The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Buildings & planning => Topic started by: SirDoolb on September 03, 2013, 08:55:57 am
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I'm thinking of buying some land. There is a pole barn already though it's going to fall down soon. The structural posts are wood and rotten at ground level. It's no longer upright.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/8556_624409647589663_1527954893_n.jpg)
Hoping that works
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/8556_624409647589663_1527954893_n.jpg (https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/8556_624409647589663_1527954893_n.jpg)
Anyway, any one have any experience of repair? Should I just salvedge all the timber that's still good. (most of it apart from the uprights) and start again?
that latter task maybe a bit beyond me as I have only my bare hands and hopefully an atv with winch, towbar. (and friends?)
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Is it listed? It certainly looks as though it's listing! ;D
Personally I'd start again from scratch, that way you can have exactly what you want. Probably also with a kit barn in metal, rather than trying to salvage the old materials.
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Looks like it needs stronger wooden components all round - thicker uprights (telephone poles) and bigger cross-section members. You need to be careful how you deal with the base of the uprights too - if they just go straight into the ground they will, as you've seen, rot through.
My husband has built an open fronted implement shed totally by hand ie no power tools. He is currently putting up a large pole barn, although this time he has made the concession of using a battery powered drill. It is actually oversturdy to my mind as well as too large, but it shows it can be done, and by one somewhat decrepit person working on his own. He had no special skills for building but learnt as he went along.
So for your shed, it needs to come right down (lots of good firewood there) and a new one, whether wooden construction or metal kit, put up in its place.
You will though have plenty of other things to do when you buy your new land.
For help, if you have room in the house or have a caravan available, you could get HelpXers in - look them up, it can work well.
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There is nothing wrong with over engineering :)
Def 'listing' - lol - wouldnt take the bales out without a hard hat.
Its going to need to come down - do the 'renovation' quick - its not a rebuild!
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If the planners are watching the plot after neighbour hastle then make sure you reovate walls before you remove the top structure
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There is no law to stop you fixing something up - but knocking it down and starting again is a dif story.
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If its listed - forget it, they would rather see it awethentic than aid to restore it.
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It's actually very solid and not about to fall down. The timber, apart from the uprights is all good and the felt lining under the roof is intact. There's only the damage that that picture shows, a few of the roofing plank have cracked, the rest is intact. It's not old, may even have been put up on the pee as you cant push or rock it anywhere.
I don't really need a pole barn but as it's there I thought make it last a bit longer. It might serve some future use. I'm presuming that the neighbours will be the current owners and they are just selling off some of their assets as a new right of way is being created for access.
It would be very difficult to get anything other than a small 4WD or tractor to the land, certainly not any kind of bulk carrying vehicle. I have neither 4WD or tractor. (There's no road access and I cycle along a bridle way to get there otherwise it's across fields).
I doubt that it is concreted in as the soil is heavy clay and expands and contracts massively depending on season. I'm presuming it just lilted due to ground movement. Once the ground is sodden it maybe less solid. :raining: The ground is like concrete at the moment.
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I reckon the easiest would be to gently lift up the roof timbers (you may need to remove the roof cladding first) a few inches with a jack or even tele handler, temporarily holding them in place with wooden props or Acrow props. Repair, renew or refix the columns (depending on condition then let the roof timbers back onto the new columns and repair/refix timbers as you go.
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Sounds a plan.
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I'd tackle it as Henchard suggests. Pull it as square as possible then Acrow prop each leg in turn and repair.
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If you're going to do all that and try and keep safe ::) you might as well take the flipping lot down, that's faaaar too much carry on. You need the poles set in concrete with damp proofing thick plastic around the bases or set in metal shoes set in the ground / concrete.
Barns are good to have though, useful, and if you can get it down to the basic structural elements then it may be worth correcting, think I'd put something quicker to cover the roof though, wrinkley tin or the like, something inexpensive.
Definately a renew and not a refurb, salvage the materials as you go so when you feel the notion coming on you can to do some man stuff there'll be no stopping you :D
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Just my experience concreting posts in makes them sweat funny how city fencing lasts <10 years when stock fencing lasts 30 + one uses concrete one doesn't personally I would use 2 acrows jack up slightly each side of upright take out replace move on to the next SIMPLES !
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:wave:
I just thought I'd update on the pole barn rebuild.
hopefully the picture will upload.
so what are my options now? :roflanim:
land still not mine btw. :knit:
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Almost an improvement :thinking: :roflanim:
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Well the options are repair or demolish/rebuild - if the former then you need to know what you are doing and plan each stage of the repairs carefully first; if the latter route you might encounter a need for a planning approval and need to explore that with the local authority.
Looking at the initial photo it looks as though the structure was simply posts and beams forming open fronted bays with minimal diagonal bracing between posts (bit like a toast rack) with whatever boarding/cladding is fitted to it - is that correct? If so it has limited structural stability and any wind loading on the end of the structure will tend to push it over because it's relying solely on the feet of the posts being sound and securely bedded in the ground for lateral stiffness (plus any bonus stiffness from fixed boarding) - the absence of diagonal structural braces resulting in the visible lean left to right in the pic when it fails.
Old telegraph poles have been a valuable resource for replacing poles in barns primarily because their timber preservative treatment is among the best available - worth hunting on the net for suppliers. The only problem I can see for you in that is the access/transport limitations you mentioned earlier.
The decision to repair or not hinges on just how much of the structural members are defective or salvageable and you need to assess that fully by inspection. First priority would be to make the structure safe to work on by propping/shoring up, stripping back to bare structural frame and then repairing/replacing members as needed working in sequence bay by bay. If you take it logically and carefully it's workable - I wouldn't write it off out of hand.