The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Janette1970 on August 05, 2009, 03:05:05 pm
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A begginners question here:
I am thinking of getting 2 middle white piglets to rear for meat. My books haven't arrived yet and I was just wondering what the minimum size would be to make the enclosure for them. I think I have plenty of space but my husband is not so sure.
Do chickens and ducks have an impact on space if they are kept together?
I've got some work to do though to get the ground ready (take down old yew tree :'(, put up fencing, make an ark). I've got my eye on some belfast sinks on ebay!!!
Not much cash at the moment so must do the work myself and with help from teenage boys (3 sons).
We can't wait to get started. Just getting over a summer cold (or maybe swine flu :D) then we will be out working.
Any help would be greatfully received.
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Hi we started off with 2 boar weaners, built a pen sized 30'x30' roughly! my Dad built an ark from timber we already had, the pigs thrived although they dug up the whole pen!! as soon as they went we missed them so much we got some more!, we now have a sow, 4 of her piglets almost porker weight, a young boar and have just bought a 6mth old gilt to breed from! Oh and have since built 2 more pens another ark and have another ark being delivered this weekend! Pigs are addictive, great characters, terrible time wasters and the the best pork you've ever tasted!! my chickens and ducks are kept separate, its not unknown for a pig to kill and eat a chicken :o good luck and keep us posted on the progress!
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Might be worth considering something other than the belfast sink for feeding / providing water, you'll find you have to upend it regularly to wash it out - pigs are messy buggers when it comes to eating & drinking ! ;)
Our 2 were in 1/4 acre with an ark made from an unused oil tank, and like dixie's they dug the whole thing up (they had great fun doing it !)
On the chicken & duck subject - I suspect you'd end up with REALLY badly poached ground, and it might end up quite smelly :P if they were kept together. I'm also not sure if they'll be happy to sleep in the same house - I wouldn't have thought so, but more knowledgable peeps than me will keep you right on that.
Hope you're soon better, enjoy your pigs, but be warned - they're REALLY addictive !
Karen
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I'm not too sure about this but wouldn't the pigs eat the chickens and ducks?
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If you're going for the smallest area in which to keep pigs (am confused why you wouldn't give as much as you possibly could) then I would suggest that you DO keep chickens in with them. The chickens will keep the soil clean of pests. I wouldn't keep ducks in there too,all three types of animal require three different types of housing. Chickens and pigs will be ok housed together if the pigs don't rip out/crush the roosting bar,ducks won't sit under a sh***ing chicken or lie next to a pig! Also,pigs keep their nests very clean and dry and you'll be constantly changing a whole arkful of straw each time,instead of a small roosting area if you house chickens and pigs together.
Personally,the minimum space I'd provide would be a 15 x 15metre area.As for clearing the land for the pigs,don't bother,they'll do that for you.Try to source a good supply of grass seed,and other understory, for after the pigs are in the freezer and let the land rest for 6 months in between batches of weaners.
Books are great as a start,but experience is better,and there's a ton of experienced pig keepers on here. Trawl through the posts in this section and ask any Q's you feel you need more info on,best of luck.......Ree
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MrRee, do you keep chickens in with your pigs?
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Thanks Ree, the reason I need to know the minimum is so I can prove to my husband that we actually have plenty of space for a couple of pigs.
I also need to know if the pigs need flat(ish) land? The best grazing for my piggys would be over quite a steep riverbank hump until this side of my bank is 'ploughed up' and re-seeded like you suggest. I am re-thinking my chuck plans as I need to keep piggys away from a protected copper beech (the chucks can live under here, next to nextdoor's chucks).
All neighbours are happy about me having pigs so long as they get a couple of chops out of it ;D
So now to the labourious task of reading up on all the paperwork I need to do as well as arrange fencing and housing. Is there 1 place I can go to (on the net) where I can get all the info/forms I need or is it a little more complicated that this?
Thanks again
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Hi...I'm assuming you know that you have to be registered to keep pigs and that you do have a CPH number...all the information you require can be found on the DEFRA website and if you want more specific information visit the BPA (British Pig Association) website or Middle White Breeders Club site.
what's suitable for some breeds may not be for others and Middle Whites do have a tendency to grow quite big, so you will need secure fencing and sufficient space to let them run off any fat. Sloping ground is not a problem, but they will dig it up and if you intend keeping pigs as a long term venture you should have additional space so that you can let the ground rest and recover - one large enclosure can be sectioned off using electric fencing with moveable pig arks...its cheaper than erecting permenant fencing/housing and easier to manage. Oh and make sure there is sufficient shade and fresh water available.
I have free range chickens that roam with our pigs but they are housed separately. I don't mix my chucks and ducks as their housing needs are different. Hope this is of some help, but best of luck anyway!
Regards
Farmer
:farmer:
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Tamworths are quite adept at coping with very sloping ground. My GOS prefer flatter areas. Our chickens and ducks free range as do one or two of our pigs, so they do go intogether.
Definitely separate housing.
A friend's sow ate all of his young ducklings. Another has a chicken catcher/killer pig.
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I do keep my chickens in with the pigs Dixie.The pigs have one half of the barn and the chickens have the other half.They are both free to roam as the door is permanently open.
Janette,I don't know about the Uk regs,but here in France one can't keep pigs on land that borders water,they have to be kept 35 metres away to stop contamination of the river/stream. The best place for you to get the info you need is here,for all the forms,as Framer noted, check out the Defra site.
Also,you'll be wanting to source your weaners quite locally to cut down on transport time for them,so why not pop along to your local breeder (when you've chosen your breed) and have a chat with them,you'll get to see how they do it and will be able to adapt some ideas to suit your own needs. They should be only too happy to answer any questions and you might even be able to get a deal for feed through them........Ree
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I'm not too sure about this but wouldn't the pigs eat the chickens and ducks?
Our pigs once scoffed a brood of ducklings infront of us as they attempted to cross the pig pen.
With regard to pig pens, then the answer is as big as possible within reason. Having said that, pigs will live perfectly happily in a traditional pig sty. The more confined that pigs are within a pen, then the muddier it will be.
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MrRee, thats interesting I'd have thought the pigs would see a chicken and think 'lunch'!!
As for space, if you're fattening weaners then too large an area would give them more space to burn off calories, perhaps taking longer to finish? Weaners are fairly expensive to raise for the freezer and I personally dont want to feed them longer than necessary, I took advice from an experienced pig breeder, who breeds for meat, for breeding and showing, and went with the recommended pen size. They have plenty of room to root and wallow etc so everyones happy. :pig:
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:o Sorry to hear about the ducklings being eaten in front of you. That's terrible!! :o
Thanks for the advice. I'm planning on placing my ark over two separate pens so I can open the door into whichever pen I want them to use. This should allow the ground to recover easily, although they will need time to establish a wallow!!!!
Does anyone have any idea about the water thing? This could seriously scupper my plans!!! The bank hump itself is 35' over the arc. but only 20' flat the other side before the river!!! And it is the Trent!The udercurrents are the killer (been in it!!!)
Is it true that pigs slit thier own throats if they try to swim or is it just a myth!! I know chickens don't do too well hence the hen house will be this side of the bank!!!
Been on the defra site and made a list of chain of events that need to be done!! Someone in the pub said I needed to register my 'herd' with another established herd!! Is this right?
I thought Middle White's didn't grow that big?!?!
Can anyone suggest a smaller cross breed that has a good temperament and good pork? Not too bothered about bacon or looks, they're all lovely to me! A cross breed might be cheeper for me to start with!!!
My uncle used to have a few pigs and piglets. I ought to ask him his advice but I know his were kept in a barn and were a more comercial breed (very large pink pigs). He stopped having them when the regs got tougher! I think he might try to put me off.
I know its a big undertaking but a pig is NOT for life!!! Just 6,7,8 months of caring and enjoying my pigs. Then its yum,yum, in my tum!! :yum:
Might need to buy another freezer though, or make sure I empty them in time!!!
How long can you keep the frozen meat in the freezer for?
Sorry for all the questions. I guess I'll still be learning after years of piggy rearing.
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Good idea to share the ark with 2 pens. I dont know about the water thing, try ringing defra. I thought middle whites were a large breed?? I'd recommend gloucester old spots, tamworths, berkshires or a cross breed of these types. They all taste good! See what you can get reasonably priced near to you. You dont need to register your herd with a herd! Firstly you need a CPH number, ring your local animal health office, thy'll sort that out, once you have that you can move pigs onto your holding with a movement form,then contact defra to register your herd and they will issue a herd number or you can do this before you actually get the pigs. I'd keep the meat frozen for up to a year maybe more if it lasts that long!!
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Thanks Dixie I had no idea you could keep the meat for that long... Thats fantastic.
Just rung for my CPH number BLIMEY that was so simple Why was I so worried!!!
Having read through the defra guides and bits and bobs it looks reasonably easy paperwork wise!
Just need my fencing and ark and water troughs and food and straw and and and .......
Might be a few more months before I'm ready for my piggys.
I will ring about the river issue and get that sorted.
Someone did mention that I would have to pay to get a licence?!!? Not sure where he got that from?!!!? Can anyone confirm this for me?
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Licence for what??
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im no expert but i would be concerned about having pigs near were a yew has been. unless your planning to clear its roots then there is a risk of them eating some. it would really be wise to keep your animals separate. apart from the odd snack you could be introducing a risk of contamination. on to having them near a stream what happens if it floods. spend a lot of time think about what your planning. i always think of the worst event and plan for it. that way you dont end up with dead pigs.
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Good idea to share the ark with 2 pens. I dont know about the water thing, try ringing defra. I thought middle whites were a large breed?? I'd recommend gloucester old spots, tamworths, berkshires or a cross breed of these types. They all taste good! See what you can get reasonably priced near to you. You dont need to register your herd with a herd! Firstly you need a CPH number, ring your local animal health office, thy'll sort that out, once you have that you can move pigs onto your holding with a movement form,then contact defra to register your herd and they will issue a herd number or you can do this before you actually get the pigs. I'd keep the meat frozen for up to a year maybe more if it lasts that long!!
sorry dixie but after your cph number you need to get the pig holding number before you can get pigs. the movement licence from one holding to another which must be sent to animal health within 48 hours.
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Shetlandpual,
the River Trent does not tend to come onto the bank to any great extent where I live. There is a massive flood plane at Newark where any excess goes. If it does come up higher than normal then it is definately with no force. (Not yet anyway!!!) I've lived on its banks for 30 years and in all that time it came up onto my mum's bank once back in 1982!!
All things considered, I was thinking of having a second ark on the river side of the bank but was considering raising it off the ground a little. Could the pigs cope with this? If not, I could put the ark ontop of the embankment.
Would the pigs use their intelligence to move away from any flood water should this occur or will they relish the opportunity to make a bloomin big wallow!!! It will be securely fenced so they will not wash away! And the river does have some wildlife in it (eels and fish + the odd misguided seal!!) so they would not be harmed by the water.
As for contaminating the river, plenty of people have horses on their banks. Would a couple of pigs be that much different?!?!?
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im not sure. would your fencing prevent them getting into the water. i can just picture me trying to get a 200 pound pig out of the river. if you feel that its safe then it is. but if there is an alternative site then think about changing things around. with such a nice big river ducks and geese would be better for a river side site. but enjoy what you do and always remember they will be food one day.
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I would definately make the fence strong enough so they can't get in. Any thoughts on my other posting, the Parish Council thing??!? Mother seems to think they could order me to shut down if anyone complains!!!!
:'( :'( :'(
Really beginning to wonder if its just a pipe dream :'( :'( :'(
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Ree is that right about the pigs distance from river? Does it apply nationally? I ask because my pigs quite like a wallow in the river when its hot (despite having wallows available). One is regularly to be seen grazing the banks from the water. We have fishermen down here all the time, none has yet complained. Now I am really worried as they are the the most voluble and have a big input to the River Police. Help .... please
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Stick with it - don't worry too much about the CPH number, it's just to register the land as approved to keep animals (as far as I know) you'll not get a lynch mob of angry locals complaining !
Although it seems like a lot of hassle, you'll only have to do it the once - same goes for fencing and clearing the site to make it safe. It's much better to have everything in place - especially good, STRONG, fencing then you'll not have the worry of escaping pigs roaming the country or swimming off down the river (do pigs swim, I'm not sure?)
It's soooooo worth it once you've got your pigs you'll be looking for other potential homes around your land so you can get more, and more, and more........... :pig:
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sorry dixie but after your cph number you need to get the pig holding number before you can get pigs. the movement licence from one holding to another which must be sent to animal health within 48 hours.
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Not according to the paperwork I have here from defra! it states once you have your CPH number you can move pigs to your holding with an AML 2 movement form, once the pigs are on your holding you need to register them with defra with the animal health office! The white copy of the movement form must then be sent to trading standards within 3 days of the move!
Heres the link, worth downloading and printing it off to keep Janette1970;
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/id-move/pigs/pdf/new_owner_guide.pdf
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our cph is --/---/0123
our pig herd number is the above --/---/0123/05 you also have a herd mark ours is z2419 just phone the animal health people and tell them that you plan to keep pigs after you have your cph. sounds complicated but its dead easy. expect a visit within a couple of months. mainly to do with what your feeding ours is very friendly. thou both times he has come we have had none.
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HM I'm only quoting what John and Kate told me,not sure if it's local,Dept or National. I know I had to have my fosse tout eau sited 35metres downhill from my well,so it kinda figures. Thing is,we're sited on La See,the best salmon and trout river in France,so might be a bit more stringent.....Ree
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feeding your pigs on salmon and trout now they are posh pigs.
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Thanks Ree.
Ours is just a trout river.
We had a big flood in our lowest field once. It was January. The pigs moved out of their threatend arc and onto the higher area. However the younger ones did tend to make a big thing of swimming in the flood. They appeared to enjoy it.