The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: colliewobbles on July 12, 2013, 01:04:04 pm
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Hi all - we have our third lot of rescued hens from Little Hen Rescue. The previous two lots have been from caged hens that were in very poor condition - however, apart from losing one nearly immediately they all did really well and provided us with lots of eggs for a long time.
We got another dozen about 4 months ago - this time they appeared in better condition and were quite well feathered. We were told these were better because they were farmed under the new, improved conditions.
Since then a couple have suffered a prolapse which we have managed to cure and they have recently all moulted and re-feathered. However, they all still look quite scraggy and don't look as good as our previous hens have after a few months. Added to this the laying is really sporadic. For some time we were getting very weak eggs with rippled shells - we have given them a period of tonic in water, plenty of grit and wormed them. They are mixed with our ducks and 7 older chooks and have around 1/8 acre to free-range in.
Despite all of this laying is really sporadic - two days ago we got 14 eggs, yesterday we got 4 eggs but generally it is around 6-7 a day - not a lot from 19 hens!
We realise some of our older girls won't be laying regularly now but it seems that even the new ones aren't. Do you think we have just been unlucky with this bunch or maybe they are now older when then come into rescue? Or could there be something else going wrong that we haven't thought of?
Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can share. :wave:
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What you don't know is how good their diet was before rescue, either.
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What you don't know is how good their diet was before rescue, either.
There's a thought - maybe they have improved their housing but cut back on feeding costs!
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mine used to go off lay in hot weather.
maybe they are a diferent type of hybrid if they are kept in different conditions.
i never got many eggs of our ex-commercial hens as they use to eat them before i had chance to collect them :rant:
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We had 20 ex organic hybrids a while back. They were a disaster, poor things. Very feather pecked and very skittish. Eggs we very thin and most broke during laying. Those that survived were eaten by the hens who would hang around the nest boxes all day waiting for eggs to be laid. We wormed them, did grit, ACV and everything else we could think of. They had the best feed, mixed corn, greens and were on fresh grass. Spent a load of time and money putting in roll away boxes which the eggs just smashed in but it was just too depressing in the end. We gave them away to someone, clearly warning them what the issues were. I think in total we lost a few hundred quid on it all.
I wouldn't do it again to be honest. My feeling is that these things are bred and bred to a point where they are totally finished at 18 months. I also feel in some way that taking these birds on gives the battery owners a nice get out so they can feel better about what they do. But I can also see why people want to rescue them. Good luck with your birds. Hope you can pull them around.
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We are wondering if the hot weather has anything to do with it. But also wondering if they are just never gonna be particularly good - as experienced by Stereo. To be honest, it has put us off getting rescued again and we are thinking of getting some good quality POLs if we don't see an improvement in the next 4-6 weeks.
Trouble is we now have a bunch of loyal customers at dog training who want our eggs from us but we are not even getting close to the amount we need! Typical hey?
Donna
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I was getting 5 eggs from 2 young leghorns and 4 old hybrids, occasionally 6. At the moment I'm getting 3. I've put it down to the heat.
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I have kept hens for many years, both POL and lately rescue hens, plus some ;pure bred older hens that have been gifted to me. I have noticed they lay like mad in the spring and then have a couple of weeks rest about now, and then start again.
I have probably 60 hens supposedly laying at the moment, the others being broody, or too old. I am getting about 18 eggs a day, but suspect some are laying away from the sheds - that is an issue with rescue hens, they lay anywhere. Some days the total has been 10. I also think the weather is an issue.
To get them laying really good, they need a lot of layers pellets - I mean a lot, which would not be cost effective to be honest.
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We had a Scottish poultry farmer staying in our farm holiday cottage last year and she said that they moved their birds on after two years because the eggs got bigger and bigger but used the same amount of shell, so the shells got thinner and thinner. At any one time they had 20,000 in lay and two batches coming on ready to replace them. We keep rare breed large, soft-feathered fowl and use farm gate egg sales to help cover the cost of breeding them. We find our home-reared birds will be in lay by Winter (we don't start up the incubators until after lambing's finished) and lay well until the following Autumn, slowing down or ceasing through the moult. We therefore sell off the previous year's laying birds in late summer and the Autumn - they'll lay well and for many years for their new owners but not be as productive through the Winters.
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Gale Dumelow says the same thing as MF -only an amount of shell and spread over a bigger egg means thin shells with bigger eggs. Battery hybrids are not meant to last over 18 months and they have been selectively bred to produce the maximum possible in that period. Later birds should be more efficient in meeting that objective so have less left when re-homed than their predecessors. Have we come to the end of ex-batts?
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Have we come to the end of ex-batts?
Could be a possibility :(
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Officially ex batts ended some time ago to be replaced with the 'enriched cages' , in many people's opinion just a move to appease those that protested over the whole battery cage system. In truth I don't believe they are an improvement.
Most intensively farmed hens (cage,barn and free range) are regarded as spent within the year and that is when they are got rid of. It is only a small number that get rescued for rehoming in relation to the numbers discarded by the system.
You will never be able to compare to getting pol but there is no reason why the majority once recovered from their ordeal shouldn't go on to lay reasonably well, it just takes a little time, as the originator of the thread has already discovered.
I dont know but wouldn't expect that they are fed on inferior feed as surely that would compromise their laying in the factory farm ?
Mine are kept seperate from the rest of the flock on being brought home, given a day to get used to their surroundings then are treated for lice/mites . Worming with flubenvet the 2nd week. Fed mainly on good pellet but healthy treats with protein are offered eg meal worm, oily fish,live white maggots. Quite often it takes their digestive system a while to settle so no extra greens like cabbage/lettuce etc are offered or they tend to get what we call dire rear :innocent: which can set recovery back.
Thin egg shell can be improved by adding limestone flour to their feed or even ground baked eggshells help, though very distorted eggs usually indicate a problem unlikely to be easily sorted .
To answer the question was I unlucky this time, I think you may have been, rescue organisation don't go to just the one outlet so maybe this release of hens had come from a less well run farm.
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Personally I think getting eggs from ex- batt's would just be a bonus ;D . The Main reason for having them is to give the poor little sods a second chance at life :thumbsup: . Like any animal or any one that has been through a pro longed traumatic experience, there is a fairly high chance they are going to have psychological problems and need a little extra care and tolerance :hug: .
Sorry if this offends anyone, it's just how I feel about ex batts.
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I agree with you Bert. Getting eggs is just a bonus really. Problem is the expectations of people taking them in I suppose, because the release centres don't give people the full picture at all. I've heard good reports of ex-bats and seen happy pictures. I've also heard of major problems and high mortality which is very upsetting for the keepers. Certainly not the thing to take on as a first time keeper.
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We weren't going on what the rescue centre said, we were going on previous experience which has been very good. Between me and my sister we have had around 50 in the past with good results and no particular problems - I just think that this batch seem less hardy and was wondering if the poor egg laying could also be as a result of that too.
Overall, given what people have said on here, I think it is probably a combination of the very warm weather and a change in the husbandry of these birds in their commercial setting.
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I had 4 POLs two years ago to start with, then added 4 ex commercial free range 18 months ago that would be over 3 now and was getting 6-7 eggs a day from those 8 last summer. I have since added 20 odd others of mixed age/breed but after a couple of weeks of 17 a day through the spring I am now lucky to get into double figures and that is with finding the latest hidden eggs..
Some of the older ones have died off or stopped laying, tellable by the combs fading, but I do think the heat has got to them and I also think becoming free range for 12-14 hours a day has reduced egg numbers because they're not eating solely the layer pellets and evening corn, they're on a more varied diet and are hiding under bushes in the shade much of the day rather than mooching about scratching and eating. I am assuming the pellets are formulated to encourage maximum production compared to a mixed garden environment ???
I still get more eggs than I can sell or eat myself so I don't grudge the older hens their retirement and keeping up with the nettle patches they favour laying behind is keeping me on course with the gardening this summer but I could do with a bit of cooler weather myself as I don't find shade under bushes, I find clegs.. :(
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The layers pellets we buy here (Sanders) are designed as a supplement to free ranging in that they have a whopping 5.5% calcium. Most chickens around here are left to wander freely and predator losses are just accepted (or roadkill). Because ours have eaten the enclosure clean so are really only eating pellets, we have started mixing rearers and layers to get back to 3%.
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Personally I think getting eggs from ex- batt's would just be a bonus ;D . The Main reason for having them is to give the poor little sods a second chance at life :thumbsup: . Like any animal or any one that has been through a pro longed traumatic experience, there is a fairly high chance they are going to have psychological problems and need a little extra care and tolerance :hug: .
Sorry if this offends anyone, it's just how I feel about ex batts.
How happy I am to read this Bert , for very obvious reasons :hug: : they do deserve what freedom they can get after the tough year in the factories. Anyone rehoming these hens and expecting to profit by it will likely be disappointed , anyone rehoming with your outlook will be delighted. I have rehomed 3 times and all the hens have come back into lay, once they are restored to fitness and they are the friendliest and tamest and easiest to handle of any of my mixed bag of hens.
To answer the point about rehoming centres maybe misleading people a bit, actually fair comment to a degree, the rehoming centre I am connected with does say they will lay for years to come but as already said the ones I have taken myself have on average laid for a good 18 months. Also when rehomed they go with a care sheet and contacts for any problems that may arise. Should anyone find they are 'not for them' we would do our best to take them back again.
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Personally I think getting eggs from ex- batt's would just be a bonus ;D . The Main reason for having them is to give the poor little sods a second chance at life
This is exactly why I got mine years ago. We had never had hens before, bought a croft, got half a dozen ex batts just because we had the space, free ranged over 20 acres. Came running to my dog whistle at mealtimes! ever so funny watching them, :roflanim: wish I'd had my video phone then. :innocent: They did all lay from time to time, but we got other breeds to supplement.
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We have a house full of rescued animals and we are not looking to make a profit from any of them. But up until now the chooks have kind of paid for themselves with the lovely eggs we have had - we bought the extra dozen because our friends at dog training all love the eggs and said they would by from us if we got more. Now we are in the position of having lots more chickens but seemingly less eggs than before!!
My original question was that these ladies don't seem to laying anywhere close to what we have had previously and I was trying to work out why that might be.
Please everyone - lets not turn this into a thread where people are put down for hoping to sell on their eggs. I do lots of stuff for rescued animals aside from the chickens which I don't need to discuss or justify here.
Donna
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Sorry if that's how I came across, not intended that way. :-[ :-[
My surplus eggs are sold to friends and neighbours too. Just saying that I got mine for their good first and foremost and the eggs were a delicious bonus. I was chuffed to bits to find one of my ex batts had survived the fox attack and I think she is one of my best layers; she's also the friendliest of all six.
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:hug: :hug: :hug: no harm done xx
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We have a house full of rescued animals and we are not looking to make a profit from any of them. But up until now the chooks have kind of paid for themselves with the lovely eggs we have had - we bought the extra dozen because our friends at dog training all love the eggs and said they would by from us if we got more. Now we are in the position of having lots more chickens but seemingly less eggs than before!!
My original question was that these ladies don't seem to laying anywhere close to what we have had previously and I was trying to work out why that might be.
Please everyone - lets not turn this into a thread where people are put down for hoping to sell on their eggs. I do lots of stuff for rescued animals aside from the chickens which I don't need to discuss or justify here.
Donna
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Oops I seemed to have lost my voice :roflanim:
What I was going to say is I:did say that the rescues come from different sources , even if they end up at the same centre so you could be right in thinking your last lot were from a less well managed establishment (I am being so polite there) but other reason such as the weather at present has a lot to do with a slow down in eggs being laid.
A couple of rescued hens makes anyones flock richer by their antics , if nothing else.
We have silkies,hybrids ,pure breeds and ex batts all living peacefully together in the back garden, I get a mixture of egg sizes and colours/patterns and the people that buy them wouldn't go elsewhere now as they love the mixtures and know the hens are looked after properly.
They are just lovely pets who do a lot towards contributing towards their keep which , much as I love the dogs and cats, can't be said about them :roflanim:
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I am pretty sure they were different sources although from the same rescue.
Funny thing is - the first 3 lots we have had over the years have been the ones you see in a terrible state, battery farmed with no feathers. They have come on great and laid plenty of eggs.
This lot looked much better when we got them - rescue lady told us they were from the new enriched cages which is why the looked better. They could have been from the same farm as before - but they were definitely kept under the new conditions.
Donna
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If it's any comfort, mine are not laying as well as they were two weeks ago - I think it's the heat :)
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Personally I think getting eggs from ex- batt's would just be a bonus ;D . The Main reason for having them is to give the poor little sods a second chance at life :thumbsup: . Like any animal or any one that has been through a pro longed traumatic experience, there is a fairly high chance they are going to have psychological problems and need a little extra care and tolerance :hug: .
Sorry if this offends anyone, it's just how I feel about ex batts.
How happy I am to read this Bert , for very obvious reasons :hug: : they do deserve what freedom they can get after the tough year in the factories. Anyone rehoming these hens and expecting to profit by it will likely be disappointed , anyone rehoming with your outlook will be delighted. I have rehomed 3 times and all the hens have come back into lay, once they are restored to fitness and they are the friendliest and tamest and easiest to handle of any of my mixed bag of hens.
To answer the point about rehoming centres maybe misleading people a bit, actually fair comment to a degree, the rehoming centre I am connected with does say they will lay for years to come but as already said the ones I have taken myself have on average laid for a good 18 months. Also when rehomed they go with a care sheet and contacts for any problems that may arise. Should anyone find they are 'not for them' we would do our best to take them back again.
It doesn't offend me at all. We sell eggs on the gate and ever increasing demand meant we needed a quick fix. Space wasn't a problem, we just needed hens. We looked at POL but most are classed as POL at about 14 weeks these days! So we found a local organic egg producer who was selling off their ex layers for £1.50 each. We spoke to them and they said they were currently laying 3-4 good eggs a week each. So we took them at their word and bought 20. The idea wasn't to make a profit, just give them a second chance in our field and keep the egg box full for our customers as we were worried they would stop coming if it was always empty. We saw them as a stop gap as we had 48 eggs in the incubator which will be laying probably late autumn. Our plan was to give the ex layers away in small batches once these came into lay.
It was just a disaster. We accepted the initial low laying rate as stress from the move. But it never picked up and they didn't half go through the layers (good, expensive A+P stuff). As I said, any eggs they did lay were brittle and most got eaten anyway. We tried all sorts but they turned into a money pit. I know now that they should have gone as pets. The point is that we feel a bit ripped off as the people selling them to us either lied or had no idea of the problems we would face. We knew it was a risk and we didn't have high expectations and worked our calcs on 2 eggs per hen a week to break even which we would have been happy with, just to keep the customers supplied. We never got anywhere near that.
A lesson to us, that's for sure.
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Like you Stereo I have quite a lot customers at the gate so while I think that it is commendable that people rehome these birds it's not for me either. Feed costs are just so high that I can't afford freeloaders ( says she with some ancient light sussex and a few very old hybrids) but I kid myself on that just because I see them come out the nesting boxes they must be laying :innocent: