The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: brendan lyons on October 21, 2013, 01:03:56 pm
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Hi
On a 100 acre beef farm, is it possible to make good profits if you manage it well. Lets say you have 50-60 animals in total with any calves kept for heifers/bullocks and then sold at one and half years- two years. Lets say up to 70-90 acres is good pasture, how much profit would you be expected to make if any?
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With that size of operation, it may also be worth asking the question on The Farming Forum or British Farming Forum :thumbsup:
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A good friend of mine farms on a very similar scale. he started 5 years ago and soon discovered that he couldn't make it pay by simply producing beef at that scale- he had to add value. he now is breed specific (Dexters in his case) and not only breeds and raises but also markets the finished product. he has found that he has to get straight to the end user to keep his margins viable so does a huge amount of farmers markets and food fairs. For beef farmers it's a long time between cheques so he started raising a few chickens last year. he now produces 200 a month, from a fairly simple system and again sells them direct, which keeps a regular income. I'm not sure he would describe it as a good living, but its a living- then again maybe he's not the greatest farmer in the world, though he seems pretty good to me
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Hi
On a 100 acre beef farm, is it possible to make good profits if you manage it well. Lets say you have 50-60 animals in total with any calves kept for heifers/bullocks and then sold at one and half years- two years. Lets say up to 70-90 acres is good pasture, how much profit would you be expected to make if any?
Are you including the capital start up costs i.e. best part of £750,000 to a million pounds that a good 100 acres (with house) would cost to buy together with the cost of stock and equipment?
Would the farm also have SFP entitlements?
My gut reaction is say that unless the farm was inherited you'd be unlikely to make a decent living from it and would probably need supplementary income from contracting etc.
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Haha!
If your looking for a business, straight business you cannot work 100ac and make a profit. escpecially when you look at your capital investment.
you mention 60-70 cattle. to start that up. so you have 60-100k to start. you profit on the suckled calves or stores wont add up to more than bank interest. and you havent even touched the machinery and other bits.
on a 100ac where would your silage come from? how would you graze your weanlings, cows and cut on that sized area.
you will need sfp.
then you could look at the niche side of things, finish your own cattle and sell it all. loads of work and profitable? not really.
if you have the land for free, you can get a herd going for little or nothing, then you can live a lifestyle. you wont make money but get by.
if your interested i have 15 dexter cows for sale to get you started.
live the dream!
dom
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Hi
On a 100 acre beef farm, is it possible to make good profits if you manage it well. Lets say you have 50-60 animals in total with any calves kept for heifers/bullocks and then sold at one and half years- two years. Lets say up to 70-90 acres is good pasture, how much profit would you be expected to make if any?
Are you including the capital start up costs i.e. best part of £750,000 to a million pounds that a good 100 acres (with house) would cost to buy together with the cost of stock and equipment?
Would the farm also have SFP entitlements?
My gut reaction is say that unless the farm was inherited you'd be unlikely to make a decent living from it and would probably need supplementary income from contracting etc.
Yes the farm is inherited, single farm payment per year around £3000
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Haha!
If your looking for a business, straight business you cannot work 100ac and make a profit. escpecially when you look at your capital investment.
you mention 60-70 cattle. to start that up. so you have 60-100k to start. you profit on the suckled calves or stores wont add up to more than bank interest. and you havent even touched the machinery and other bits.
on a 100ac where would your silage come from? how would you graze your weanlings, cows and cut on that sized area.
you will need sfp.
then you could look at the niche side of things, finish your own cattle and sell it all. loads of work and profitable? not really.
if you have the land for free, you can get a herd going for little or nothing, then you can live a lifestyle. you wont make money but get by.
if your interested i have 15 dexter cows for sale to get you started.
live the dream!
dom
Ok, the farm in question in my fathers. Everything is there for me and my brother, considering this, is it possible to make profits. We are thinking of targeting a breed like angus.
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It's not how much money you make but how much you make minus how much you pay out. If you have the land, infrastructure, knowledge and willingness to work and invest in good genetics then .....
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£3000 sfp is not alot.
i think if your looking for a business my advice still stands you will struggle. if you want a lifestyle, one that might be a change for you then go for it.
thats what i did. changed my lifestyle bought a farm set up a butchery business gathered livestock sold meat. yes it worked but am i rich..... no but do i have a good life.... yes.
do your business plan and look if it adds up. suckler cows are a guaranteed loss unless you can add value and make it work another way.
dominic
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£3000 sfp is not alot.
i think if your looking for a business my advice still stands you will struggle. if you want a lifestyle, one that might be a change for you then go for it.
thats what i did. changed my lifestyle bought a farm set up a butchery business gathered livestock sold meat. yes it worked but am i rich..... no but do i have a good life.... yes.
do your business plan and look if it adds up. suckler cows are a guaranteed loss unless you can add value and make it work another way.
dominic
why are suckler cows a guaranteed loss?
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cost of keeping the cows outways the return on 1 suckled calf per year. unless your going to do something special.
if you could get some more sfp or you are lfass or can claim beef calf scheme but i dont think you are in scotland.
dominic
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Before I start, I don't have any land but would love to have the opportunity that you have.
Quote: 'We are thinking of targeting a breed like angus.'
To be honest, I don't think Angus are anything special.
When at college (some 5-9 years ago now) a lecturer of mine always said - 'small cow, small feedbill, small vet bill, small housing cost.'.
Look at something that would be hardy and different - a niche breed for market almost.
Speak to local butchers - do they support rare breed beef? Same with local restaurants.
What about sheep? Buying in lambs at the back end and fatten over the following 6-8 weeks on kale/turnips and hay.
At the recent Smallholder Show in Lanark, I asked the question 'What size of smallholding do you need to make a profit?' The answer: 10-15 acre.
Before I get shot - I realise that the 2 sectors are vastly different.
Think out of the box - turkeys for Christmas?
Make good quality hay and sell it? Fatten lambs on the hay aftermath.
I would also say, that you don't necessarily need a lot of machinery either depending on what you go for.
Again from college days - 'sometimes the profitable farms have the minimum inputs'
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My friend bred Aberdeen Angus, top quality beasts, the bulls sell for 10 grand Etc. He had 70 acres and made a good profit and had family to share machinery and labour with, but he said it wasn't enough to live on. He had no sfp.
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Have you not got any buildings that would be suitable for stables. its a good income and if you do it so they have to but the haylage and straw through you you can make a bit more.
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My friend bred Aberdeen Angus, top quality beasts, the bulls sell for 10 grand Etc. He had 70 acres and made a good profit and had family to share machinery and labour with, but he said it wasn't enough to live on. He had no sfp.
so top quality beasts selling for 10k and still not enough to live on!
dont be fooled by reading the headline prices of bull sales. you will need to spend serious on genetics to get those prices.
your obviously young and keen to give it a go, why not farm part time. go work for someone else and do your farm on the side until you can get going. or get going with catering at festivals etc. it requires a big input to start with but should, with the right product, pay you back.
dont be put off by my negative vibes, i thought at first you where the usual dreamer looking at getting into it. your obviously not and you have the foot in the door.
d
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Expensive youngstock come out of expensive parents. The serious farmer needs tractors, balers, trailers and such like. It all eats away at the profit.
Another friend of mine has just standard beef cattle, nothing special and sold in kg liveweight. He loses ten pound a head, even though he makes his own forage.
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I've never seen beef make any money on paper. Unpopular as it may be, sheep do.
You could have 400ish ewes on your 100 ac in summer, but you'd need to find tack/turnips etc for just over half of them in winter.
Alternatively, you could have 150-200, shut half the farm up in summer and make hay/silage to sell and run the whole lot over the farm in winter.
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Simple, put up an Endurance x-29 on a 0%down 40%equity deal.
Then have fun doing what ever you want! Dexter cows and an AA bull will give you a small hardy efficient cow with an AAx Su kler to sell on or fatten. Best of all worlds.
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Look at the EBLEX costings for sucklers/beef production---if you are in the top 5% of producers with economy of scale you may make a small profit
I am a new entrant to farming in my own right and the most important thing I can tell you is that if the plan doesn't work economically on paper it won't work in real life. So do your budgeting well ---------
2nd thing I can tell you is that the actual farming side of your business is not so important ---you need to get your marketing right
Good luck!
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Know what market your heading for,
Don't under budget.. Its always best to over budget!!
We have a 120acre farm with around 130-140 stores, all fattened off grass or silage.
With around 300 of various breeds of sheep.
We used to buy quality but as prices have gone through the roof atm we're buying anything we can see that will make us a profit.
A good friend of mine buys in bulling heifers, bulls them and sells them as cows with calves at foot.
There is a gamble in it etc but shes making a good profit on her farm and thats without any SFP.
Heifers are generally cheaper to buy in that steers.
Work with Eblex or any other companies offering help..
Also go around different markets and speak to different aged farmers its from them you'll learn the most etc.
I can give you contact details for a very well run farm here in Wales ( the person has won the farmers weekly beef farmer of the year)
If your interested message me and i'll send you the details over :)
Good luck with what ever you decided to do :)
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If you figure out how to make a profit from 100 acres write a book and sell it to all the people out there that cant make a profit :roflanim:
Seriously good luck you'll need it