The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Jon Brunyee on August 30, 2013, 12:00:49 pm
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just wondering why they cant eat it, we put our store lambs in with our cattle and just remembered to take the lick out!
Thank you
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"Sheep are unique in that they accumulate copper in the liver more readily than other farm animals. As a result, they are very susceptible to Cu toxicity (poisoning). Mature ewes of British breed origin appear to be the most vulnerable and there is evidence to suggest that Finn Sheep and Texels also have a tendency to accumulate more Cu in the liver than other breeds."
From: http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/coppertox.html (http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/coppertox.html)
HTH,
Dan
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This article also mentions the possibility of high copper levels in pasture that had pig manure.
Does anyone here has experienced problems with grazing sheep on land that has housed pigs?
I have a field with fast growing areas of bracken that I am thinking of controlling with pigs - would that mean I should not let sheep on that land after it has been restored? (this would defy the purpose...) :thinking:
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I have a field with fast growing areas of bracken that I am thinking of controlling with pigs - would that mean I should not let sheep on that land after it has been restored? (this would defy the purpose...) :thinking:
If I were you I would get the resulting forage (grass) analysed. That will tell you were you stand. You might find that you are high in Molybdenum and Sulphur and Iron and such like which all have an impact on the availability of the copper.
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Good point, thanks Foobar. Will keep that in mind when I get to that point...
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We have an ex pig farm where the farmyard manure and water from the slurry lagoon were regularly spread on the fields. The owner kept sheep with no problems and we have too. Our soil, though, is high in iron and molybdenum, which inhibits the uptake of copper from the forage. Don't forget that primitive breeds that have evolved to eat seaweed will be extremely susceptible to copper toxicity.
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Our area is very deficient in copper, cobalt and selenium; we have to give our sheep extra minerals to compensate, either in feed or as a drench. Plus we give them licks specifically for sheep.
However, the fact that we have cattle and therefore higher-copper feed and licks around is one of the reasons I won't have North Ronaldsays - they are highly susceptible to copper poisoning, we learned from a TASer last year. :'(
Currently a breakaway group of my little fleece sheep, being 2 Castlemilk Moorits, 2 Manx Loaghtans and 5 Shetland Xes, are getting in with the pigs during the day. So I do hope there won't be a problem... I've two full grown pigs and now 7 little sheep ::) on around an acre.
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Apparently a lot of peeps near us Bolus their sheep with copper due to low levels and the iron high level making the copper unavailable or something.
I can believe it as have had to supplement the pony to correct deficiencies showing up in hoof, and a low iron higher copper supplement has has a very swift and positive effect.
So altho overdose of copper is bad, so is too little, it's finding out which is the case.
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I can believe it as have had to supplement the pony to correct deficiencies showing up in hoof, and a low iron higher copper supplement has has a very swift and positive effect.
So altho overdose of copper is bad, so is too little, it's finding out which is the case.
Hi
what hoof problems caused by copper deficiency? my goats seem to have foot problems, ie weak or walls, we have low copper here - could this be related? they do have red rockies but only one seems to bother with it.
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mmm interesting, been googling, I'll put the rockies in front of the girls tomorrow.
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In my pony it was separation of the hoof wall, so it was two different shades, white thin line on outer then slightly creamy inner line with a darker line visible in between.
After a month on the forageplus hoof supplement the new growth is solid hoof wall, all bright white and solid with no separation, looks so much better!!
So maybe it would help with goats :-)))
I didn't tell my hoof trimmer who recommended it that I was following her advice and had fed the supp, the next time she came she exclaimed over the marvellous progress on the hooves, it was only after that I told her that I had gone ahead and I'd already noticed the change myself.
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Anyone can recommend a soil testing service?
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In my pony it was separation of the hoof wall, so it was two different shades, white thin line on outer then slightly creamy inner line with a darker line visible in between.
After a month on the forageplus hoof supplement the new growth is solid hoof wall, all bright white and solid with no separation, looks so much better!!
So maybe it would help with goats :-)))
As they are milkers I'd have to look into it, they are on a supplement but I'll check copper content today, didn't realise it affected hooves.
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I've just switched my milking Saanen onto a cattle feed instead of the goat/sheep feed she was on before.
I noticed in spring, shortly after we got her, she moulted by shedding a load of hair, looking almost bald before the new growth came through, and put it down to stress of moving, and the previous owner was suspicious she may have been having a false pregnancy.
She moulted a whole heap of hair again the other week, and so I had a wee think, and thought that it may well fit with copper deficiency.
Having switched onto beef nuts, with copper in them, the new hair seems to have grown in much quicker than it did previously, so I think this may well be a copper deficiency.
This bodes well for my sheep, because if they accidentally eat a bit of the cattle feed etc, the low copper in the area should mean they won't get copper poisoning!
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i'm too far away from you but i work as a forage specialsit- a major part of the job involves taking soil samples and advising farmers on the results. i work for mole valley farmers and we cover much of wales and could give you details of guy in your area if you were interested.. let me know and i'll pm you.
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this is an interesting thread - I too am planning on using pigs for ground clearing. I wonder how long the copper levels stay high - maybe graze something else first.
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We had several ewes deliver sway backed lambs many years ago, a condition caused by copper deficiency. I dosed them with copper bolus's (sp?) and it hasn't happened since. The bolus contains needles which lodge themselves in the gut and slow release the correct amount of copper.
Sheep do need a trace amount of copper but not in the amounts present in other animal feeds. We had a hen house in the field at one time and used to keep the food inside it so the sheep couldn't steal it.
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Not all breeds need the boluses or other copper supplement, Julie - some are ultra-sensitive to copper and can be poisoned by even small amounts.
We have a commercial flock with broadly Texel X, Charollais X and North of England mules and their Texel X offspring in it. We find the mules and the 1st generation Texel X daughters do need a supplement with copper in it every year, while the more Texel types do not need it every year. It's impossible to say if we ever get copper toxicity in the Texels as the problem builds up over time; it's not as though they'd drop dead within a week of being given the supplement. So we only give them the mineral drench with chelated copper in it if we have reason to believe they are needing it.
We haven't had swayback here, but I did experience it very rarely on the moorland farm, with mules out of Swales, even though we used the copper needles. We switched to the mineral drench with chelated copper in it and found it as good or better than the needles.
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I have BWMs and I was finding that they were getting white patches on them, and the classic "spectacles" look, so I had my grass analysed and it had high molybdenum and iron which was blocking the copper intake. I now use a drench with copper included.
I can recommend JG Animal Health for forage analysis, Jonathan is very friendly and helpful. You'll see his stand at a lot of the big shows.
Note - get your forage (grass, or silage etc) analysed rather than the soil as the content in the soil isnt't necessarily a reflection of the content in the grass. Obviously if you are feeling flush get them both done :).
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Anyone can recommend a soil testing service?
JG Animal Health have one.