The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Hillview Farm on September 14, 2013, 05:24:45 pm
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I started up sheep this time last year, I've just about broken even on producing my lambs this year without my start up costs of buying the ewes and equipment such as hurdles etc.
I'm looking to maximise my returns and just wondered if any of you had any tips?
My biggest out lay was feed, How much does bulk buying feed save you? And could anyone share how much feed they used per head over the lambing period.
Thanks all ;D
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With fat lambs only fetching £60 or so at auction you are going to struggle at the moment. I used to get that price when I was farming commercially in the 1970's
Personally I reckon that a small holder can only make money with sheep by filling a niche market, having a top class pedigree flock or perhaps killing their own lambs and distributing the finished meat as a premium product through their own shop/website.
At present i think commercial sheep farmers are struggling.
As for feed well it's impossible to say; depends how much grass you have through the winter but bulk buying will be cheaper but there can also be issues with more waste and storage etc.
Just my 2p
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Maximise your grass utilisation to reduce your feed costs. Use smaller paddocks and rotationally graze them.
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Last year I sold my lambs private (live) got about £65 a lamb this year I sent them all to slaughter ewe lamb as well. I sold for £75 a half and had 6 lambs £900 minus slaughter fee £20 each £120 for all 6 what it costs me a year In feed & up keep (shearing worming feed) I make a loss of about £100 but that doesn't account for all the meat I get from it I love having the sheep and to me if I break even I'm happy. With just sheep it's hard I have a few things hens & ducks and the make up the difference I loose by selling there eggs
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I'm really lucky and get top quality hay for free :excited: So that helps a great deal! Its been such a lovely feeling with it sat in the barn since It came off the field and I've got more than enough to last me. Last year I was abit quick off the mark to bring my girls in but this year I plan to keep them out longer, until the ground is sodden as we are on heavy clay.
I may consider lambing earlier to get into the early market as I missed the good prices this year by a week!
Azzdodd, Was that selling to friends and family or was the lamb advertised? I am happy I've broken even and now I've got everything I need it will keep my costs down anyway :) I also sell duck eggs :)
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If you can't do big numbers you have to find your niche. Showing and breeding high quality stock is perhaps best left to those with more experience. We breed Southdowns and make sure they're in tip top health and well handled for smallholders, particularly first-time sheep keepers. We always emphasise that we're always on the end of the phone or e:mail for advice or ideas and we offer ram hire for those who don't want a ram on the place all year round. We also breed them as grass-fed terminal sires for Mule flocks. Our Badger Face are bred pure for replacements one year and crossed with the SD's for a commercial type crossbred to be sold as stores at market the next. This way we try to spread the risk and hope that low prices in one area will be balanced by higher in another. It's always a balancing act and, yes, sometimes it does feel like being in a circus!
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maybe looking after the grass more ie fertilise etc may reduce the need for hard feed.
def buy in bulk- our feed bulk delivered by the ton (40 miles) is 40% cheaper than our farm store 5 miles away. even cheaper if you dont want plastic bags.
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this might seem like telling my grandmother how to suck eggs, but you need to be examining your margin. Is it worth buying nuts to keep more animals/ac when you could stock less and not have to buy hard feed? Examine all your inputs and outgoings - are they nescessary? My system minimises outlay (no shearing, little need for clik etc, worming only on FECs saves money, low density stocking means I don't buy feed, decent ebv rams mean my market lambs achieve killing weight in the shortest possible time etc).
I have to do the sums properly when they are all gone, but without my wage (because I forget to log my hours) - my cost of production for a market lamb is somewhere between £15-20.
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I've made a dramatic loss this year and am reviewing what we keep. At the moment it's rare breeds - soay, moorits, ronaldsays. The latter are the most expensive to keep as they need more specialist treatment. Soays suit us as they are self shearing and hardy when it comes to disease, the moorits do need sheared but are just beautiful.
Getting cheap or free things is brilliant, it's hard to break even and as for making a profit ::)
I think I need to get into breeding and getting rid of older stock sooner. But at the moment I'm just thinking of keeping cheaper to buy wethers to keep the grass down and meating them in the winter.
To be honest, our two mini shetland ponies keep the grass down much better than a flock of sheep.
My 2p's worth :D
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I sold to friends and work people. I could have sold 20 but I wasn't gonna buy any in an be stuck I case I never. The free hay is a really good thing or you. It's what costs me the most winter feed. You only get out what you put in.
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I sold to friends and work people. I could have sold 20 but I wasn't gonna buy any in an be stuck I case I never. The free hay is a really good thing or you. It's what costs me the most winter feed. You only get out what you put in.
Sorry for possibly a silly question, don't you have to be careful with selling privately? I.E Can you only sell to friends and family or am I thinking of something else?
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I've made a dramatic loss this year and am reviewing what we keep. At the moment it's rare breeds - soay, moorits, ronaldsays. The latter are the most expensive to keep as they need more specialist treatment.
in what way do ronaldsays need more expensive management?
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I sold to friends and work people. I could have sold 20 but I wasn't gonna buy any in an be stuck I case I never. The free hay is a really good thing or you. It's what costs me the most winter feed. You only get out what you put in.
Sorry for possibly a silly question, don't you have to be careful with selling privately? I.E Can you only sell to friends and family or am I thinking of something else?
It's easy as long as you're organised. We take orders for butchered half lambs, and the customers either pick them up from the butcher or we pick them up from the butcher and deliver them. This means we don't need to worry about Env Health certification, etc.
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As Dan says plus as long as your meat is butchered in a proper butchers you can sell it to anyone. If it's homekill only you can eat it.
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Ahh I see, so I can get the abattoir to butcher them! lovely job :)
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why do you spend so much on hard feed?
easiest way to improve your margin is to cut costs and add value. be that by getting lambs to slaughter weight faster with improved genetics or changing the way you market your lambs
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I pick mine up and drop off to everyone they all seemed happy and said they want more next year returning customers are good for business as they say good things too.....and the whole horse meat scandals people want to know we're its from. In my box they got 1 leg 1 shoulder breast chops I also had a batch off 100 minty lamb burgers made and 10 off them in each box (they were very popular)
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I have Commercial breeds, I feed my ewes pre and post lambing. Got my lambs off to market by 4 months (they didn't get hard feed but the ewes had much more milk from the extra feed)
Azzdodd, what I good Idea! Thank you! I may have to call upon my friends and family and see who would be interested.
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why do you spend so much on hard feed?
easiest way to improve your margin is to cut costs and add value. be that by getting lambs to slaughter weight faster with improved genetics or changing the way you market your lambs
Exactly - often less sheep = more profit.
I have very commercial sheep and aside from the odd bucket and bale of hay if there is no grass at all they get no hard feed.
I make money out of my sheep - not 'just about break even', but a decent enough margin.
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and how many sheep do you have Steve? I don't have masses of grazing at the moment (working progress)
I think for my first year to break even is good! I'm proud of myself! I can only move forwards and up!
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why do you spend so much on hard feed?
easiest way to improve your margin is to cut costs and add value. be that by getting lambs to slaughter weight faster with improved genetics or changing the way you market your lambs
Exactly - often less sheep = more profit.
I have very commercial sheep and aside from the odd bucket and bale of hay if there is no grass at all they get no hard feed.
I make money out of my sheep - not 'just about break even', but a decent enough margin.
I'm glad to read that as I'm planning to stock lightly and use little feed. :)
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and how many sheep do you have Steve? I don't have masses of grazing at the moment (working progress)
I think for my first year to break even is good! I'm proud of myself! I can only move forwards and up!
I started with 15 Wilts Horns as a hobby......the next autumn I bought 40 Lleyns, the following spring I bought 50 in-lamb woolshedders to lamb at the same time.....this year I had about 270 to lamb, just got some more grazing, will be lambing about 325-50 next year....
You can see how quickly it spirals..... ;D
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Hi there :wave:
I realised that feeding was one of the most expensive things for sheep, so I got rid of the problem, by gradually selling off anything that has to have any hard feed.
I just sold my last two Suffolk mule ewe lambs a few weeks ago and now I am left with only sheep that do not need any feeding of cake, They are mostly shetlands or Shetland crosses but I have a few random sheep (Texel mule, Wilts horn cross ryeland) that were kept purely because they need no maintenance even though their breeds usually need more feeding etc.
My lambs have been on the worst grazing possible really this year :( its basicly been grazing straw but they have still managed to grow well without ever havig any extra feed or ewes having any feed.
Breeding pedigree shetlands for replacments next year aswel as cross breeding, none will be fed and all lambed outdoors (last year my field flooded so they had to be moved into a stable and workshop!)
Make the most out of your grazing, don't keep ewe lambs on unless they have been bred to maximise efficiency and figure out wether its best to under stock on land rather than over stock and I think you will be well on your way to making the most from your sheep!
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and how many sheep do you have Steve? I don't have masses of grazing at the moment (working progress)
I think for my first year to break even is good! I'm proud of myself! I can only move forwards and up!
I started with 15 Wilts Horns as a hobby......the next autumn I bought 40 Lleyns, the following spring I bought 50 in-lamb woolshedders to lamb at the same time.....this year I had about 270 to lamb, just got some more grazing, will be lambing about 325-50 next year....
You can see how quickly it spirals..... ;D
Yes I can but I think when you have those sorts of numbers it makes things cheaper. For example I don't have enough sheep to jab when heptavacing if I was doing 25 doses it would cost me £0.80 per head where as at the moment It costs me £2.50 per head as I cant make the most of it!
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and how many sheep do you have Steve? I don't have masses of grazing at the moment (working progress)
I think for my first year to break even is good! I'm proud of myself! I can only move forwards and up!
I started with 15 Wilts Horns as a hobby......the next autumn I bought 40 Lleyns, the following spring I bought 50 in-lamb woolshedders to lamb at the same time.....this year I had about 270 to lamb, just got some more grazing, will be lambing about 325-50 next year....
You can see how quickly it spirals..... ;D
Yes I can but I think when you have those sorts of numbers it makes things cheaper. For example I don't have enough sheep to jab when heptavacing if I was doing 25 doses it would cost me £0.80 per head where as at the moment It costs me £2.50 per head as I cant make the most of it!
on a similar note - if you are £10 down per head each year on a flock of 10, its not the end of the world. but £10 down each head on a flock of 400 - its a serious problem.
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and how many sheep do you have Steve? I don't have masses of grazing at the moment (working progress)
I think for my first year to break even is good! I'm proud of myself! I can only move forwards and up!
I started with 15 Wilts Horns as a hobby......the next autumn I bought 40 Lleyns, the following spring I bought 50 in-lamb woolshedders to lamb at the same time.....this year I had about 270 to lamb, just got some more grazing, will be lambing about 325-50 next year....
You can see how quickly it spirals..... ;D
Yes I can but I think when you have those sorts of numbers it makes things cheaper. For example I don't have enough sheep to jab when heptavacing if I was doing 25 doses it would cost me £0.80 per head where as at the moment It costs me £2.50 per head as I cant make the most of it!
how many sheep do you keep?
yes having more sheep can make some thing cheaper per sheep, but if you think your feed bill is too high and that it will reduce if you have more sheep then you are wrong.
you need better sheep
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you need better sheep
Now theres a debate that could run and run....... ;D
You also need a sound culling policy and a commercial attitude. Oh, and possibly not be lured by 'market-topping' willy-waving.
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and how many sheep do you have Steve? I don't have masses of grazing at the moment (working progress)
I think for my first year to break even is good! I'm proud of myself! I can only move forwards and up!
I started with 15 Wilts Horns as a hobby......the next autumn I bought 40 Lleyns, the following spring I bought 50 in-lamb woolshedders to lamb at the same time.....this year I had about 270 to lamb, just got some more grazing, will be lambing about 325-50 next year....
You can see how quickly it spirals..... ;D
Yes I can but I think when you have those sorts of numbers it makes things cheaper. For example I don't have enough sheep to jab when heptavacing if I was doing 25 doses it would cost me £0.80 per head where as at the moment It costs me £2.50 per head as I cant make the most of it!
how many sheep do you keep?
yes having more sheep can make some thing cheaper per sheep, but if you think your feed bill is too high and that it will reduce if you have more sheep then you are wrong.
you need better sheep
firstly i'm not saying that my feed bill is too high i'm saying its the highest thing I pay for. I dont pay rent, get hay for free so the most I pay is for feed and I buy the odd bag here and there. I'm sorry I didn't explain very well. I'm not sayinf having more sheep is cheaper either. And lastly I dont need better ewes as I bought the best my budget could get me and then some. Ok so they aren't pedigree but I went to the best commerial sheep farmer in my area and got his best. There is nothing wrong with my sheep. I understand this is oppinions but I was just looking for idea's for example selling them dead, not someone seeming to be having ago at me. There is no right or wrong answers
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Indeed, there are no right or wrong answers and everyone has to use a system that suits them best and what they are happy with. Interestingly enough, here's the comment from the market report at Cirencester market 5th September from the sheep auctioneer - "Meat is the key to selling lambs at present and is not achievable with grass alone. The difference between the meated lambs and leaner sorts it will pay to feed them."
325 sheep is a lot different from a flock of 10. I only have 11 breeding ewes and they have the best that I can afford of everything. I would never consider feeding them crap hay and I also feed them hard feed up to lambing and also afterwards for a couple of months. I have sold my ewe and ram lambs for £100 each this year - all have gone to breeding or pet homes, so a different sort of market. I am happy with this price and as long as I break even or make a small profit that's all I require. Keeping 11 breeding ewes is a hobby not a business as it would be if I had 320-350 sheep, I do not have a commercial attitude to the whole thing and care more about the sheep and looking after them than the profit I might make.
Hillview Farm - you have done very well in your first year to break even and sounds as if you are doing everything you can to not only to ensure you don't make a loss, but that you also feed your sheep in a manner in which you are happy doing - :thumbsup:
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firstly i'm not saying that my feed bill is too high i'm saying its the highest thing I pay for. I dont pay rent, get hay for free so the most I pay is for feed and I buy the odd bag here and there. I'm sorry I didn't explain very well. I'm not sayinf having more sheep is cheaper either. And lastly I dont need better ewes as I bought the best my budget could get me and then some. Ok so they aren't pedigree but I went to the best commerial sheep farmer in my area and got his best. There is nothing wrong with my sheep. I understand this is oppinions but I was just looking for idea's for example selling them dead, not someone seeming to be having ago at me. There is no right or wrong answers
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i think people are just keen to talk economics on sheep so its an interesting thread, i havent seen a thread on this subject before and im not a sheep expert so i find it fascinating. dont take it personally. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I get hay straw etc for free being on OH's farm :) ours are slightly different as we rear orphans and have no ewes but we still make a healthy profit (if you don't count my time... but living on the farm it hardly takes 10 mins to change the milk feeder twice a day). We send ours direct to slaughter and any surplus meat is delivered to family and friends once picked up from the butcher.
At this time of year fat commercial lamb market is saturated, so I would also think about lambing early so you can finish lambs slightly earlier in the year?
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Indeed, there are no right or wrong answers and everyone has to use a system that suits them best and what they are happy with. Interestingly enough, here's the comment from the market report at Cirencester market 5th September from the sheep auctioneer - "Meat is the key to selling lambs at present and is not achievable with grass alone. The difference between the meated lambs and leaner sorts it will pay to feed them."
a) He's talking out of his behind, there are ram breeders all over the place prodcuing for grass finishers.
b) You have to weigh up if the £/kilo increase you will be getting is worth the cost of putting the feed into the sheep.
I find it generally isn't - this is what I mean about thinking about your margin and not looking for the highest end price. I think the last lot of my terminal x lambs made not far off the same pen that topped the market, and yet I didn't spend a penny on cake.
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At this time of year fat commercial lamb market is saturated, so I would also think about lambing early so you can finish lambs slightly earlier in the year?
And, again - margin. You will need to feed/house ewes if you are lambing Dec/Jan to hit higher prices in spring, which aint always as high as the early lambers hope. It (like everything in business) is a gamble, they are talking a punt on the spring £/kg high will pay for all that extra feed/sheds etc and add a bit more into their margins. I have been told by an early lamber (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it cost him about £60 (last year, so you'd hope it would be less in a 'normal' year) to produce a spring lamb for killing - so, to achieve the same margin as me, he'd have to be getting about £120-130 per lamb.
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I have found lambing earlier costs a lot more both in time and money. The extra bedding and feed for early lambing (as you will more likely than not have to lamb indoors for it to be successful due to the weather etc) really needs a lot of consideration and good planning if considering to go down this route. Lambing at a time of year when you can either lamb outdoors or in and then have ewes/lambs out on some good new grass is the best way to maximise profits. Also, the time you spend mucking out and feeding/watering your sheep in housed ewes/lambs with early lambing can not be underestimated.
Choosing a breed that matures quickly is also a key factor - something like a Hampshire Down can reach market weight at circa 3 months on grass if conditions are right. At this rate, early lambing is not particularly necessary as April born lambs will be ready to go at the same time as the Jan/Feb born ones.
There are many factors that dictate lamb prices, not just a saturation of the market. Religious festivals, Ramadan, school holidays etc, etc all play a part. The market changes on a weekly basis and from market to market. If you only have a few lambs best to sell privately than through a market as on top of everything else you will have commission to pay and also the cost of travelling to your local market, of which there are not that many about nowadays and so can be a bit of a trek.
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Indeed, there are no right or wrong answers and everyone has to use a system that suits them best and what they are happy with. Interestingly enough, here's the comment from the market report at Cirencester market 5th September from the sheep auctioneer - "Meat is the key to selling lambs at present and is not achievable with grass alone. The difference between the meated lambs and leaner sorts it will pay to feed them."
325 sheep is a lot different from a flock of 10. I only have 11 breeding ewes and they have the best that I can afford of everything. I would never consider feeding them crap hay and I also feed them hard feed up to lambing and also afterwards for a couple of months. I have sold my ewe and ram lambs for £100 each this year - all have gone to breeding or pet homes, so a different sort of market. I am happy with this price and as long as I break even or make a small profit that's all I require. Keeping 11 breeding ewes is a hobby not a business as it would be if I had 320-350 sheep, I do not have a commercial attitude to the whole thing and care more about the sheep and looking after them than the profit I might make.
Hillview Farm - you have done very well in your first year to break even and sounds as if you are doing everything you can to not only to ensure you don't make a loss, but that you also feed your sheep in a manner in which you are happy doing - :thumbsup:
Thank you ZaktheLad, That's the nicest thing you could have said to me. I'm in the exact same boat as you and when I have 300 sheep I may change my ways but for now i'm happy ;D
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firstly i'm not saying that my feed bill is too high i'm saying its the highest thing I pay for. I dont pay rent, get hay for free so the most I pay is for feed and I buy the odd bag here and there. I'm sorry I didn't explain very well. I'm not sayinf having more sheep is cheaper either. And lastly I dont need better ewes as I bought the best my budget could get me and then some. Ok so they aren't pedigree but I went to the best commerial sheep farmer in my area and got his best. There is nothing wrong with my sheep. I understand this is oppinions but I was just looking for idea's for example selling them dead, not someone seeming to be having ago at me. There is no right or wrong answers
Sorry, not knocking you. Just my opinion.
you can always have better sheep, being pedigree makes no difference to how good the sheep is.
My best ewe cost me 70 quid :thumbsup:
As I said, if you wish to improve you margin then either improve your flock with genetics or change the way you market your lambs
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Indeed, there are no right or wrong answers and everyone has to use a system that suits them best and what they are happy with. Interestingly enough, here's the comment from the market report at Cirencester market 5th September from the sheep auctioneer - "Meat is the key to selling lambs at present and is not achievable with grass alone. The difference between the meated lambs and leaner sorts it will pay to feed them."
a) He's talking out of his behind, there are ram breeders all over the place prodcuing for grass finishers.
b) You have to weigh up if the £/kilo increase you will be getting is worth the cost of putting the feed into the sheep.
I find it generally isn't - this is what I mean about thinking about your margin and not looking for the highest end price. I think the last lot of my terminal x lambs made not far off the same pen that topped the market, and yet I didn't spend a penny on cake.
auctioneers get paid on how much the pen sells for not on the margin you make and to a point the heavier fed lambs will make more money because thats how the live ring works.
don't agree with it at all but thats the way it is.
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For those of you who are looking for ewes that require very little input and produce big decent lambs when crossed with a terminal sires then plenty of females available at
http://www.hebrideansheep.org.uk/Downloads/Sale%20catalogs%202013/Stirling%20Sale%20Catalogue%202013.pdf (http://www.hebrideansheep.org.uk/Downloads/Sale%20catalogs%202013/Stirling%20Sale%20Catalogue%202013.pdf)
;D
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Indeed, there are no right or wrong answers and everyone has to use a system that suits them best and what they are happy with. Interestingly enough, here's the comment from the market report at Cirencester market 5th September from the sheep auctioneer - "Meat is the key to selling lambs at present and is not achievable with grass alone. The difference between the meated lambs and leaner sorts it will pay to feed them."
a) He's talking out of his behind, there are ram breeders all over the place prodcuing for grass finishers.
b) You have to weigh up if the £/kilo increase you will be getting is worth the cost of putting the feed into the sheep.
I find it generally isn't - this is what I mean about thinking about your margin and not looking for the highest end price. I think the last lot of my terminal x lambs made not far off the same pen that topped the market, and yet I didn't spend a penny on cake.
auctioneers get paid on how much the pen sells for not on the margin you make and to a point the heavier fed lambs will make more money because thats how the live ring works.
don't agree with it at all but thats the way it is.
Exactly - it makes more money for the mart, but not for me.
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The feed conversion ratio diminishes as the lambs get older, i.e. the amount of weight they will put on in relation to the amount of hard feed that they eat. It's 2:1 at 2 months, 3:1 at 3 months, 4:1 at 4 etc etc. So it would be more effective to creep feed lambs rather than feed to finish them (if you need to feed them at all). I can't understand how it would ever pay to "finish" lambs on hard feed :) .
If you aren't targeting your lambs for a particular time of year it would be wise to ensure your lambing period is such that the best grass growth is when the lambs are starting to eat grass in quantity.
In answer to your original question.... :) ... I think I feed about 20kg hard feed per ewe at (March) lambing, although I also lamb my ewe lambs who need more food for longer, and I am lambing at 200% for my ewes and about 150% for my ewe lambs. But I think I can reduce that amount of food if I better manage my grass. (and hay on top of that all winter as the weather dictates)
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Thanks for all the replies to this. Hardly any of my friends know anything about sheep and that is why this forum is so helpful to a novice like me to hear lots of opinions.
Each year I learn a bit more about how to bring on my lambs and balance all their needs - numbers/grass/hay/hard feed. Then lambing/butchery :-\ /prices/skins and marketing ::) . So much to learn and so little time left ;D ;D ( I should have started this 30 years ago) :roflanim:
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I have been following this one with interest. I think SteveH talks a lot of sense. If you are in it for the money it isnt about top price it is about top margin and that makes a whole heap of difference. Personally I am in it for the quality of food that I can put on the table. I have started to go done a rote of grass fed only and although some of my lambs are not the biggest, everyone who has one wants more as they are so impressed with the quality of the meat. I currently have Charalais ewes that I cross with Wilts Horn Ram. Last year I bought some Wilts Horn Lambs and at the moment dont have access to the usually Ram I use.
I am thinking to keep the Wilts Horn pure and not cross. What would you do?
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I've been reading this thread with interest.
I think most of you thinking about trying the grass-only route are down south, so as long as you have good ground and the right type of sheep and the right attitude, I can't see why that wouldn't work for you.
I did just want to record, for the sake of others reading this thread now or in the future, that grass only won't always work depending on ground, climate and breeding. So if you're a way up North (like me) and/or have rough ground (like me) and/or have a type of sheep that is unlikely to fatten in one season on grass, then you'll need to either run them on through winter and/or cake them.
And the other ingredient in SteveHants' model, don't forget, is ruthless culling for animals that don't suit the system. For sheepkeepers who are likely to find it difficult to send young ewes away for no other reason than that she has needed treatment for her feet, or that she struggled to produce enough milk for her twin lambs, then Steve's system is probably not the one for you.
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Gulli, I'm sorry I jumped at you I just get very defensive about my sheep.
I think there have been some very good points made on this Subject. I think Steve has a very good business head and I actually look up to Steve! But we must always remember different systems for different people and places.
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Another factor that you need to consider when thinking of a grass only system with ewes/lambs is how many lambs you are expecting a ewe to rear on that grass only system. It is slightly unfair to expect a ewe to feed herself and triplet lambs on grass only and provide a high quality milk to support those three lambs (if your intention is to keep all the lambs on the ewe and not foster off or bottle feed/sell on as orphans).
I live in the South of the country and still cake my ewes/lambs when weather conditions dictate. The grass has very little/no nutritional value in it from late October onwards, regardless of what part of the country you live in and if the grass regrowth in Spring 2014 is a slow/nonexistent as it was this year, that's another factor to think about when considering a grass only system.
Another minor point worth considering is that if you do feed some hard feed to your flockthis will ensure that they (for the best part) become easy to manage/less wary of humans than those not fed/bucket trained. Personally, I like to be able to catch my sheep easily and don't want them frightened to death to come near me. This is the same with both ram and ewes and although I don't pet my ram, he does come to the bucket, which means I can look at him at close range to check for any irregularities etc. For someone keeping just a few sheep it makes life so much easier if your sheep will come to you rather than having to chase them around a field or not be able to get within 100metres of them. Someone farming 300 odd sheep probably wouldn't give two hoots if their sheep were scared to death of them as most would have a dog or other means to just round them all up en-mass. You don't need to feed much cake at all just to keep a small number of sheep biddable but it is worth it if you don't want to spend forever trying to capture a particular sheep or want to keep a close check on them. ;)
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targeted feeding depending on your system can be beneficial if you lamb indoors then its generally the simplest way to get minerals into them etc. But I still stand by the fact that you are better off not feeding them, and improving your flock genetics to allow you to finish off grass alone.
Without meaning to upset anyone I would suggest that if you think your ground is too tough then your sheep are too weak, Take a look at the kiwis.
I agree that it does make them easy to handle and move though. Although if you spend enough time with them then they become fairly tame anyway
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I don't feed my sheep but they are extremely tame, they will run up and have cuddles and one or two will try and sit on my lap!
I agree yes that grass is definatly not good all year around, however the breed of sheep I chose was one that can survive on the grass when it is non existent, thus doing really well when the grass is ok.
Also my ewes do produce twins although I do not flush them before hand as I don't mind if they produce singles or twins.
I am moving my ewes to new grazing up in Stroud hopefully this coming weekend, at the moment they are in a little paddock with no grass and a bit of hay so they should be very happy after the move :)
I suppose to make the most out of your ewes the thing that needs to be cut is the thing that costs the most, but if you are happy with feeding them the amount you are, then maybe try and do something with the wool? although not sure how Suffolk wool can be used..
Or maybe lamb skin rugs?
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I like my system. Shetlands, no hard feed, just hay and a mineral block, or if it's especially deep snow for weeks when in lamb, a bucket lick.
Inexpensive to buy and keep.
Ok they aren't worth much to sell. And a vet visit means an automatic loss on that animal even if it's cured. However, if it doesn't make it, the money written off might be £30 not £100.
No birth interventions, ever. No losses post birth. Only one ever having to be helped as a bit dopey (tuned twice and then fine). No abandonments ever. 150% lambing year in and out.
The value doesn't matter so much when they are mainly raised for us and friends and family. (tho having to sell some this year as they all keep producing ewe lambs which I prefer not to eat if it can be avoided). And the most amazing lamb and ESP hoggett.
Have too many ATM (45 altho that does include 6 Herdwicks and their 3 Herdwick x Ryeland lambs (they're funny looking bruisers :-)) so will be reducing soon, but I will def retain the core herd!
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This is same as my system :)
Although my lambing % is more 160, and I cross breed with a terminal sire, so lambs finish quicker and are big and chunky
Shetlands are brilliant If understood and I will never go back to a different breed for a maternal ewe :)
On the plus side they have cleared my paddocks of nettles, thistles, docks and brambles! they will go for the weeds before the grass!
I like my system. Shetlands, no hard feed, just hay and a mineral block, or if it's especially deep snow for weeks when in lamb, a bucket lick.
Inexpensive to buy and keep.
Ok they aren't worth much to sell. And a vet visit means an automatic loss on that animal even if it's cured. However, if it doesn't make it, the money written off might be £30 not £100.
No birth interventions, ever. No losses post birth. Only one ever having to be helped as a bit dopey (tuned twice and then fine). No abandonments ever. 150% lambing year in and out.
The value doesn't matter so much when they are mainly raised for us and friends and family. (tho having to sell some this year as they all keep producing ewe lambs which I prefer not to eat if it can be avoided). And the most amazing lamb and ESP hoggett.
Have too many ATM (45 altho that does include 6 Herdwicks and their 3 Herdwick x Ryeland lambs (they're funny looking bruisers :-)) so will be reducing soon, but I will def retain the core herd!