this say about the prison service if he was innocent, then came out and started offending ? Reformed - my arse!)
Anyway's the heads hands are very much tied as to what he can do, he can't have a public meeting about it, he CAN'T stop the man coming into the playground or school when dropping off and collecting his kids, he CAN'T stop him taking photos (although he's going to suggest to the man that he allows the school to photograph his kids on his behalf to prevent the need for him to bring a camera into the school) and he can't stop him coming to events held by the school (this is what the head has been told by the police)
Obviously the head is extremely concerned (can I add at this point that it's a male head teacher) and has made it clear to me that under no circumstances will this man ever have involvement with the children. He has a member of staff next to him at all times and they are seriously watching him.
It's reassured me slightly, but the worry will ALWAYS be there.
Sounds a lot of pony to me.
Hopefully they have their facts right, as if it is not true and I was that man , I would sue everyone who uttered the words.
Do you REALLY think that if the school head knew this man was on the sex offenders list, he would be allowed near the school, let alone loose in a class with a camera ?
Kevin
Kevin, thanks for your post ::), I'm not one for gossip, as I've hopefully made clear. The explanation above should hopefully clear up any misunderstanding you have of the situation.
-
Good you know the facts now, even if they are not pleasant. I would feel the same as you.
I'm still not convinced about the photo issue - how comes that we have to sign a permission slip each term, also for after school activities, if there is going to be a photo taken? Maybe the School Board/parent council can put some pressure on the school!
I suppose you will not see that much of the man in question. I do feel sorry for his children - how can they have a normal social life?? :&>
-
happy hippy, never thought you were a gossip, and I certainly dont have any misunderstandings about the situation. You have done the right thing. Gone to the man that knows, in this case the head. Well done. You have saved yourself a lot of time this way.
Bottom line is that this guy however weird has been deemed to be let out in society, and there is not a lot you can do about it. Personally I would have thought 20 years inside ,should have been matched with a clause upon freedom of not going anywhere near schools. What a vile creature. My only reservation is the 20 years inside, seems wrong somehow, too long, unless he was really a very bad man.
Proceed with caution is all I can say. If the school are on to it,and you are happy with the heads assurances, then its job done. There is certainly no need to worry children about him, which in turn will create more problems. Chances are you will probanly never see him again.
I would not worry to much about the camera, this is not an armchair weirdo, he gets more involved than that. I think the camera was just first day at school stuff with his kids, which is ok if its still allowed at this school.
Kevin
-
hello Karen,
my two penneth won't help at all really , but I just had to say something . I am so sick of the namby pamby way we have to tip toe round perverts in this world . They go in nick for years of twatting around with do gooders and then they come out and nearly ALL of them re offend . Well sorry to say I would deal with them like the other inmates in nick do ... kick the crap out of them !!!! I would tell the guy to leave ( yep ...get out of town ) and what I would do if he didn't ...if he didn't go, I would do it .....Mr baseball bat and me would break many bones and after he came out of hospital he would get told the same again ....if he didn't go ...Mr baseball bat again !!!! It is the only thing these arseholes understand ..severe pain !!! I know violence isn't an answer , but with the way perverts are treated these days, it is almost the only way to sort them out ....even in nick they are on rule 43 to SAVE them from the other cons...At least with my way , in time , they would be incapable of doing anything to anyone !!! This is one of those situations where the law does not work . I am sorry if this offends anyone , but there you go .... tuff !!!
In the past I have had stuff stolen from me and I went to the police ... nothing .... when I was 18 I even got packi bashed ...skinheads kicked the crap out of me thinking I was a Pakistani ...went to the police they just laughed ...( mind you even I thought it was funny , painfull but funny ::)) , so for most things now I sort things out myself ....one step towards anarchy yes , but nothing gets done otherwise...
I hope your situation gets sorted ok , I would hate to be in that situation ....I know my way doesn't help you , but I really had to just speak out ( it is something I suffer from ...an inability to keep my mouth shut !!!)
cheers
Russ
-
Hi Russ, I met so many of them (sex offenders) due to my work and they all had "their story" and expected sympathy,
many most rationalised what they had done but I was usually able to read between the lines, unfortunately I think even the police agree with you, but can't say anything, rough justice being a natural deterrent, even though I am a non violent person. Both me and my OH did some homeless work (he still dose) and I remember speaking to my OH on the phone upset over something and he was with a big tough nutter of a man, he asked, "whats wrong?" my OH explained and he said "I will sort it out" lucily enough he did not have the persons details otherwise he would as he had nothing to loose...theres some mad people out there!!!!!! ::)
-
yes .. you are right Sandy ...they all have their own story ....But they all have a mind of their own and like me they can choose to do something or not to...they choose to abuse kids or kill them or whatever ....your are right about the police too ... I had an instant in my own family , won't go into details , but when the police came round they asked as policemen did I do it ? I said no ...then they asked as men (off the record ) and I said yes....they said good ..it's the only thing these bastards understand, there is nothing we can do to them . The policeman even advised to use a wooden baseball bat and burn it afterwards....this i had already done anyway ...
cheers
Russ
-
yes .. you are right Sandy ...they all have their own story ....But they all have a mind of their own and like me they can choose to do something or not to...they choose to abuse kids or kill them or whatever ....your are right about the police too ... I had an instant in my own family , won't go into details , but when the police came round they asked as policemen did I do it ? I said no ...then they asked as men (off the record ) and I said yes....they said good ..it's the only thing these bastards understand, there is nothing we can do to them . The policeman even advised to use a wooden baseball bat and burn it afterwards....this i had already done anyway ...
cheers
Russ
Actions and behaviour like this make you no better than the crimal in my opinion. Actions like this make the world the mess it is today. Doganjo you are a very brave, strong and forgiving lady, I admire you and sympathise with your loss. :)
-
Thanks Russ, I agree with you on this one. ;)
On the one hand my blood boils every time I think about it, he's coming to the school every day (his wife works full time) and there's nothing we can do about it(well, legally anyway) .
At the same time however, I feel so sorry for his kids and the stigma that will be attached to the family, because of him.
It's a deadfull situation, one I never imagined I would be faced with in this wee rural village in the middle of the countryside where I grew up and went to school, but I'll have to deal with it and I will have to make sure my kids are well informed so that they can remain safe.
Kevin, sorry if I was a bit nippy-you definately hit a raw nerve :P I'm over it now ;)
Thanks to everyone for posting, it's been good to get a bit of reassurance, support and your views on the subject.