The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Equipment => Topic started by: goosepimple on July 09, 2013, 09:37:08 am
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I'm fed up with the crows, they're eating all our ducklings and leaving the mums with zero. OH mentioned getting an air rifle.
What is your experience. Is there any noise at all (don't want to scare the ducks and geese).
At what distance can you use them?
Do you need a license these days for one?
What's the alternative - we've tried scare crows with chiffon scarves which float easily in the wind but didn't work, they're nesting in the trees above the mill (duck) pond.
Many thanks.
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They can be virtually silent and as long as the power is under 12 ft-lbs, you don't need a licence. Depending o calibre you're looking at an effective killing range of 30-50yds. A decent air rifle is expensive, mind. You can pick up a .22LR for peanuts but you'll need a FAC
Crows are one of the species you can shoot all year round
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the old rural schoolboy stalwart air-rifle the BSA Meteor is still available IIRC, not sure of the price now but it used to be a good value, full power rifle.
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I bought a Weihrauch HW97K spring powered .22 air rifle right at the legal limit, second hand for £265 -a real bargain (£620 new). Also bought a big Milldot telesight for £56 (£150 new). The combination is incredible. Very accurate and very reliable with not too much noise. If you want quiet you need a gas powered unit with silencer which are rather more expensive. Fitting a silencer to a spring powered rifle does little as it's the spring that makes the noise. But I was looking for extreme reliability and ease of spare parts. Unfortunately it is above the French limit by a long way and the mainspring had to remain in the UK. Over here I need a Permis de Chasse to be able to own and use a sufficiently powerful air rifle.
You must hit them in the head Goosepimple -the pellets will bounce off their feathers.
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Remember you now have to keep it locked in an FAC standard cabinet. 30-50 yds is a bit hopeful, i would not go much further than 30 max, they just dont have the power. I normally use a 20 or 12 gauge shotgun, i do have a 22LR but sometimes they will take a few shots to get a clean kill.
You could try a larson trap - it needs to be registered with your local wildlife police officer. you could look at moderated shotguns they are very quiet with subsonic ammo.
The most effective way of dealing with them is by blowing the nests once the eggs are there. its brought our local population down from circa 800 to 100 ish.
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Remember you now have to keep it locked in an FAC standard cabinet
Not strictly true. In fairness, I didn't realise the law had changed but from the Crime and Security Act 2010:
"9. In many cases, this can be achieved by using an existing, suitably robust, lockable cupboard and by keeping the keys separate and secure. Alternatively, they could use a lock or locking device by which an air weapon can be attached to the fabric of a building, or to a fixed feature, or a security cord, lockable chain or similar device attached to a point of anchorage within the building."
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I thought it only had to be locked away if possibly accessible to someone under 16? On that basis we didn't put it in a gun cabinet but simply locked the shed. No matter now, you can't have them here as a 10 Joule rifle (8 ft lbs) wouldn't kill a rabbit over 15 yards and you never get that close anyway.
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killing crows ?
The OH is in Rutland just now and was sat in the garden with a 1 yea old and the 2 day old baby when a load of lead pellets showered the garden. they overlook fiels and the lads keeping crows off of crops were shooting up the hill towards the houses. neighbours called the police but the lads legged it and the farmer claims that he met them in a pub and does not know them.
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Do you need a license these days for one?
Seem to recall that Scotland are going to introduce legislation requiring Airguns to be licensed.
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it looks like that is the way its going. Any new rifle purchased needs to be registered. As for the last post on locking them away i don't agree as an FAC and a shot gun licence holder the current ruling by the police is it must not be accessable to anyone who is not authorised to use it so simply chaining it up does not wash. There has now been quite a few cases where people have been prosecuted for not having them properly secured when the police have visited for another reason.
The other option for goosepimple is to get in contact with the BASC and get someone locally who will be insured like myself. Also contact them for independent advice if you don't believe me.
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The OH is in Rutland just now and was sat in the garden with a 1 yea old and the 2 day old baby when a load of lead pellets showered the garden.
did anyone see countryfile this week about all the lead pellets found on land, kills ducks etc was interesting.
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Yeah what the guy being interviewed did not tell everyone was the land he bought used to be a clay pigeon ground...........
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As for the last post on locking them away i don't agree
Don't know whether you think the legislation is wrong but I quoted it direct from here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/crime-and-security-act-2010-commencement-no-2-order-2011-air-weapons (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/crime-and-security-act-2010-commencement-no-2-order-2011-air-weapons)
For a sub-12ftlbs rifle you don't need a cabinet
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If you dont belive me speak to your local firearms officer or the BASC, low power or not it still needs to be locked away.
Safe shooting everyone.
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Yeah what the guy being interviewed did not tell everyone was the land he bought used to be a clay pigeon ground...........
that would explain all those pellets on his roof then ! very bizarre not to mention that!
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If you dont belive me speak to your local firearms officer or the BASC, low power or not it still needs to be locked away.
Safe shooting everyone.
Luckily the police don't make or interpret the legislation; Parliament and the courts do.
The Home Office Guidance is pretty specific on this so would suggest that your Firearms Officer is wrong.
Reasonable precautions 6. The new offence requires people to take ‘reasonable precautions’ to prevent unauthorised access to an air weapon by young persons aged under 18. What will constitute ‘reasonable precautions’ will depend on the particular circumstances in each individual case and it is therefore not possible to be prescriptive. However, the simple steps set out below are a useful starting point. The guidance which follows has been drawn up in consultation with ACPO, the main shooting organisations and others to help everyone make informed and consistent decisions about the safe-keeping of air weapons.
7. Different considerations will apply depending on whether an air weapon is in use or not, and it is helpful to look at these scenarios separately.
Storage at home when not in use 8. A key issue is the presence, or likely presence, of young people under the age of 18. Many people either have young children themselves or are visited by friends and relatives with young children. In order to comply with the new provisions they will therefore need to take reasonable precautions to prevent those children gaining unauthorised access to any air weapons stored in their home.
9. In many cases, this can be achieved by using an existing, suitably robust, lockable cupboard and by keeping the keys separate and secure. Alternatively, they could use a lock or locking device by which an air weapon can be attached to the fabric of a building, or to a fixed feature, or a security cord, lockable chain or similar device attached to a point of anchorage within the building.
10. Where children are very young, it might be sufficient simply to store any air weapons up high and out of their reach, but some form of security cord or similar device would be preferable to guard against a climbing child or older children. This also applies where someone lives alone and they are not normally visited by children.
11. If someone keeps a number of air weapons, perhaps as tools of their job, it might be useful to look at some of the security measures set out in the Home Office’s Firearms Security Handbook 2005. Although that publication is aimed at the security of licensed firearms, they might find some of the Level One security measures suggested for certificate holders equally relevant to the safe storage of air weapons.
12. Anyone who already holds other firearms could use their existing gun cabinet for their air weapon, provided this did not compromise security of those other firearms.
13. Air weapons should be stored within the occupied part of a building and not in an outbuilding, such as a garage or shed, where there is no regular presence to check that the weapons remain secure.
14. Air weapons should always be unloaded when stored. However, this would not be sufficient in itself since the new offence relates to unauthorised access to the weapon. Neither could it be relied on to be safe since air weapon pellets can be accessible to young people and they could be in possession of some at the time they gain unauthorised access to an air weapon.
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Thank you all for your comprehensive inputs, it's a seed that's planted in our heads now so may not be until next year we do anything about it by which time laws etc may have changed so we will probably consult our local shooting shop about it.
Good to have some background knowledge on your thoughts though, many thanks all :)
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the old rural schoolboy stalwart air-rifle the BSA Meteor is still available IIRC, not sure of the price now but it used to be a good value, full power rifle.
Yes, I've got one of those. It's nothing fancy, but it does the job. I paid £150 for it second hand, including the scope and a carry case. HTH!
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This is very useful. For some reason my ex took our good air rifle with him, though he 'hates farming' (amongst other things!) so I'm not sure what he's going to use it for.
Whatever, I need a new one, the numbers of jackdaws here are ridiculous.
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as an aside how hard is it to get a fire arms licence for a proper .22 rifle?
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Bloomer if your keen to get invloved in shooting pm me and i can take you through it.
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To respond to Henchard, if you had an FAC you would know its the police that make it up as they go along just look at the recent news by the ACPO admitting it. They regularly come up with some crackers like you can have a licence but only if you shoot with a mentor. or if you want a handgun for dispatching you need to blank off 4 of the 6 revolver chambers duh, tell that to the red stag full of testosterone about to rip you to shreds. I'm a proud, responsible and insured shooter and have just completed my DSC level2. I cannot recommend enough joining an organisation such as the BASC or NOBS or countryside alliance.
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To respond to Henchard, if you had an FAC you would know.......
Whilst not wishing to get into an argument you said previously (and I do hold a shotgun certificate BTW)
As for the last post on locking them away i don't agree as an FAC and a shot gun licence holder the current ruling by the police is it must not be accessable to anyone who is not authorised to use it so simply chaining it up does not wash. .........
The other option for goosepimple is to get in contact with the BASC ..........Also contact them for independent advice if you don't believe me.
BASC also agree with me, in fact they publish their own guidance which is exactly the same as the advice I posted before
http://www.basc.org.uk/en/shooting/airgunning/airgun-guidance-and-fact-sheets.cfm (http://www.basc.org.uk/en/shooting/airgunning/airgun-guidance-and-fact-sheets.cfm)
Both the Home Office and BASC advice states
Alternatively, you could use a lock or locking device by which your air weapon can be attached to the fabric of a building, or to a fixed feature. Or you could use a security cord, lockable chain or similar device attached to a point of anchorage within the building.
For a succesful prosecution the police would first have to convince the CPS that they have a case (i.e nothing to do with any Police Officer) and then prove it in a court of law. The CPS would clearly not take a case where someone was clearly complying with the Home Office Guidance.
I've Googled for details of any prosecutions under the legislation and can find none. I'm not saying there aren't any but would just like to see details of these cases that you referred to previously.
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My 14 year old recently bought an air rifle.
He was just told that he couldn't carry it in public without a case. Was told that he could shoot on anyones land so long as he had permission.
Didn't think there were any rules for airgun storage only shotguns.
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We are talking about rifles here not shotguns. I don't feel that promoting the insecure storage of an item that has the potential to injure or kill someone is the kind of thing that should be on the forum. Besides none of this helps the original poster which is the point of the forum, they are probably more confused than when they started.
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My 14 year old recently bought an air rifle.
He was just told that he couldn't carry it in public without a case. Was told that he could shoot on anyones land so long as he had permission.
Didn't think there were any rules for airgun storage only shotguns.
A 14 year old was sold an air rifle :o
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did anyone see countryfile this week about all the lead pellets found on land, kills ducks etc was interesting.
interesting but very bias and mostly inaccurate
highest levels of lead found in cereal crop!!! therefore bread, beer etc but they wont mention that often
larson trap or reasonable air rifle and sitting quietly as crows are a very wary bird
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Hi nicandem, see previous post on this thread. I agree.
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I had the opportunity to buy a clay pigeon shooting ground many years ago. It occupied good farmland and had been in heavy use for 30 years. We calculated that the value of the lead on the ground was half the sale price and it can be extracted to about 90%. The topsoil is lifted and sieved. The fine material then goes between rollers which crushes the pellets. It is then re-seived and the flattened pellets taken out.
During my clay busting career I shot over two tons of lead I think -worked it out once. 150,000 one ounce cartridges. I knew many people on the circuit who had shot 10x that much.
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At £950 a tonne, that's pretty good going...
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'original poster', that's me :D , is not buying anything just now, just cooping our ducklings until they are 3 weeks old so they're too heavy for the crows to take. Would have to wait quite a bit longer so the Herons don't take them but they'll have to take their chance with them, can't shoot herons anyway they're protected (not that I'd want to, they are pests here but lovely).
Will try to live alongside nature for the time being.