The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: mustbemadtokeepgoats on July 09, 2013, 01:23:57 pm

Title: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: mustbemadtokeepgoats on July 09, 2013, 01:23:57 pm

I'm new to this and it's my first post, so I'd like to say hello to everyone first! I'm 16 and have a herd of 5 goats as of a month ago.

Recently the SBV vaccine has become available to use and a few goat keepers have used it. One who used it discovered her herd was very ill, completely off colour, didn't eat, had a temperature and it took them a good 10 days before they started to perk up.

Although not many, if any, goats have definitely had Schmallenberg I do believe that all the problems that people have had this year with still born kids etc. is to do with it.

However, is it worth risking the health of the kids next year and maybe even the mothers by not vaccinating?

I'm really unsure of what to do but have decided for the time being to wait until at least September before I vaccinate mine if at all, so I can see how other peoples goats react to it.

What will everyone else do?

xx
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: Rosemary on July 09, 2013, 02:27:10 pm
Hello and welcome from  :sunshine: Carnoustie  :wave:

I've done our cattle (1st of 2 jags) and half our sheep with no apparent ill effects. Sure someone will be on soon to chat about goats  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: wytsend on July 09, 2013, 02:54:35 pm
Yes 1 or 2 people are reporting their goats not well after the vaccine......................but I feel that it is worth the risk to prevent the huge losses this year.
Possibly select a time when  the weather is not hot, as this add stress.
You need approx. 3 weeks for the vaccine to be effective, so plan ahead.   You also need to do any STUD males as the virus has been found in semen.
I am certain all  the various birth defects reported are caused by the virus...................too coincidental to be not connected.   I lost 8 kids to pneumonia as well..........also could be connected via lowered immune systems plus the awful weather.
Frankly, have never had such a bad kidding period as this year.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: fsmnutter on July 09, 2013, 03:27:07 pm
Hi there
As a vet, I was at a meeting in Aberdeen on Thursday when MSD were launching the vaccine to us.
They advised that with small herds of goats it may well be worth vaccinating, basically it sounds like the side effects are short term temperature and upset tums, so may feel bad for a short while and then pick up. The alternative - potentially dead kids, a very difficult and unpleasant kidding for all concerned - is probably much worse than a short period of being ill. They advised dosing in the same way as sheep, with 2ml single injection, at least 3 weeks before covering with a billy/AI.
In terms of doing breeding males, the vaccine manufacturers have a statement on the label NOT to vaccinate breeding males, as they are not sure what the effects on fertility are. Although the virus is known to be spread by midges, there is still a possibility of spread by other means such as semen, but they don't know yet. As adult animals tend to have mild disease, and the main problems are when pregnant females are infected early in pregnancy, covering any females that are going to become pregnant in my opinion has to be worth it.
Hope that helps
Suzanne
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: Rosemary on July 09, 2013, 05:22:10 pm
You also need to do any STUD males as the virus has been found in semen.

I was also told by my vet not to do any breeding males.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: mustbemadtokeepgoats on July 09, 2013, 05:33:54 pm
Now this is interesting because I was under the impression by my vet and other goat keepers that you DO have to do males... this is the sort of thing that puts me off vaccinating just yet as so many people have been told and think different things. The person I know did her male....apparently is been found in bull semen and that's why we're supposed to do them...

Thank you everyone for your input!
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: wytsend on July 10, 2013, 06:19:24 am
My Vet also told that males must be done...........after consultation with the manufacturers.
Now I am in a quandary whether to do the boys or not.
I will seek advice from the Goat Veterinary Society.
 
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: Rosemary on July 10, 2013, 09:08:59 am
Maybe it's just male goats to be done. I was cetrainly told not to do tups or the bull.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: wytsend on July 10, 2013, 11:52:42 am
The virus was found in bull semen I believe.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: fsmnutter on July 10, 2013, 01:32:06 pm
I believe the advice - and the statement of fact on the label - not to do breeding males stems from the fact that Schmallenberg virus itself may impair fertility, and they are not sure whether the vaccine will also impair fertility. Won't be much good vaccinating the boys to stop them spreading the virus to the females and causing deformed lambs/calves/kids if they don't produce any lambs/calves/kids in the first place!
I think if breeding females are vaccinated, it would not matter one bit if they get virus from the semen, because they are protected from it by the vaccine, so you can leave the males unvaccinated.
Personally, if I had billies for my goats or rams for my ewes, I would NOT be vaccinating the males, but will be vaccinating the females if I am going to get them covered this year.
Hope that helps
Suzanne
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: wytsend on July 10, 2013, 03:22:02 pm
Right peeps................have now been able to get advice from Bovilis the manufacturer & VETS.
This is the info given & is attached.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: Lesley Silvester on July 10, 2013, 04:16:21 pm
This is interesting. I don't usually vacinate my goats as my vet thought it unnecessary as they do not have contact with others, but I have wondered about this one. Now thinking that maybe I should. Is it an under the skin vacination or intra-muscular?
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: Rosemary on July 10, 2013, 04:40:10 pm
I don't usually vacinate my goats as my vet thought it unnecessary as they do not have contact with others, Is it an under the skin vacination or intra-muscular?

Schmallenberg is midge borne, like Blue Tongue, so goat to goat contact is unnecessary for infection.

It's subcutanueous for sheep, so I would assume the same for goats (IM for cattle - I have the bruises  ::) )
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: Lesley Silvester on July 10, 2013, 09:47:47 pm
If it's IM for goats, the vet can come and do it.  :roflanim:
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: ballingall on July 10, 2013, 09:58:13 pm
This is interesting. I don't usually vacinate my goats as my vet thought it unnecessary as they do not have contact with others, but I have wondered about this one. Now thinking that maybe I should. Is it an under the skin vacination or intra-muscular?


Are your goats not covered for tetanus then?


Beth
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: ballingall on July 10, 2013, 11:03:07 pm
Hello mbmtkg!


 :wave:


We haven't decided what to do yet. Would have preferred to discuss it with our vets, but we are having vet trouble at the mo (practice we have used for 8 years has been bought over, and the vets who have treated the goats for these last 8 years are having to now do small animals only, so we have to start with the other practice who bought them over as they are doing the large animal work instead). Will need to decide soon, because I have a couple of goats I would get served in September if they come in.


Beth
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: wytsend on July 11, 2013, 10:42:23 am
It is a subcutaneous for goats.........same as the clostridial one.
The recommendation is to vaccinate all breeding females....................hopefully to help reduce spread of virus and to ensure (as far as possible) the health and well being of next year's kids
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: Lesley Silvester on July 11, 2013, 09:59:49 pm
This is interesting. I don't usually vacinate my goats as my vet thought it unnecessary as they do not have contact with others, but I have wondered about this one. Now thinking that maybe I should. Is it an under the skin vacination or intra-muscular?


Are your goats not covered for tetanus then?


Beth

Not for anything but they are yarded so less risk of injury.

It is a subcutaneous for goats.........same as the clostridial one.
The recommendation is to vaccinate all breeding females....................hopefully to help reduce spread of virus and to ensure (as far as possible) the health and well being of next year's kids

I've been reading more stuff and it seems to just be in Scotland. as we are much further south and hardly have any midges, we may be safe. Forgot to ring the vet today so must do it tomorrow.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: wytsend on July 11, 2013, 10:43:12 pm
The actual path of the virus this year........taken from statistics of deformed/ problems out of the ordinary kids.........seems to be Kent, Sussex, along the south into Dorset, some unexplained issues in Devon.   Then through the middle of UK along Welsh borders.   It seems to have moved in a sort of diagonal fashion across UK.
Scotland is far from being the only area affected.     It is true that a number of reports may not have been Schmallenberg but these came from reputable sources who have never experienced such issues before..................so this must be taken into account.
I too, had a couple of kids with problems that certainly fitted the SBV symptoms but as they were born in January, it never crossed my mind at the time.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: ferretkeeper on July 12, 2013, 09:17:50 am
Had a long meeting with my vets yesterday to discuss a farm health plan.

SBV came up - she said she personally wasn't vaccinating her sheep.

It seems immunity is acquired by the mother if bitten say this time of year, and not in kid/lamb? Am I right in thinking it's the ones who are bitten and infected while pregnant that pass the virus on to the young? So it seemed to affect the early lambing(kidding) farms who want market ready lambs much earlier in the year than perhaps us smallholders, who can wait til spring for births and finish lambs etc in the autumn. That seems to be the answer for me, plus it's a much nicer time of year to be kidding and lambing, grass growing etc.

I lost a kid (then the nanny) at the start of April and the attending vet suspected SBV - the kid had some slight deformities. I had another kid born just a fortnight ago and being conceived later missed all midge activity, and she's 100% fine.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: wytsend on July 12, 2013, 04:41:18 pm
Immunity in an animal that has been bitten & then lambed/kidded ....is not certain.   Vets are generally advising vaccinate this year and assess the results.    Too many lambs/kids were lost this year to miscellaneous causes............ones not normally seen by v.experienced breeders.
Title: Re: SBV Vaccine (Schmallenberg)
Post by: Lesley Silvester on July 12, 2013, 05:45:12 pm
Thanks, Jane. I will definitely be talking to my vet about this, Shropshire being part of the Wales borders.