The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Cattle => Topic started by: Rosemary on June 14, 2013, 12:44:05 pm
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Charlie seems a bit slow. He was born between 3am and 7am. I latched him on at 7.30ish and he had a wee suck but nothing much. Tried him again later and he wasn't interested. NOW, he may be suckling when I'm not around; his belly doesn't feel empty and he's passed the meconium (the black poo) and he's had a "normal" poo.
I seem to recall Annie was abit dozy last year, so maybe it's a family thing ???
I called the vet and on his advice, I milked 500ml of colostrum off Blizz and put it in a bottle but he wasn't interested. I don't have a calf tube (note for next year :( ). Just called out the vet - I'd rather he came and said he's fine and I'm worrying unnecessarily than finding the calf dead in the field :(
I'll try him again with the bottle in half an hour.
On the plus side, Blizz was quite happy to let me milk her - two kicks, then she stood fine.
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Fingers crossed he's just a little slow off the mark and vet gives the thumbs up. Best of luck with him.
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:fc: He's okay, maybe just being a typical man :sofa: ;) ;D I'll send some reiki for him too :)
Great news about the milking though :thumbsup: :excited: :excited: :excited:
I'm getting quite proficent at goat milking now and 'Wee Molly' seemes to have sprouted on the good grass so I might not have to wait that long to be milking her (though when I tried touching her belly last week she didn't like it :o ::))
Keep us posted on the wee man :hug:
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Vet has been. Temperature fine, breathing fine, no burbly chest, no neurological damage, gut fine, no watery mouth, droppings fine. Seems he might have a headache :(
He could have been squeezed or knocked during the birth process. He DID look slightly punchdrunk. Anyway, he's had an antibiotic just in case, a vitamin injection to give him a wee boost and a steroid anti-inflammatory injection (Charlie didn't like that :o ). He's had another litre of colostrum by tube - he sucked about 400ml from a bottle before the vet arrived.
We've to get him up and sucking at 6pm and two hourly after that, and hopefully he'll be fine in the morning. Just hope his immunity isn't too compromised.
Lesson learned though - any calf not harassing its mother from the word go needs attention. No wait an see. :fc: that Charlie won't suffer from my tardy action :(
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All of our bull calves have been dozy which ever mum produces them- much less bouncy than the little heifers.
Not sure why, some of them have had no idea about where to suck - they try the neck, that nice soft lump between the front legs, along the tummy...You name it, anywhere but the place they'll actually get milk. The heifers get it right, the bulls don't.
The bulls spend a couple of days being quiet and sleepy, then, bang, they're off and there's no stopping them.
Hopefully Charlie will feel better soon - you've done everything to help him get a good start.
Sue
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Some calves are just as you describe - a bit dopey, not seeming hungry but never seen suckling.
There's a product called Life-Gard, which is a tube of colostrum paste. You can give this to any calf where you have concerns about it getting enough colostrum quickly enough - for instance, where the mother is a first-timer, or a case such as your Charlie. As with lambs, colostrum in the belly is a great stimulant.
The other tip is to only use bulls who leave lively, up-and-at'em calves. I realise that this one may be hard to manage with such a rare breed. :thinking:
It sounds from your description as though Charlie should be fine. I'll keep my fingers crossed for him - and you.
And well done on milking Blizzard! :thumbsup:
Oh - and get a calf tube now. If they get scour or bloat, you'll use one; it's not just for non-suckling newborns.
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Thanks all.
Went out to feed him at 6 and when he got up, encouraged by me, he had a good stretch, which he hasn't done before. He had a good feed but faceplanted a couple of times and seemed a bit disorientated. At one point, it looked like he had a wee seizure.
I phoned the vet (they must be fed up with me) and he said that Charlie was probably a dummy calf, either squeezed or oxygen deprived at birth so probably slightly brain damaged :(
So, all we can do is keep making him feed every two hours and hope that he can overcome his difficulties. His mummy loves him and licks and talks to him, so :fc: that he makes it.
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I've certainly had lambs like that, who have picked up and been fine.
Good thing that his mummy loves him and is doing the right thing - fingers crossed he's fine :fc:
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we had a dummy foal born 2 years ago unfortunatley he didnt survive even with blood transfusions, its not a nice thing to see but they do say if they produce one dummy they very rarely produce another somthing like a 1% of it happening again, ours was that he was born to quick, but :fc: for your little calf if he pulls throuhg he sure is a fighter
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Well, he managed to latch on and feed himself at 9.30pm. He's a bit more aware too. He looks like a newborn not a calf 14 hours old.
Bonny, on the otherhand, is running her mother ragged. She was careering about the field tonight with her tail straight in the air, with Annie for company, and with Breeze galloping behind mooing anxiously.
Hopefully, Charlie will be doing the same soon :fc:
We're out again at 11.30 then 3.30am :)
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I can just picture Bonny charging round the field ;D
If Charlie is latching on himself, and looking more alert, that's moving in the right direction. Keep going little Charlie :thumbsup:
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That sounds better - sounds like he's coming on a bit.
Adam was slow - he had to jacked by the vet as his poor mum had been straining for too long. He was a large calf for a first timer. Adam took a while to be bouncy, but he did join in with the wacky races once he was more alert. He turned out just fine (great tasting too).
Hope Charlie continues making progress.
Sue
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I love that tail-up four-legged bouncy run young calves do. :love: :cow:
Come on Charlie, you can do it - we're all rooting for you!
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Do hope he keeps improving, maybe he had a long birth and is a bit sore.
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He fed well at 11pm and really well at 3am - we just got him up and he latched on himself. Was even butting his mum.
No so chirpy at 6.30am. I mean he's fine just not as active. Going to have breakfast and try him again.
Thanks for all your good wishes - I'm passing them on to him :thumbsup:
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No so chirpy at 6.30am.
Thinks Charlie ' There I was, having a good kip, dreaming about grass and chasing butterflies, when these funny looking beasties with 2 legs came and woke me up again and made me have more of that warm stuff from Mum, when all I really wanted to do was sleep'.
Still sounds like he's making progress, good luck with the rest of today.
Sue
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come on Charlie :fc:
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:fc: Hope he continues to improve!!
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Still not interested in sucking - and he's stronger than yesterday ::)
Called the vet re tubing him - vet says to leave it until after lunchtime. If we tube, it reduces the liklihood of him sucking, which is true but I'm worried about him starving.
Aaargh! Maybe I should stick to growing veggies.
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Stop torturing yourself :hug:
He's had a feed during the night (so knows what to do and how to do it) and he won't starve - I guarentee it ;)
More reiki on the way (for all of you :innocent:)
I'd hang off for a bit too before tubing again - he's got to feel hungry to want to suckle :fc:
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Agree with HappyHippy.
He had milk at 11 and 3 -and he was sumping at 3. ()Not sure if that's the right term - it's the banging the udder with your head till Mum lets down the milk
He's stronger than yesterday - must be getting some nourishment then.
He's probably getting milk when he wants it - the rest of the time he wants to sleep and convert that nice warm milk into growing juice. By day 3-4 he should be running around like a loony.
Is he peeing & pooing? - I always take that as a good sign that they're getting milk - no input, no output.
Do some of Blizzards teats look shiny and is she generally happy - not demanding Charlie come & have a drinkie. If our mums think it's time for junior to feed as the udder is getting full, they certainly let the calf (and the entire glen) know about it.
Hopefully Charlie will be hungry later and have a good slurp.
Take care
Sue
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Fingers crossed for the little fella x :fc:
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I keep logging in to check on Charlie :fc: :fc: :fc: all the best xx time moves so slowly when you are watching an animal
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Well, he is peeing (copiously) and pooing and he had a feed at noon, although we had to get him up, so glad we didn't tube him.
He was in the field shelter overnight but it's a nice day so we "encouraged" him to go out in the field, so Blizz could graze. He's walking better and even tried a few skips. He lay down again but Blizz licked and licked him until he stood up - that's the first time we've seen him stand without us "encouraging" him.
Last time I looked he was sound asleep in the long grass.
Dan's offered to put a camera up so that I can watch him 24/7.
Really appreciate all your support and encouragement :thumbsup:
Just looked out - Charlie is feeding from his mum all by himself. Hopefully, he's on his way now :thumbsup:
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Good stuff :thumbsup:
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Sounding good :thumbsup:
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It sounds a tense 24 hours. Glad Charlie is looking good now :thumbsup:
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Just looked out - Charlie is feeding from his mum all by himself.
Well done Charlie.
The camera is a good idea - it's good to have a technical support team on hand ;D
Steve put an IP camera in the cattle shed and connected it via the electric socket supply to the network. We could watch the cows from the house & see any odd behaviour without going up to the yard. Helped a bit with the fretting about if they were OK - if they're all laying down or just cudding then no-one's about to 'pop'.
Sounds like Charlie is settling in fine which is great news.
It that it for this year, or do you have any more still cooking?
Sue
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Oh dear, I wrote the other post before seeing this one. :fc:for Charlie. I know what it is like with the worrying but it sounds like everything possible has been done and he is in the most capable hands.
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Just seen this ....do hope Charlie has turned the corner now - he certainly sounds like he is much improved. Its such a worry when anything newborn does not suck, but sometimes they seem a bit slow to cotton on, but once they do, thats it.
Sending lots of good vibes for Charlie :fc:
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Well, not so worried about Charlie this morning. :relief:
Found him laid up by his mum in the corner of the field at 7am; made him get up (he must hate me - although not enough to get up when he sees me. Yet.). He had a feed, an enormously long pee (it went on and on and on), then a poo (bright yellow and firm - OMG what has my life come to?).
He now has a normal blink response - yesterday if you waved your hand in his face there was no response now he blinks and moves his head away. And he managed to have a wee skippy gallop :thumbsup:
So hopefully, he's on the mend - at least enough to be viable. After all, he doesn't have to perform brain surgery.
I've loads of photos on my phone but have no idea how to get them from there to here but I will post a few pics later.
Really appreciate all the positive vibes :thumbsup:
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Thats really good news Rosemary. Lets hope he continues in leaps and bounds. :thumbsup: for Charlie
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Sounds fine, he's probably over the worst bit now - wee skippy gallop is good - he'll be playing with his new herd sister before you know it.
It's amazing how obsessed we can get over them - pouring over small piles of poo, watching for a good stream of wee, making sure their ears are warm (for the earlier calves), checking for a full belly - the list is endless. The there's the Mum checks...
Hope you have a more relaxing day today and enjoy the glorious sunshine.
Sue
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That does sound good :thumbsup: Hopefully he's just been a slow starter - the blink response now sounds very positive.
Yes, he doesn't have to be able to do quadratic equations, as long as he's ok, bless him :love:
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Weeing and nice yellow poo - :thumbsup: Charlie. Well done Rosemary :hug:
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Little bugger kicked me tonight. I was moving them into a fresh paddock; all moved but Charlie. Blizz and I found him laid up under the trees - usual routine, got him up, he had a feed, a looooong wee and a poo (he seems to go into a trance when weeing / pooing ::) - is that a boy thing?). Then he took off down the field and I couldn't catch him!!! Then he kicked me - made contact too.
After all I've done for him :innocent:
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Talk about ungrateful - still I guess you'll get the ultimate revenge in about 30 months :innocent:
So glad he's getting on, I'm sure it's a great relief.
Sue
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Sounds like he has turned the corner thank goodness, worrying 48 hrs, bet they will be racing round the field together very soon. It's great when you have two youngsters born close together and they tear around the field like little hooligans in the playground. :thumbsup:
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so do you think he was a slow starter or had a difficult birth?
i lost a goat who wouldnt suckle and i never had a stomach tube. also had a worrying time when a foal couldnt find the teat and the mare wouldnt let me close enough to help, she was getting really weak but luckily was fine in the end. its scary at the time tho.
good luck to charlie
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So glad he's doing better :thumbsup:
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so do you think he was a slow starter or had a difficult birth?
I don't know and I don't suppose I ever will. He's quite big for a Shetland but not huge in any breed terms and Shetlands have a good reputation for easy calving. From posts on here, bulls seem to be slower to get going, although that wasn't the case for us last year.
I don't know - with only two calves last year and two this, I don't have a wide experience to call on. Just thankful that he seems to be OK and that I'll have more experience to call on next year.
I was dreadfully worried about Breeze in particular coming out of the winter because I thought she was very thin, but her calf seems fine, better than fine actually :love: and she has plenty millk.
We didn't plan to calve as late as this, but this year it's turned out fine as there's now lots of grass for the cows and they look really well. If they had calved in April as I planned there would have been very little grass for them at a time when they needed it.
Such is smallholding, I suppose :)
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How's Charlie today? - hope he's still doing well.
Sue
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Hope he is doing OK...all males go into a trace while peeing!!
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How's Charlie today? - hope he's still doing well.
Sue
Charlie update - he seems perfectly normal now. He's feeding well and careering around the field. The mums haven't let Bonny and him play together yet but Annie gets in on the act and she's quite rough with her wee bro, but he's quick at getting out of the way now :thumbsup:
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That's really good to hear :thumbsup:
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Very pleased to here he is ok!
Totally sympathise with the poo thing! I am obsessed and was almost neurotic keeping an eye on Dillon's (goat) runny bum!
Helen