The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Buildings & planning => Topic started by: southernskye on April 26, 2013, 09:57:07 am
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Morning all,
I am just in the process of organising an outbuilding (big garage) of around 4m wide by 8m long.
I have checked the price of block-built with 3 local chaps and the prices are way above my budget...even single layer block.
So, my choices come down to Timber or steel.
Prices coming in quite similar.
Steel would appear to be the choice for less maintenance but timber seems to offer a warmer dryer build?
So, advice, which would you go for ...and why?
Thanks
Sskye
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Personally I prefer timber, only because we have come across some shysters in the steel building business, we're defrauded to the tune of thousands by someone selling the same steel barn buildings to numerous buyers (police were involved).
If I bought a steel building I would want one where the company wasn't just a reseller but actually made it, a lot of them are just front men and there are a number of links in the chain, and wouldn't pay upfront, only a deposit.
In addition I think the wooded ones cope better than the same cost steel building with snow loads possibly as they cope better with sub zero temps, the building regs for steel buildings are very high now due to all the collapses in recent winters and you can erect the wooden ones yourself to save money which is much more tricky with steel. They don't suffer with condensation as much either. However they DO need more annual maintenance.
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Morning L+M,
Thanks for the input.
The buildings I would have supplied/erected after I get a concrete base to their required Specs.
The wooden one is via a Timber Co in Inverness the steel one via a seemingly large concern in AB postcode that also has a showroom/display area of their buildings.
So, from the actual "is it a good 'un" perspective, I am quite confident all is OK.
Skye tends not to get much snow so there's not really a big issue there. Wind n Water are the two worries. Had a wooden shed (12'x16') at previous house and it was solid. But the normal Does What It Says On The Tin wood preservers, well, didn't! Every year it looked like it had been sand-blasted back to, mostly, original wood. Ended up going for some expensive (but good) oil based(?) preserver. The Steel Agri building just look so solid. Oddly the wife prefers to the steel, I lean towards a wooden structure.
Rgds
Sskye
NB Sorry to hear about the fraud issues. Hope it all gets sorted for you.
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Osmo country colour is the best ive found for wooden buildings, the crummy big label ones hardly have any paint solids in them and can crack in extremes of hot and cold. The Osmo one is linseed oil based and has a rally high percentage of solids, even one coat is better than 4 of the other (which makes the cost not much different but four times less work), but any oil based one would be better than water based.
Our dodgy steel building guy was in Inverness, so unless he moved that should be ok!
We had to write off the money :-(( but there were tens of other victims incl schools etc. we still have a large base specifically for the barn that never was... Haven't managed to save up to pay for a replacement yet.
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I built a Steel shed (12mx6m) in the autumn. Never built more than a B&Q shed before but I managed fine (albeit I had aching muscles for months).
One of the conditions of the grant I got for it was to have structural engineering calcs done so they erred on the side of caution and put some serious bits of steel in it. Meant it wasn't the cheapest shed but I can sleep soundly on stormy nights.
Over the winter I have been amazed at the way the wind can drive snow and rain in. My cladding overhangs the concrete slab by about 25-30mm and the slab is 10mm in from the cladding yet loads of snow came in and up the inside of the walls. Expanding foam has since sorted that.
Not sure if a wooden building might be a bit harder to seal if gaps appear - although being fully weathertight might not be as issue for you.
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Just FYI for those who may have even the slightest glimmer of interest..... ;)
Found 2 x local firms that can do something for me and I have decided to go for an insulated structure of 60mm composite sheeting for the sides and roof and with a couple of insulated roof lights. Insulated door too and double glazed windows.
Frame will either be steel or wood. just depends which of the two I go for. Seen example of their work locally and both seem very good. Both are also highly praised by our carpenter/kitchen installer whom we have used for the last 10 years.
Not going to be cheap but should last a long time.
Rgds and thanks for the input.
Sskye
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id go for galvanised steel frame as it last for ever.
i always think timber is easier to repair for the diy-er.
are there many nissan huts over your way ss?
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Hi ShyG,
Nope, don't see many Nissen huts .....steel Bothy by the dozen mind :)
Rgds
Sskye
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we have a wooden framed barn which is about 12x12 m which you can have if you come and take it down, i just want the tin sheeting on 2 sides, the roof looks like cement fibre a couple of minor struts are split, nothing serious though. we livein grantown on spey morayshire.i could take some photos if your interested
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My shed is a galvanised steel frame with timber purlins and fibre cement roof sheets (10 x 15 metres). It would have been better had it been insulated but i built it twenty years ago and it's required little maitainance since built. Since building it i've put in blockwork walls and a loft in one end for storage.... and now i'm having to extend it because it's full
If i was building another i would go for a wooden frame though.... Possibly oak if i could afford it. Something that would blend into the environment a little better
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we have a wooden framed barn which is about 12x12 m which you can have if you come and take it down, i just want the tin sheeting on 2 sides, the roof looks like cement fibre a couple of minor struts are split, nothing serious though. we livein grantown on spey morayshire.i could take some photos if your interested
I'm in the market for a shed at the moment myself... do you think yours would break down into small enough pieces to go on the back of a lorry with a hiab?
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Sandalfarm, thanks for the shout but I am "sorted" with my plans now.
Jules stools - Yup that is the way I am going, steel frame timber purlins, 8m x 8m concrete base with 60mm composite panels and roof. Later I will also create another "room" in one corner and also a "mazanine" area for overhead storage.
Buildings of this ilk a derigueur up here and take the storms with a shrug. Ours will be a nice 2 tone to match the house too ;D
Rgds
Sskye
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A good read but if you have a fixed budget why are you going for insulation? Not sure what you plan to keep in the outbuilding but it escapes me why you need to spend money on insulation. That said we did have a pressure washer that I forgot to rinse with anti-freeze and ice expanded in it to crack a metal hose connector.
We have a wood framed unit that has a corrugated metal rood and with 2 sides corrugated to protect against prevailing wind,rain and snow. Seems to work and it a cheap option to park the cars,logs and any machines under.
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MAK - Insulated so as to make it a more pleasant place to be, especially in winter. Once the wood-burner is fired up (I shall remove that from the existing building I take down) it will help make the craft-room corner a tollerable winter working place. Also, those I know with insulated composite panel buildings seem to suffer far less with damp....even those with anti-damp membranes seem to drip more than insulated.
Rgds
Sskye
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Ahh - a refuge as well. Good idea.
We used 1.20 x60 cm boards 4cm thick expanded foam insulation. Cheap as chips here. They are easy to cut with a stanley knife and stuck to wall with dabs of plaster ( adhesive type use for plasterboard). So quick to do - we even stuck them on the inside of a wooden door.
Hope this helps.
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Excellent MAK.
Yes, I have a timescale hence getting the whole thing done by a company. Empty old and pay for storage, get new concrete base down and new buiding up then get "stuff" out of storage and into new. When that is all sorted I will section off to make 2 small rooms in there for "Mans doings and stuff":-))
Rgds
Sskye
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I have recently finished building my home as an owner-builder. I built it myself, from the ground up, doing 90% of the work without any help. It took me 18 months. I was 67 when I started and I don't have any trade background.
Our house is in the rainforest near Kuranda in Far North Queensland, Australia, an area of high rainfall and termites. There is something of a tradition here of homes which have timber cladding with natural finish and a good deal of timber inside. This raises a couple of important issues. Timber must be protected from termites, which can be very destructive in a short time. Although a timber frame can be treated, we should always keep in mind that one day we might want to sell, and buyers want to be confident about the house not being attacked. I was also concerned that because I wanted to do as much of the work as I could myself, including the frame, there could be distortion if the timber was frequently wetted, then dried out by the sun, during the many weeks it would take me to get the roof on.
I decided to deal with these issues by building a steel frame house. Rather than buy a kit home, I took the much cheaper option of buying a kit frame, which included steel stumps, steel subfloor, walls, and roof frame. All of this was supplied unassembled for me to put together on site. There was no cutting or measuring. All components were supplied ready to be bolted or screwed together. Because of the expense of getting a crane, I assembled the roof trusses lying flat on top of the walls, then stood them up. I did have a mate to help me with the big trusses and heavy beams on the verandah, but the rest I did by myself, from the ground up, apart from laying the roof sheets. I had the stump holes bored in July and the roof sheeting went on in October.
For the external cladding we chose Darwin Stringybark, which is a good looking hardwood with a natural resistance to termites. Again, I installed this working alone, with the help of a simple third hand made from scrap timber which held long lengths in place while I screwed them to the steel frame. I sealed the cladding all around and on the ends to avoid distortion and water damage.
Inside the house I lined the lounge and bedrooms with pine VJ fixed vertically to wood battens which I had screwed onto the steel walls. On the ceilings I used fibre-cement board rather than plasterboard, for two reasons. I have no experience with plasterboard, and I thought that if we ever did have a leak in the roof the fibre-cement would dry out without any problems. However, that created the problem of what to do about the joins. I was happy to use the plastic joining strips in the bathrooms and laundry but not with the panelling in the lounge and bedrooms. My solution was to install lightweight cosmetic beams with timber strips running between them, finished with varnish. I finally installed a cork floor which we think goes very well with the timber.
It is interesting to note that the steel frame is identical with the shed frame, but the use of exterior and interior timber gives a home which looks nothing like some steel frame houses I have seen, and everyone tells us it looks very appropriate in the rainforest setting. We are very happy living in our home, and it is very satisfying to have built most of it by myself. I built for a total cost of A$135,000, including all the hidden extras.
Anthony Cole
Hammers Construction Inc (http://www.hammersconstruction.com/)
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let me show you some pics of it
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SSkye,
How did the firm who put your building up do for you? We are considering similar and would like a good local recommendation!
Thank you!