The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Shropshirelass on July 04, 2013, 02:17:48 pm
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I'm thinking of getting a cheap smaller 4x4 to use to do a bit of farm work, & shifting heavy things & winter use & a bit of towing in future. What I want to know is can anybody recommend anything - I quite like the suzuki grand vitaras & Land rover freelanders but what are they like on fuel & what are their towing limits? For starters I'd only want to to small to medium sized garden trailers but eventually would like to try to tow small livestock trailers & horse boxes. I need to sort out a trailer licence as well so any details on that would be great as well.
Any tips & advice as this wouldn't be the main vehicle used, but I'd like something that's good off road & a good work horse & have seen both in action x
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Can't comment on the above makes, but i have a ford ranger duel cab... i do think some of these 4x4's are fashion cars more than work horses... a friend of mine does have a free lander, but it seems to be in the garage more than on the road, maybe he just picked a dud.....
my ranger does 30+ to the gallon ..not the fastest of things, but does work hard
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Hi SL
I can't comment on 4x4s
But i have towed a trailer, vans etc for years, check the legislation as if your you took your driving test some years ago you may not need a futher towing test.
There was a useful peice on towing in the sheep association's (NSA) magazine from late last year/early this year.
SV
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discoverys are ace tho i would love a landy 110
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I do love discoveries & 1 of my mates is in off-roading clubs & is a specialist mechanic on them & it's amazing how capable machines they are & I like the idea of ford rangers - but at the minute I'm just after a smaller 4X4 due to insurance & fuel costs as i'm 25 but will have had my full licence 2 years this november - so I know I'll have to take a towing test of sorts x
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We have a freelander 2 and a discovery currently and I used to have a Suzuki Vitara. Out of the 3? I'd go with a Disco every time!! I love it ;) Tows brilliantly, fairly good on go-go juice and I feel very safe, much safer than I did in the vitara. The vitara was a pain in the bum when things went wrong, getting parts etc. I know there's a few on here that warned me off the landrovers but actually owning 2 now can't imagine having anything else :fc:
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I am hoping to get a small short wheel base 4x4 soon too..we are always off road,its a daily thing and I do not go too long distances......so I am interested also in what people say :thumbsup:
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Yeah I appreciate that with the bigger 4x4s & would love 1 but it's not practical unless I want to use it a lot x
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I adore Landys - give me a Disco 2 anytime :thumbsup:
Though IMPE I'd avoid any 4x4 that's been in Scotland for any amount of time - we went through 4 in 4 years & every one went due to bad corrosion :(
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I was told that Rav 4's are quite good and they are small ish aren't they? I also like defenders :love:
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For off road and farm work we had an old Vitara with a set of offroad tyres on and it was brilliant. Would do anything we wanted it to and would never get stuck. Towing wise it would be useless though. Best vehicle for towing we have ever had was a Fourtrak which would tow anything and legally. Why they stopped making them I will never know. There are still a few good ones about but a lot of them are at the age where they need welding work. Brilliant workhorse vehicle. For any sort of horsebox towing now you want a Disco, Defender or a big pick up/4x4. With size comes reduced economy though. When we were looking we used Auto Trader website. If you search for the model you want and click on a car of that type you can get performance information with fuel economy and under dimensions it tells you kerb weight, gross weight and towing capacity which is what you need to know. For towing small trailers Skoda Yetis are good and very economical but are still a newish vehicle and as such are expensive. We also quite liked the diesel Santa Fe as value for money. Remember the gross weight of the trailer cannot exceed the capacity of your vehicle. Regardless of whether you ever tow that weight so for a horsebox like an Ifor 505 or 506 you want minimum of 2400kg or 2600kg towing capacity.
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Noticed on my BT internet page, there was an article that listed cars that hold their value, one was the Skoda Yetis, wish I could afford one!
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Also have a Ford Ranger twin cab J&H - yay - it was the best thing we've ever bought, like EVER! Just renewed insurance - I am 35 with older named driver, been driving since 17 and 5 yrs no claims and the best I could do on a commercial policy was £400.
It was up in the field this week unloading/loading pigs and has been a Godsend as we have no quad (yet). We have a 6x4 livestock trailer and a 5x8 Ifor Williams job - the truck can tow both fully laden have towed livestock, mini diggers, dumper trucks, trailer full of our stuff across Europe twice in a month - you name it it has coped. Fuel econ isn't bad did a 360 mile round trip last week on a tank, £80 ish to fill. It's a 57 plate apparently that's when a new engine was being rolled out and that's made it perform a lot better than older models. Sailed thru it's MOT every year, inc today, still got the original rear tyres on with 60k on the clock. Max towing is about 2700kg, the bigger trailer is the same total max weight so both compatible. It drives better when loaded IMO, all round great vehicle
I also have a Range Rover P38, sitting off road ATM because it was too expensive to tax and insure and not get much use, but that will tow a good 1000 kg more than the Ranger, so it may need to be back on the road soon...they are fraught with electrical problems but I love mine, 4.6 petrol monster!
Speaking to a bloke today who reckons Defenders are going up in value, new ones are too complicated, stick to older ones...think we've missed the boat there!
Freelanders - looked at them too, watch for transmission probs apparently because it's permanently in 4wd or something, it can be disengaged...? Also the petrol engines were dodgy, made by Rover, the diesels were built by BMW and far more reliable. Some of that may be wrong, it's just from memory but I found out loads on the forums when we were looking for a Rover, loads of good tips.
What was the pick up on Top Gear that just wouldn't die, toyota, Hi-lux? That seems like a good bet!
You could always get a cheap 4x4 that's an MOT failure and just use it on the land to start with, get used to towing etc? And for the minimum miles you're allowed to go off with a farm vehicle, check insurance etc. Or what about just a quad?
Something like the little almost wanna be jeeps/suzuki Jimny springs to mind or the likes. They should be reasonable to buy, have some towing capability and are small enough to make insurance feasible - I'd try a few insurance comparison websites and some of the ad sites to gauge prices...
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We had an old Range Rover - a 'Classic' - cost less than £5K, bought when it was about 9 years old - converted to run on LPG - but still expensive to run - sub 20 MPG. It was a great car to drive, and very capable off road, but it became unreliable - every car journey required a set of tools, 5 litres of water and a can of oil in the back.
We changed it for a Toyota Rav4 - very good road car, tows our cattle trailer fine, 40+ MPG, cheap insurance (but then we've both been driving over 20 years), comfortable drive and reliable.
When I worked for a medical equipment company, I had a company car that needed towing home one day - long story - the VW dealer had done something stupid with the service that meant the car leaked out all of the engine oil - on the long journey home I chatted to the recovery driver about the cars he got to recover. His opinion - avoid Land Rover cars as he'd towed more of those than any other 4*4 type - Japanese cars are reliable - Toyota or Daihatsu were OK.
We're happy with our Rav4.
Sue
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If you want to tow horses then you need a 3.5tonne capacity and a Discovery or similar. The Freelanders and other leisure 4x4s do not have the capacity and are illegal when towing a standard 2 horse box, though it's common to see them with just one horse loaded rather than 2 as if actual loaded weight made it legal because it can move.
I can't speak for the farm work you want but again I reckon the ones that were primarily brought out for the leisure market and suburban mums wouldn't do the job in mud in the winter like an old Defender, in which wind whistling through the clunky cab is a feature but worth it for the actual work it'll do.
A lot of farmers and horseowners now go the pickup route and swear by them - just watch if you don't have enough weight at the back of a pickup it tows badly but properly balanced they are the new luxury workhorse the Disco used to be. Before Landrover got turned into just another high priced luxury item with electronics that die and cost thousands to fix..
I have a Disco II (2002). I drove a Disco3 where the shape changed and the gadgetry went through the roof and I didn't like it or the subsequent upgrades. To me they're wrecking the brand now so once this has had it I'll be going the pickup route. Toyota are the best but pricy, the Mitsu L200 was the farmer's choice last I checked but some did have problems, I didn't get so far as finding out more because for now my Disco is irreplaceable, I had an old 200 before it that was even better, the parts came in pieces rather than units so you could replace just the broken bit not the whole thing, but I messed up and let a scrappie take it when I couldn't afford the repair bill and it was sitting at my mechanic's making me feel bad :(
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Just having a quick look at the rules on towing, as I thought this may be helpful, and the way I read it you don't need an extra test if the stated unladen weight of the vehicle and the plated laden weight of the trailer do not exceed 3.5 tonnes, and the unladen weight of the vehicle exceeds that of the trailer! So a Discovery with a smallish cattle trailer may actually comply! defiently a pig/sheep trailer will be fine! I tow a small pig trailer with a big Merc estate and was a little unsure of the legality of it, but now have the warm fuzzy feeling that I was fine all along! This is relevent to the post as it may effect the choice of vehicle as a larger motor may be better!
Licences held from 1 January 1997
If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:
a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500 kilograms (kg) Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (with a combined weight of up to 4,250kg in total)
a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)
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If I recall correctly you do have to have a certificate to transport livestock over a certain distance though dont' you? is it 80km or something!?
The new freelander 2 doesn't come with towbar as standard, I think that says it all really ;) When we bought our disco the man who sold it to us (a huge landie enthusiast with a collection of every type!) said "think of the freelander as a luxury car, think of your disco as a posh tractor..." about right ;D
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If I recall correctly you do have to have a certificate to transport livestock over a certain distance though dont' you? is it 80km or something!?
agggh Plums don't start that one again .... the rule is ONLY needed if you move animals as part of a commercial business........ so going to collect a couple of weaners to rear on your holding or a new pet goat ............NO...... buying and selling animals as part of buisness... YES.
Ps another vote for Ford Ranger, our 2nd one, pulls like a train, great off road, bit thirsty towing and no probs reversing now i have sensors :-[ :innocent: :roflanim: !
Sadly i am old enuff to have grand mother rights as regards reversing trailers :relief:
mandy :pig:
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Fowgill is correct, the certificate is only needed for commercial use.
Welfare rules still apply, but not the certificates etc for private use.
One Interesting point re loading of trailers, this was a confusing area with people thinking they couldn't tow a trailer with a theoretical max capacity that would be above their vehicles limit even tho they never loaded it that much (and police were trying to say that too) , so people were downplating trailers to match the vehicle towing. VOSA has now clarified the position a while back. If you passed your test pre 1997 there is NO problem towing a trailer with a max weight capacity above that of the vehicle towing it, and it does not need downplating. All that matters is (as common sense and reason would dictate) is that your licence allows you to tow the actual weight you are towing (post 97 licences would need a trailer test for this, pre 97 is fine up to 3.5t). And that the weight of the trailer and loaded horse etc doesnt exceed the train weight of the vehicle (which is the point ellied was addressing).
Really if you are towing with anything less than a Landy or similarly giant monster, you are likely only to be able to legally tow a trailer with a horse in if it is a single horse trailer eg Ifor 403 and towed by a certain make and model, eg a Nissan Xtrail could tow a 403 with a single horse in it, but many other SUVs cannot. Double horse trailer will certainly need a Landy, shogun etc for towing it loaded. Post 97 licences will need a trailer test too.
To give you confidence about the rules see the excellent official guide for horsebox and trailer owners published by VOSAhttp://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Horsebox%20Guide%20low%20res.pdf
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how did you get on with your new discovery plums?
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I've got to vote for the Ford Ranger too. We use them at work and they get a hell of alot of abuse and still keep going. My dad changed from a Nissan Navara to a Ranger and he much prefers the Ranger. They are much better on fuel than the Mitsi L200 and a much better, more spacious vehicle altogether. You can pick up L200's quite cheaply but that's because they're crap! Some of our Rangers at work look like the Hilux off Top Gear but they still keep running!
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You can pick up L200's quite cheaply but that's because they're crap!
i think they changed country of manufacture, since the move the gaskits go quite often, but the earlier models are ok.
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how did you get on with your new discovery plums?
Absolutely LOVE it!!! considering the freelander is less than a year old, the disco has taken over in my affections as 'my' car ;D and its an old workhorse but I don't care!
If I recall correctly you do have to have a certificate to transport livestock over a certain distance though dont' you? is it 80km or something!?
agggh Plums don't start that one again .... the rule is ONLY needed if you move animals as part of a commercial business........ so going to collect a couple of weaners to rear on your holding or a new pet goat ............NO...... buying and selling animals as part of buisness... YES.
haha! sorry Mandy! It was just something I half heard at a goat meeting, I'll be honest...I wasn't listening 100% as I have no intention of ever driving too far with goats anyway, I was probably imagining Robbie williams half naked or something instead at the time :innocent:
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If you can find an old Diahatsu Fourtrack, they are ticketed for 3.5 tonnes and usually cheap to buy/easy enough to repair.
I have a Defender and personally, I dont think you can fault them - apart from the fact they are slow. Parts are dirt cheap, easy to repair even if you are not a mechanic, peanuts to insure....
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I just love my Cr-V. It's not as flashy as other 4x4s, does use less petrol as it switches to 4x4 when it needs to but it does all it needs to do :&>
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Just to add - some of the options seem to have a different definition of 'cheap' from me... ;D
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depends if you want a new or used one, of course ;)
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Theres no way I could afford new car prices at present & to be honest new cars loose too much value, so I'd always prefer a 2nd hand 1 at present all I want is a 4x4 that is handy to feed livestock & deal with off roading & snow that'll tow a small garden trailer & sheep & pig trailer that'll hold a couple of ewes or lambs - I won't be doing any heavy duty towing for a while yet plus I don't think I have enough experience to handle moving some of the massive 4x4s u lot have been talking about & some of the 1s your on about are way too pricey I'm only looking to spend £1500 give or take. This is why I'm on about SMALL 4x4s x
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well, the Honda Cr-v isn't big and now it would be a good time to look as most folks want to buy them before the snow hits. if this model is of interest to you make sure you look for the "intelligent 4x4". :&>
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I don't think I have enough experience to handle moving some of the massive 4x4s u lot have been talking about & some of the 1s your on about are way too pricey I'm only looking to spend £1500 give or take. This is why I'm on about SMALL 4x4s x
the discovery is perfect for farms and towing. its also VERY easy to drive, it feels safe and is really easy to park in the town etc as you can see all 4 corners ;D unlike my seat where its like driving blind. i prefer driving a disco to a L200. you can also get one for your price range, just watch for dodgy gaskits.
Fuel wise its no more expensive to run than my Seat MPV.
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Theres no way I could afford new car prices at present & to be honest new cars loose too much value, so I'd always prefer a 2nd hand 1 at present all I want is a 4x4 that is handy to feed livestock & deal with off roading & snow that'll tow a small garden trailer & sheep & pig trailer that'll hold a couple of ewes or lambs - I won't be doing any heavy duty towing for a while yet plus I don't think I have enough experience to handle moving some of the massive 4x4s u lot have been talking about & some of the 1s your on about are way too pricey I'm only looking to spend £1500 give or take. This is why I'm on about SMALL 4x4s x
Old fourtrack - you can pick one up for x hundred quid as opposed to thousands - its just finding one. The Community farm I help on has a cracker that cost them £200...
Edited to add - its not quite £200(Sadly), but this is probably worth a look at: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201307037622808/sort/default/usedcars/model/fourtrak/make/daihatsu/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/postcode/sy81sd/quicksearch/true/page/1/radius/100?logcode=p (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201307037622808/sort/default/usedcars/model/fourtrak/make/daihatsu/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/postcode/sy81sd/quicksearch/true/page/1/radius/100?logcode=p)
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I have no experience of 4 x 4s but will post this and probably be laughed at. :roflanim:
As you want something small, and the disco's are out. How about the old Lada Niva? They can be picked up cheap.
Not sure on the towing capacity etc. With a 1600 engine it should be cheap on insurance. :)
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A Lada Niva would do me fine, cannot afford the Landrover Defender, well not one that's not going to need loads of TLC.......thanks for jogging my memory, although its not my thread, we are going to be getting another car very soon and that's the sort of thing we want! :thumbsup:
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hi - my partner has got a disco series 1 - dirt cheap and rusty but passed its mot no problem, I have a suzuki vitara soft top 1.6 petrol 18 years old, it's fun but disappointing mpg at about 35, i have removed the back seats so can get a fair bit in the back, it tows our 6x4 livestock trailer ok with a couple of pigs in it. insurance isn't as good as you would think though - i'm late 30s with full ncd and still £30 odd a month. tried to get my 17 year old son on but they wouldn't insure it until he was 19 and been driving a year ??? daft as i had a fabia vrs with too many horses under the bonnet and that was cheaper! i would say get an old 200 tdi discovery, cheap as chips and you won't care if you dent it or fill with mud!
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iv been using most 4/4s range rover pajaro show gun maverick nisan patrol but i have to say the cheaper the better 1.200 pound not much you think but dis go diesel auto or Manuel can be bought but you have to travel next Volvo 2.5 diesel or auto some have the WV engine naw insurance 28 disgo 25 Volvo naw mpg run to carlile 200 miles run 48 mpg Volvo disgo best 28 mpg best ride out of the lot Volvo lots for sale .
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THis thread really interests me as we are after a cheap 4x4 that can tow yet but economical on petrol etc, I keep seeing the big 7 seater Discos and wonder if they are any less economical as the freelanders with 3 doors? We saw a lovely Vauxhall Frontera but it appears to be bad on fuel but cheap on parts and good at towing......anyway....we actually want a car that is good off road due to our forest licence and that can pull logs and carry dogs!!! yet not drink petrol like I drink Whiskey
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Sandy, we have both an old 7 seat disco and a brand new freelander, I don't think the disco is much thirstier than the new one at all but will check with Tony see what his evaluation is. Given the choice, both of us tend to grab the disco keys before the freelander - proof that the old classic is more fun to drive than the new luxury job ;) It was very affordable too and I think a lot of older discos are, yes things go wrong but they are generally easy and cheap to mend unlike some of the foreign imports I guess. I found that people who said "eww, I'd never have a landrover..." were people who'd never even driven a landrover (my husbands uncle for a start...) and weren't basing their comments on experience, just on ignorance (this isn't aimed at anyone posting on here btw! I'm just hacked off with my husband and his unvle...guitars etc...not in this heat..doing my head in ;D )
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Thanks, the common like on this thread is the Disco........ ??? , we however could buy a 2004 freelander for £1,500 with a Diesel engine.....now I shall look at some big ones THANKS...I still have not showerd, bloody car hunting :innocent:
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Can't fault my trooper 3.1
£800-£1500 typically around L M N reg
Bit cheaper than disco I think and less rust probs
Even runs off used veg oil
Most people say the newer 3liter diesel isn't as good.
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I have five landys at the moment
Disco 300 is ok but watch out for rusty sills, inner wings and boot floor
Disco TD5 is ok but big and heavy... drinks fuel and mine got nicked
Freelander 2.0 diesel is a good old bus... engine lasts for ever and rust is not a problem but the transmission can be
Freelander TD4 is ok but has the same transmission problems with the IRD and viscous coupling
Deffender... I have three. They will do anything and you can take the roof off in summer (the V8 is thirsty though)
Isuzu Trooper 3.0 pulls like a train.... then it goes bang
Isuzu Trooper 3.1 is better but expensive to repair
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Just bought a good ex council Freelander Van with a dog patrol light and wheel cover..just made for us and our dogs!!! and cheap to insure and buy!!
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The Lada Niva was a good wee car. I had one, the Cossack version with go faster stripes (which didn't work), and really liked it. Certainly it was very capable off road but has very limited load space. I now have a Ranger dual cab and can't see how I managed without it; with Goodrich all terrain tyres and a Gamic top it does everything we need on the smallholding. It only does 32 to the gallon but then there are worse beasts
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Just bought a good ex council Freelander Van with a dog patrol light and wheel cover..just made for us and our dogs!!! and cheap to insure and buy!!
id love a landy with the hardtop pickup at the back - with the metal grill door so my dogs can sit in there. perfect
:love:
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I have a bit of a bucket list and although a Landrover Defender was more the type of car I am also realistic and know I would need to spend a bit more money as I cannot afford a newer model, however a Landrover of any kind is good enough, we both are chuffed to bits....we do not usually or often drive long distances but go daily to the forest off road even friends around the area live off road.....so, for now (until it goes wrong) we are happy, one issue is the central locking, we have no manual and the key fob is worn so I press it randomly and frantly to lock the doors with all sorts of flashes and noises HELP!!!
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You can pick up L200's quite cheaply but that's because they're crap!
i think they changed country of manufacture, since the move the gaskits go quite often, but the earlier models are ok.
The old ones have the 4M40 engines in them, the same that went in the Pajero/Shoguns and L400 Delica. They go on for ever and ever, and the L400 is an awesome vehicle :innocent:
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Just bought a good ex council Freelander Van with a dog patrol light and wheel cover..just made for us and our dogs!!! and cheap to insure and buy!!
Can I be nosey, Sandy, and ask where you found it? I saw it when I passed the other day and thought it looked great. I just don't know where to look for this sort of thing. There's a guy beside me who has landies at his door - 3 I think, sometimes more; but it's always the same ones so I think he just plays at repairing them rather than them being for sale.
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Just looked on Gumtree, I find the man near you has the same taste as me as he used to also have VW, the trouble is the Landy I would like would cost too much to run and repair but this one has turned out to be fantastic, insurance cheaper, tax the same and the fuel consumption less and the dogs purpose built van, that's so spacy and wonderful!