The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Rosemary on May 06, 2013, 08:54:59 am
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In an effort to improve the return from the sheep, I thought I might have the eight skins from the tup lambs turned into sheepskins this year.
Just had a quote of £60 per skin to tan them. If I add the cost of salting them and posting them, plus whatever attitude the abattoir takes...
Had a look on the interweb and rare breed coloured skins are selling for about £55 - £70.
How do I square that particular circle?
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Watching with interest... :thinking:
With Ryelands, would they have enough fleece at slaughtertime to clip them before slaughter, and sell the fleece as lambs' fleece? If so, I'd have thought you would make a profit doing that - I'd certainly buy one off you if there's enough staple for my meagre fleece prep skills ;) :) :knit: :knit: :spin:
(I keep putting :spin: into posts in the increasingly vain hope that eventually there will be a :spin: emotiwotsit... :fc:)
ETA assuming the tup lambs haven't become stinky boys by this time, of course...
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Rosemary, I have thoughts of doing the same with my tup lambs. I knew it was expensive but didn't think it cost quite that much.
I was only planning on keeping mine for myself though it sounds a bit macabre having names for my sheepskin rugs, Taffy and Tomos :roflanim:
Surely if they were clipped they wouldn't make such good rugs?
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Surely if they were clipped they wouldn't make such good rugs?
Defo - I meant instead . Much cheaper to clip, sell fleece to handspinners :knit: :spin: or use yourself if you spin :knit: :spin: = profit.
But if you want sheepskin, yes, don't clip.
My CM fleeces skins from last year are finally dried out ::) and I am contemplating shearing the fibre off them rather than getting them processed as sheepskins.
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Where on earth are they asking £60 per skin. Try somewhere else.
Hey Sally :yippee: :yippee: :santa: :spin: :yippee:
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Mine are due back from the tannery this month - I'll let you know how they turn out. If I send on some boys this month, will the skins be suitable for tanning :-\ or will the old fleece break away? Any knowledge anyone please? Ta.
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No point trying to tan the skin if sheep were shorn last year. Only try and tan if the sheep were shorn in the same year, and they should be away by November (?)... there is a thread on here about it, was a while ago...
We bought a beautiful multi-coloured sheepskin on Shetland last summer (at Cunningsburgh show) for (I think) 60 pounds or thereabouts, they were home-tanned. Very nice, but they have now travelled to Germany... :( , I am thinking of getting some of mine done this year.
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I tried to deal with my own sheepskins a couple of years ago. Fortunately it was one of the others in the group who went to the abattoir and had the task of asking if she could have "four skins" back! Anyway, long story short, it was so difficult that they ended up in the bin.
Rosemary, it probably comes down to ecconomies of scale - if you have a lot done as the commercial sellers of sheepskins would, it is probably a lot cheaper.
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When Fenland Sheepskins was on the go, they charged less than £20. OK it was a while ago, but inflation hasn't been that much. It was a large tannery, doing private skins out of the main season for commercials, so that will account for some of the lower price but it sounds as if someone is taking advantage of a provider's market :(
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I will shop around and keep you posted :thumbsup:
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I have just had 6 back from Devonia in Devon. No hassle, just asked C&S to send the skins on for me and they appear 4 months later, £210.
Good luck
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Hey Sally :yippee: :yippee: :santa: :spin: :yippee:
Brilliant!!!!! :excited: :knit: :spin: :spin: :knit: :excited: Yippeeee!!!!!
Thank you Dan! :-*
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Do it yourself, it's hugely rewarding.
I've used the "K-tan" kit from here before with good results.
http://www.snowdoniasupplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/catalogue.pl?ref=tanningkits (http://www.snowdoniasupplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/catalogue.pl?ref=tanningkits)
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Why not brain tan them?
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After following the links in Sally's thread about salting sheepskins, it would appear that there are only Devonia and Nicki Port left tanning. If the £60 cost was for an organically done one then I can see how they could charge that much.
There is a commercial tannery somewhere near Perth I think, although I have no idea if they are able to do identifiable small numbers. You could phone the abattoir in Shotts Rosemary for their details as that is who they use.
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After following the links in Sally's thread about salting sheepskins
Duh, yeah, I should ha' posted that here. :dunce:
Here 'tis:
Found an Eblex leaflet on salting sheepskins (http://www.eblex.org.uk/documents/content/returns/brp_l_sheepactionforprofit23-betterreturnsfromsaltingskins.pdf)
If that link stops working, it's (currently) listed on the Better Returns - Sheep Literature page (http://www.eblex.org.uk/returns/Better-returns-sheep.aspx) under 'Action for Profit Sheets'
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Do it yourself, it's hugely rewarding.
I've used the "K-tan" kit from here before with good results.
http://www.snowdoniasupplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/catalogue.pl?ref=tanningkits (http://www.snowdoniasupplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/catalogue.pl?ref=tanningkits)
Thanks for that, have followed link and seen the product - please can you tell us what the process involves?
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Why not brain tan them?
Que? ???
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Why not brain tan them?
Que? ???
http://www.mullerslanefarm.com/braintan.html (http://www.mullerslanefarm.com/braintan.html)
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I think you would struggle to get a sheep brain back from the abattoir in Britain.
We tried it with rabbit skins but without success (probably didn't work it enough)
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I'm sure our sheep have a brain to suit a rabbit !! :sheep: :bunny:
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Nikki Port charged me £35 + postage per lamb skin. Who was it who quoted £60?
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Nicki Port - £35 and Devonia £30ish. Nicki sends you loads of info on salting correctly before sending to her. Not sure if you can post to Devonia
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I'm sure our sheep have a brain to suit a rabbit !! :sheep: :bunny:
:roflanim: :roflanim:
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Why not brain tan them?
The abbatoir is unlikely to let you have the brain (hazardous animal waste and other such nonsense)
The other thing is that brain tanning (at least as I know it) requires the removal of the layer of skin that holds the hair follicles, resulting in a lovely "buckskin" type leather (chamois soft, and velvety and supple).
But most people want sheepskins with wool on.
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Ok so I could probably cook the brain but deffo that blenders going in the bin yuk! :roflanim:
The links are all great though thanks will read them all thoroughly when im not :tired:
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I used Skyeskins last year, had to organise delivery myself but price included return postage about £35 each. Really pleased, great service & product:
www.skyeskyns.co.uk (http://www.skyeskyns.co.uk)
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I used Skyeskins last year, had to organise delivery myself but price included return postage about £35 each. Really pleased, great service & product:
www.skyeskyns.co.uk (http://www.skyeskyns.co.uk)
That's great news birch. I had understood they only processed local skins for their own products. Clive did agree to do some for us (after he bought a tup from us) but we haven't had any to process since then, so haven't tried them.
Their skins are beautiful - they have a stand at the Highland Show, with the most delicious sheepskins to sink into. Well worth asking them, and the price is reasonable. Carriage from anywhere outside the Highlands and Islands could be a major drawback, but what an excuse to pop up to Skye :thinking:
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Do it yourself, it's hugely rewarding.
I've used the "K-tan" kit from here before with good results.
http://www.snowdoniasupplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/catalogue.pl?ref=tanningkits (http://www.snowdoniasupplies.co.uk/cgi-bin/catalogue.pl?ref=tanningkits)
Thanks for that, have followed link and seen the product - please can you tell us what the process involves?
Its been a while, but it's basically a set of different tanning liquids.
I think I:
Salted
rinsed salt off
scraped any fleshy bits of
washed in cold water (used my washing machine...)
then put some magic stuff on
leave for a bit (cannot remember how long for)
then stretch and flex and work it
then add other magic stuff and work it whilst it dries.
seems quite a lot when written (try and write down the steps to making tea..) but it was all quite easy and the results were good.
I did a few lambs that were not to be (about a dozen) and some teeswater ewes that had gone because they were really annoying. The teeswater skins have been rugs for the dogs in our house for about eight years now and have not really felted much (I'd expected them to) and are still supple and soft.
I also did a Dorset down that was in our bathroom (it had about 2" of dense wool) that was the best thing ever for naked feet, soo soft and springy... It fell apart a bit last year (think it was the moisture on the bathroom floor).
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Am I right in thinking you need a form, certificate or to contact Defra before you can get the skins back?
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Am I right in thinking you need a form, certificate or to contact Defra before you can get the skins back?
It tells you all about that for England in the Eblex doc I linked to - not sure if/how the rules would differ in other countries.
Found an Eblex leaflet on salting sheepskins (http://www.eblex.org.uk/documents/content/returns/brp_l_sheepactionforprofit23-betterreturnsfromsaltingskins.pdf)
If that link stops working, it's (currently) listed on the Better Returns - Sheep Literature page (http://www.eblex.org.uk/returns/Better-returns-sheep.aspx) under 'Action for Profit Sheets'
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Thanks i'm in Scotland and have only lighlty researched tanning, I'll catch up on the links here too when I've got a bit more time, but thanks SallyintheNorth this is an interesting thread to follow! :sunshine:
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Fenland ceased trading in March 2011. Devonia use chrome and chemicals, Organic Sheepskins (Nicki Port) uses a bark veg tan, no chemicals. Any DIY needs a license from Defra same as the "big boys" AB 117. Salt petre and alum not an option due to aluminium sulphate banned by EU. Brain tan not an option as brains can't be used due to BSE regulations. Need a commercial document to retrieve skins from the abattoir.
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i tried to do this with sheepskins 5 yrs ago when bluetongue was around but i wasnt allowed.
how exactly do you do it in scotland? do you have to wait at abattoir for the skins, take home, salt and post?
does your premises need to be licensed to handle raw skin?
id be interested as i gave up at the time but was really keen to do it. id like some goat / cattle skins actually.
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I spoke to Nicki Port at the Royal Welsh Spring Festival. she said get the skins home and put salt on them to drain the moisture away. You might need to do this a couple of times. Then double bag them in bin bags and then in a box and write on the outside, something like, animal waste (can't remember the exact wording) then post them off.
You need a doc from Animal Health to get the skins back from the abattoir. Attached is the doc that AH Wales sent me. In Scotland yours is likely to be different but this just gives you an idea,
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i tried to do this with sheepskins 5 yrs ago when bluetongue was around but i wasnt allowed.
how exactly do you do it in scotland? do you have to wait at abattoir for the skins, take home, salt and post?
does your premises need to be licensed to handle raw skin?
id be interested as i gave up at the time but was really keen to do it. id like some goat / cattle skins actually.
Depends how far from the abattoir you live. We go home, having asked what time they will be killed, then pop back as they are going through. This means the skins are freshly removed so we can get home to get salt on within the recommended 2 hours. The longer you leave them before putting salt on the more chance there is of wool slip during the tanning process.
You need to collect them in tied bin bags or other secure containers. When you get them home they must be salted somewhere none of your livestock can reach them, with a separate entrance.
I spread mine out, skin up, on a large board (plywood covered in sheets of polythene. Usually the board is balanced on a zigzag of hurdles, although the drips of salty fluid do tend to react with the metal. I kit myself up in big rubber gloves and a waterproof pinny, plus of course a 25kg sack of vacuum packed salt from the agric merchant.
Remove by scraping any stray bits of flesh from the skin, spread the salt in a layer thick enough that you can't see pink through it, rubbing it in thoroughly right into the corners, and unroll any rolled bits. Open up the legs and tail and remove the purse from entire males. Skins can be stacked three or four high, fleece down, skin up. Cover loosely with polythene (keeps off rodents and helps keep out atmospheric moisture). Leave to drip over the edge onto straw or similar which can be burnt afterwards.
Whenever pink shows through, add more salt on top. How long this takes depends on the outside temp and humidity, but I have found somewhere between one and three weeks. At the end of that time shake off all the salt, then rub in a thin layer. Roll the skins tightly, with skin side to skin side, double bag in heavy duty polythene sacks such as feed sacks, then send off.
By removing as much liquid as you can, then shaking off the wet salt, you are making the parcel as light as possible for carriage costs.
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I believe there are other methods besides brain such as egg and soap and oil? May be talking from my posterior though ;D
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We've just home slaughtered our first lamb, and as he was our first, I don't want to waste a thing!
Hence the offal sitting in the fridge for haggis, the stomachs soaking in brine for tripe for the dog, and am working the sheepskin into a lovely rug :fc:
I researched quite a bit before the day, so as to be ready. Bushcraft.co.uk has quite a few discussions on tanning, mostly deerskins, but certainly sheep too.
They have recipes for chemical tanning, brain tanning or using eggs (quite useful for smallholders I'd have thought!)
I'm going for the brain tanning since it was home slaughter and available.
Currently I'm fleshing the skin today - using a blunt axe while the skin is stretched in the frame, it seems to be working well, with a sharp knife for the odd stubborn bit.
My next step will be working in the brain for tanning, and it looks like it's perfectly fine to do it from the one side so as to leave fleece on.
Then it needs working, stretching and rubbing the brain in for a long time until the entire hide is dry, soft and supple.
Then it will be smoked so as to retain the suppleness, and finally washed to take out the smoke and dirt.
:fc: it's worth it, as this is supposed to be my week of holidays lol
Will post pictures as I go along.
Suzanne
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The difference between Devonia and Organic sheepskins is chemicals. Devonia use chrome which is an environmental disaster and Organic sheepskins don't use chemicals but a bark extract. I did the research and asked the questions. I don't want chemicals in my sheepskins, do you, do your family or customers?. Chrome is quick, cheap and easy the bark extract that Organic Sheepskins use takes 3 times longer to tan. That is why it costs more, but not much, ask Nicki, I did. They are worth a LOT more.
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loving the skyeskyns website - especially the mosaic rugs, hot water bottle covers and Jacob cushions :excited:
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jus to add some things about that whole business with Organic Sheepskins:\
We have been very happy with them, for years we've been sending our skins down south.
--It only works with the skins of young lambs, after december its too late.
-- to get it back from SCOTTISH Abbatoir, you need to send this document [size=78%]http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/files/form-ab117.pdf (http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/files/form-ab117.pdf)[/size] [/size]to AHVLA, ge it back, pass it to the abbtoir and then you can get your skins back.[size=78%]
[/size]--salting is easy, even I manage that by now,[size=78%]
[/size]--sending them, each in a bin liner, airtight, I put 5-6 in one parcel[size=78%]
[/size]-- getting asked to pay[size=78%]
[/size]--pay[size=78%]
[/size]--receive skins.[size=78%][/size]If I send in 5 or six skins, it works out for rougly 42-44pounds each.-- in our farmshop they are sold for a lot more.hope that helps a bit , hannes[size=78%]