The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: kevkev57 on July 06, 2009, 09:50:59 am
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I am writing on this subject thanks to Russ. He mentioned in a recent post that he keeps three months of tinned food, and as it is a pet subject of mine, i
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Gosh I am SO sloppy on the computer this morning. Back later...
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I have kept a supply of food for over 8 years now. Russ mentioned about food storage in a recent post and it prompted me to write this.
I set out with the goal of a 13 month supply of food , water and general ' must haves '
After researching, I ended up roughly following the Mormon system. They encourage buying a little each month and gradually building up a supply. This I did. I started with the basic food stuffs , rice , pasta , etc. Then flour, salt , sugar. You can go a long way with basic staple foods such as these. I was given five huge metal trunks. I fitted these to the walls in my celler using large ' L ' brackets. The trunks do not touch the walls. Each trunk contains +/- 120 kilos of rice etc. I rotate by taking left to right, and topping up once every two months. The cellar is cool at around 13C. I have never had a problem with damp or mouldy food.
Foe tinned food I use old metal office shelves bolted to the walls, again in the cellar. I have around 400 tins of food, ranging from corned beef to custard. I also have many many plastic containers with cous cous ,chic peas, split peas etc. I buy these in the arab markets in Brussels, much cheaper and they sell 50 kilo sacs !
I have a supply of water in bottles, around 1000 litres. I also have a British army water filtration system which could be used if required.
One of the tricks is to buy what you like. Sounds a daft statement but for some reason, you can end up buying tins just for the sake of it, and realize you do not like it !
Rotation is the key. You have to be strict with yourself.
I store food for many reasons. Y2K was not one of them, it was a sham. I like to know that there is food around if we lost our income. We would have enough to worry about, and having food would ease that worry a little. I also think it is good to be independant from the world just in case the flu got out of hand for example. Also if relatives were to fall on hard times then they can stay here.
Have I acheived 13 months supply ? Well it has not been tested. I like to think I have the supply. I took this on as a hobby ( ok a bit sad ) I took the time to work out our total consumption, food, essential items , fuel, light and heating. Our diesel generator , again ex army will provide for basic lighting, fridges etc. I always have over three year supply of wood.
None of this is quick and easy, but I think worthwhile.
Kevin
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Here is a good link. It is a food calculator for one year. Latter day saints site, but dont think I am putting religion on you,nor am I LDS, but they have some great ideas for food storage !
http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm
Kevin
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hello Kevin,
sounds like you do this for the same reasons as me !!! My main one is income , or total loss of ! You do it in a far more ordered way than I do though . I wish I could do it more like your system , but apart from rough calculations on weekly/monthly/yearly consumption, I just keep tins etc in boxes and work my way through them . I do always buy the longest best before date though . Due to lack of storage , I can only really keep 3 months or as at the moment, another 3 squeezed into every nook and cranny. This amount would stretch much further if needed to though, so if it ever happened that I needed to live off of this store ,it would easily last me till I could grow fresh veggies, no matter what time of year it was. I don't store water as the water supply on the farm where I live is from a spring , and there are 3 springs on my land plus in the bottom field , that has a river running through it !!, I can make a ground filtered well, just by pounding a metal bar into the ground , to a depth of about 6 feet. Then slip a pipe into it and pump as much water out as I want , very handy . If everything went on stop NOW , then I would be caught out as far as the genny goes , I need parts for it to work plus it weighs over half a ton all set up and it has to be moved a couple of miles and then taken across a field etc .. so will need to be dismantled , moved , then rebuilt in situ , (parts replaced at the same time ). Fire wood abounds in plenty and is only a few yards away and it could supply my needs just using windfall almost . I also have a fall back in that I can live off of the land if need be . I can just eat natures larder ...this is a bit sparse in winter though . Years ago I lived for 3 months only eating food I found in the field as it were. The first week I was doing this was spent making my home for the trial , It was a little room made out of stones , it even had a thatched roof . At the end of the three months it was like a normal little house , with a chair , table bed , shelves etc all made from wood collected in the woods . After the first week , I was used to the different food and got along fine . However I was only about 20 ish then , and I wouldn't do this out of choice now , I could do it if I had too. Food storage is the best way to go though , far less work !!! :D plus you can still eat the food you like best .
cheers
Russ
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Hi Russ,
We have natural springs on our land as well. Only problem is it runs down under about 200 acres of pasture and with cows on. I have never had it checked out, but would certainly use it with the filter.
I am not as a matter of habit an orderly person, so it took effort on my part to organise this food. Mistakes have been made on the way. I lost over 50 kilos of pasta that was in a metal container. I made the fatal error of asking one of my sons to bring a bag of pasta from the cellar. Two days later I went there and the lid had been left open slightly. Mice had got in...you know the rest of the story.
I am intrigued by your early days of living on what you could scavenge. Never done that. Good knowledge to retain though.
A friend of mine stores food but has the same restrictions as you on room available. He solved the problem by using an old caravan. He found it locally, and it was all stripped out before he bought it. He paid £25 for it ! He rigged up some shelves from old wood, and it now does the job well.
Good to hear from you
Kevin
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lol... I go one better (or worse ?) than your friend , I LIVE in an old caravan !!! ::) On the farm where I live, I am in an old 30x10 static mobile home. On my land 2.5 miles away I have an old 4 berth touring caravan with a woodburner fitted. I intend to make food stores on my land , for both fresh fruit+ veg and for tinned stuff etc. They will be dug into the ground (side of a hill) and lined with stone walls , the stone from the river and field .
I have had losses due to mice etc . It doesn't happen now as I am used to keeping it free of the little buggers now. This year I will be growing wheat , barley , rye and oats and storing for use . I am concerned about ergot though . A type of mould that can KILL !!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot
If the water you have on your land is from deep enough down , the land itself would be a good enough filter, but as you have a filter already why not use it anyway !!. You could also make a sand filter very easily out of blue plastic barrels etc. When I lived without any bought food , years ago, it was relatively easy . I was 30 years younger for a start . But my dad had taught me the basics of survival , and I had read more myself . I had read Richard Mabey's book 'Food For Free'
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Food-Free-Richard-Mabey/dp/0002201593
An excellent book and teaches you enough to stop you from starving . The little house I built in the woods had walls about 18" thick and up to about 6' high . It had a little inglenook firplace on one side , all the walls were made out of stone from the river near by , the roof timbers were made from a few pine trees dropped and de barked . The thatch was just some dried reed collected from a marshy clearing by the river. The chair, table etc , were made from split pine trees and used mortise and tenons with wooden pegs . The only tools I had were a good knife and a small bow saw and an old bit and brace. I made some string out of stinging nettles which was really strong , I even made a bow and arrows . This was good enough to catch rabbits and could have got anything bigger if I had wanted too. The river supplied a good number of fish for food , and all my water for drinking and washing etc . Dandelions provided good salad greens and a sort of coffee like drink , more like chicory coffee really ( which I hate !!) and stinging nettles made good soup . Rabbits made good main meals, as did wild duck , a goose even squirrel . I had wild garlic , wild carrot and parsley even wild strawberries too . I did cheat a few weeks before I started living that way , by going to the sea, only a 2 mile walk , and collecting sea water and distilling it in the sun to get salt . I think I got about 1/2 lb in a day . So although I did miss all the usual things we have , I didn't starve , I didn't even go slightly hungry . If I wanted to do this now , I would need to do a bit of reading again , but could do it . I did it then to see if I could live completely self sufficiently , well for 3 months I did ::)
cheers
Russ
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Russ, I have no idea why no one has suggested they make a film of your extra ordinary life. How interesting! Thanks
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hello James,
it would either be a very short film or a boring one ... ::) ;D . Most of my life has been spent doing the same as everyone else , going to work etc etc . At the time I spent the 3 months living off the land , I was out of work . The little house was in a wood of some 300 acres or so which bordered along the fields of the farm we were living on . It was only about 600 yards from our house where my mum ,dad and 6 brothers and sisters were . They would sometimes pop down and have a chat , but I had said that they couldn't do anything . It was meant to be ME living self sufficiently after all. It is strange that even living a different life like I tend to do , many things are the same no matter what. Washing (by hand), cleaning (by hand) cooking etc and then all the other normal things like walking the dogs etc. Very little is THAT different really , just that most people use all sorts of electric gadgets to do jobs and go and buy all their food from a shop . Although the little house I made has gone now , it was still there some 18 years after I built it . Not bad for a house made of stone and mud . It was still useable as a house about 5 years after I made it , but the roof had rotted after about 8 years , it was in a damp forrest !!! The woodland it was in has since been felled and it may have been them that knocked it down .
cheers
Russ
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it's not april the 1st is it?
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;D no just a fool (ME ) talking ... :o ;D
cheers
Russ
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Your nobody's fool Russ, and although you think it is no achievement, these skills of yours are well worth writing.
I have the same book you mentioned, and I found it really interesting, I think we may all need to store food in the future, and live on less food than we are used to.
I have a lot of health issues, and would need to eat a lot of berries, which are expensive fresh in the shops, don't seem available in tins, and would just turn to mush or have to be juiced if frozen. Any thoughts on berry storage?
We are hoping to install a small water wheel on a stream that runs through our land in the future, which will hopefully give us lighting and power for freezing.
We are a long way off doing it, we want to do wind power too, but it is just not cost effective for us at the moment.
We have lived in a 32 x 12 mobile home for seven years, and in October last, Joe and I started to build a timber framed home out of pressure treated timber.
We built around the mobile home, and put on a slate roof. We now have a one and a half storey two bedroomed home roughly 32 x 24ft.
We did all the labour ourselves, we still do not know how we did it, we had a deadline of 17th December 2008 to get the outside shell up, whilst still running the farm, and the butchery for its first year.
We both worked day and night and had help from a friend two days per week.
You can view the cabin we built on www.tullywoodfarm.com, its on the farm pictures page.
There is a 200 year old cottage and barn on our land, and our intentions were to renovate that, but it really needs knocking down as the foundations are not stable.
We have a mountain spring well for drinking, which is crystal clear. A friend of min who lived in Africa for years said "if its clear and doesn't smell - it is safe"
We have diverted a stream to feed to our taps, washing machine and shower, and installed a filter system on it, and storage tanks. If we have good weather (pretty scarce in the west of Ireland, we have ran out of water for a few days until it rains again. We hope to double the storage tanks this year, and also try to tank up the overflow from the spring well as at the moment it just feeds back into the stream lower down the mountain.
We still hope to rebuild the old stone cottage, but since moving here, I got cancer and was really ill for two years, after having major surgery, so Joe had to look after me and our daughter Tara, and the money we had to build went on living expenses and running the car.
All our plans went to pot - the best laid plans of mice and men - and what has resulted is us being very happy with all our compromises, and mortgage free.
I know I am lucky to still be here and think every day is a bonus and a new start.
Start writing - and give yourself a pat on the back for trying it - family down the road or not - you did what a lot of people only ever waffle about and never do! ;D
If you have any books to recommend on water wheels etc let us know.
kind regards
Julie
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hello Julie,
very sorry to hear about your health scare , fingers crossed for you that all is well. Things like that are a real wake up call . Had a big car smash and a few other things that have hit me hard at times , but I am still here kicking ....
You could try canning or bottling really , any berries .
http://www.fruitexpert.co.uk/CanningAndBottlingFruit.html
Apart from jam , you can store berries like the ones in tins you buy for fruit pies etc , but in glass jars instead. Or if you have enough freezer space, you could make loads of fruit pies as the fruit comes into season and store the surplus.
Books on the old type of waterwheel are hard to find . There are plenty showing old mills etc and you can sit down and glean enough info from them to make your own , but there are few with any really detailed info on making a set up . most books are for modern type hydro power . This is all ok but it does get very expensive, £1000 for this £1000 for that and so on . I just don't live in that world I'm afraid. So I will go the 200 year old technology way , and I will make mine out of scrap . I want everything I make , to be able to be fixed by me , not send away for a new bit and spend another £1000 .... Lighting is easy to sort out from a water wheel . It is things like freezers that cause problems. I am sadly not clued up on anything electrical . But I think they need a fair bit of leccy as they kick in . This is hard for a waterwheel to cope with . That is one reason I will be going down the road of storing food by , drying , smoking , salting , bottling , clamping etc . Only lights to sort out then . I have done the life with candles bit , and it is great the first day or so . Then you want to read a book or something and life starts to get harder . I lived in a caravan for 2 years with candles, and I think I hated 23 months 3 weeks and 6 days of it .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si1oWJjBD6g
http://www.pedleywheel.org.uk/pw/articles/worldrenewableenergycongressvi.htm
The above are a couple of links to a good waterwheel set up , this is more or less exactly what I want to set up .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Windmills-Wind-Motors-P-Powell/dp/0917914279/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247096381&sr=8-2
The above link is for a good old book on old style windmills, the sort you see on old cowboy films etc. I have the book and it is very good . You can make a windmill from that and fit a car alternator or similar for 12 volt power to charge batteries and run lights .
Water is easy if you have a spring or a stream, less so if you don't ...lol. Although water may well look clean and not smell , it may have cryptosporidium in it , and you don't want a bout of that . So check your water supply and filter or boil if not sure .
Good luck with what you are doing , hope it all works out for you .
cheers
Russ
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As a mother with 2 young children should I be stockpiling food in my garage? We have plenty veg and eggs etc in the garden, and some tins/pasta/rice in the cupboard but not enough to see us through any prolonged period. And I certainly don't have enough water if the mains were to be cut off.
Is this my responsability to ensure I can provide for my children if there was a break down in the supply chain?
Does everyone else do it and just not talk about it?
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Yes I certanly have stock piled a lot of food BUT a lot of it is still on the HOOF !.
If I get hungry the pigs won't have a leg to stand on LOL.
Kind regards
Joe
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Hello Rusty
Thanks a million for all that information - you see, there is no book available with all this stuff in it - or at least where to find it.
It is to find people like yourself that is why these forums should exist - for this is the type of stuff I am certainly looking for - practical, useful and forward planning.
Joe my husband thinks like you, he wants to be able to fix everything too, thats why we run around in an old landrover, and have a second one to fix up for the future - you can fix them yourself!.
The old cowboy windmill sounds fantastic - Joe knows word for word the old Clint Eastwood films, at least once a month I have to watch "The Outlaw Josie Wales" again, I love Clint too, showing my age now :D
Will spend our next free time (Whats that!) looking at all your references and wishing we could get on with it now, so impatient to get things going towards being off-grid.
Take care Russ
Julie x
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Gill and Tom , Food storage is not wide spread ( I think ) but maybe others will not agree. For me its a comfort zone , a buffer , against possible problems in the food chain,and in case we fall on hard times. Also we find that we save a lot of time and fuel by bulk buying. My shopping trips are infrequent now.
A garage is ok for storage. No need for fancy containers either. Shelving is good. If you are stacking in metal or strong plastic containers, I would suggest putting some pallet boards down, as a gap between floor and food.
Try and buy tins that do not have the ' ring pull ' They are getting popular but the seal is not so good as the traditional ones.
Some people box up ' per month ' like a food parcel each month. You need to be more organised than me for that !
Start with the cheapest essentials, rice , pasta, flour , sugar etc. You get a lot of food for your money, and it spurs you on.
No one can REALLY imagine a breakdown in the national food supply. Unthinkable for many. However many so called ' unthinkable ' things have happened on this planet the last few years..
Kevin
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hello G + T,
as Kevin said avoid those horrid ring pull things . I have had food gone off in those in a very short time . As for storage in general, well those that don't believe in it , think that anyone that stores is a complete nutter. So what !! let them . Just do it if you feel the need. The thing to remember is that our food supply isn't as safe and guaranteed as it has been in the past , and certainly not as safe as we THINK it is still now. Only in this last year did the government get all the big supermarket names together round the table , to discuss food distribution in an emergency . (I remember the days when such an emergency would have been the governments job to sort out ...not Tescos', but still).
Our food supply is based basically, on a three day turn round. In short that means if you stop deliveries from the ports to the distribution points , then three days later, the supermarkets are EMPTY , and the government has put it in the hands of Tesco and the like to RATION out what food there is . Can you imagine the panic and mayhem that would cause ? In just a day or so you could have people killing for food , even in the UK . This happened in the USA after hurricane Katrina , and although no one got killed , it happened here in the UK in the 1970's over a sugar shortage ??? I saw people kicking the cr*p out of each other over a bag of sugar ...crazy!!!
If you are growing food already you are half way to solving the problem should it arise. Storing any surplus will help sort the other half out . Freezers are ok as long as the electric is on . There is already talk of long blackouts on the way , 2 , 3 , 4 days at a time . Will your freezer full of food be ok ? Therefore go for plenty of bottled,canned food . Pickled , stored in brine , made into jams ,veg stored in sand, clamps etc etc. Also keep your seed supply topped up . Don't buy F1 varieties , go for the old varieties , all tried and tested , and you can let a few plants go to seed and save it for the next crop. Old coffee jars etc are good for storing seed in , as well as dried herbs even pickled onions. Make plenty of chutney and pickle too , and keep a few lb of salt in a dry plastic container. The average person eats far more than they need to these days , so when calculating the amounts you need to store, allow for that !! I don't mean aim to exist on one potato a day for 4 of you , but just think about what you really need to store. Oh and if you are storing in a garage , make sure it is vermin proof !!!! rats and mice will find food very fast , that it isn't damp !! and that it is safe from people too...don't tell all and sundry that you have it full of food . If there were a food shortage , those very same people may pay you a visit when they get hungry !!!
The reasons for a food shortage are many , fuel crisis (we are nearer to that than anyone realises) , crop failure ( the world has been very close to that for the last few years ) , war ,economic crash ( I mean worse than we have had so far , total collapse IS possible even now !!) , or pandemic illness !!! how near are we to that ???
My reasons to have my own food is firstly for health reasons , I don't want to eat the crap they put in our food , the list of what they put in our food goes on forever, then my money supply is very little and subject to stop at any moment for any length of time , then all the above reasons , fuel shortage , economy crash , pandemic etc etc . This isn't meant to scare anyone , and there will be many who won't bother to store anything , fine thats up to them . I do it because I want my life in MY hands , not Gordon Browns ,or whoever replaces him . Do you think they will really look after you ????? Don't panic about it though , life is ok at the moment , and may well stay that way for a long time . Live your life doing what you like doing and store food if you want to.
cheers
Russ
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Hello Julie,
yes the old style windmills are great . They are easy to make , out of timber or angle iron, and can provide water pumping or leccy . The old American ones were for water pumping , then in the 1920' onwards they were used to generate leccy as well . I have seen some set ups in the USA (in books etc ) where the windmill is used to generate leccy and then that used to power an electric water pump ??? how things change .... But the whole system is very much makeable/buildable by the average diy-er , all very easy .
Another good book to have is :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sewage-Solutions-Answering-Nature-Third/dp/1902175263/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247148101&sr=1-1
It covers all aspects of sewage and greywater treatment , compost loos , reed beds etc etc....
cheers
Russ
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Thanks again for that.
I have just got a book called
Self Reliance - A Recipe for the New Millennium, by John Yeoman, ISBN 1-85623-015-5
Have you got / heard of it?
It looks to cover a lot of things, and I think that it would also help G + T get their mind around storing and why you might need to be able to make your own drinking water etc.
I have only just got it, so at the beginning, at first it sounds like a cook book, but when you look at the contents list it covers things like:
How to get out of debt.
How to make things last - recycle, get the most out of things.
Lots of tips on economy and food etc.
Free Food + the 12 survival plants - found everywhere
Covers berries, seeds, nuts, herbs,
Free medicine from nature
The last chapter covers Recipes for real and may be a little frightening for people who do not think of how they would survive in the worst case scenarios that may happen, but better to be educated and prepared I believe, and fear is only a word - well for me anyway!
It Covers Planning for the unthinkable
Emergency food imrtovisations
Hunting Tips
How to cheat at fishing - and eat what you catch
Animal Husbandry
Temporary Family Emergencies
Long term disasters
Hopefully we will never need everything in the book, but it is a good start by the looks of it.
regards to ye all
Julie
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Good morning guys. I am so interested in food storage, I never ever thought of a food shortage until I read this thread and now Id love to start hoarding straight away!! Id love as much infomation on it as possible from ye please. I have a shed in mind that would be perfect for the job, it was re-roofed about 4 years ago and is most certainly dry. It has plugs in it so I could plug in the thingy to keep mice and spiders away so I should be fairly well sorted its next door to my "utility" (another shed the exact same size as the one in mind for storage - don't ask me the size I'm quite useless for guessing things like that!) and is really quite close to the house. I love organising and planning so I am in my element at the moment. The shed is currently used to store more rubbish than anything else so now that I have a very good use for the shed we have a good excuse to give it a good clearing out!
Any tips would be greatly appreciated as I have never done this before ;D
PS - only one concern - that thingy that makes noise that only mice etc can hear and keep away from my food will be a few yards away from my hen house (will get OH to tell me the more approx measurement!) and I am afraid that it will disturb them. We can move the hen house no problem but would prefer to leave it as it is but don't want to upset the girls either! :chook:
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Hi kerrygirl,
I had those so called mouse and rat repeller's in my feed store, But it didn't work for me not only did they eat the food they also ate the bl**ding wires to the socket that was powering the unit!.
I will get back to you later I promise on what to store and how.
Kind regards
Joe
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Joe, thank you very much. I also have 6 cats, 4 of which are great mouse catchers who I hope will help keep them at bay! :cat:
I know you are very busy so take your time getting back to me, as I said I need to clear out the shed first! ;D
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hello KG,
mice and rats , yuk ...as Joe said those noise things are useless, they do one thing , make money for the people that make them ....thats it ! The best and more or less fool proof way of keeping them out is to line the shed (if it is a wooden one ?) with aluminium , or galvanised sheet steel . Make sure there are no holes anywhere, larger than 1/4" . A young mouse can get through anything larger with ease . Then store all food in metal bins , tins and glass jars . Plastic will keep food dry , but mousy or ratty will gnaw through it in seconds. I use tesco 200 grm empty coffee jars , and they take 500 grm packets of beans , peas , rice etc . Tinned food comes ready to store ::) but remember to avoid ring pull if you can , they aren't as reliable as normal tins. Wheat, barley ,oats etc store better as grain , so if you can store it like that and have some way of processing it . That will provide long term storage , you could also have flour ready ground etc , and that would be your short term, use first stuff. If you use sugar then you will have to make sure there is no moisture at all . Like salt , sugar soaks up all moisture !!! You could also start to keep bees !! free honey which is sugar !!! and the bees store it for you !! You also get wax for candles ,( if there were complete breakdown !!!). Also remember not to store food that you don't eat . If you are allergic to nuts , 500 jars of peanut butter are a bit of a waste !!
What to store ? .. well just go for what you eat now anyway is the best thing . That way you will use it in rotation . There is little point in filling a shed with food and leaving it for the next 5 years !!! I go for vegetable soups and stews, and rice pudding, as well as macaroni cheese etc . I know you can make all your own from fresh goods , but , what if the fresh stuff gets ruined , attacked by rats , goes rotten ? I also keep plenty of tinned beans : cannelloni , butter , harricot , black , runner etc etc. as well as peas , new potatoes and all other veg in tins. Fruit in tins as well . Jam , chutney ,pickle , and any pickled stuff such as onions , gherkins , cabbage and so on , store in glass jars.
One thing to think of with all this food , is weight . Make sure that the floor of the shed is well supported , a wooden floor without correct support will sag over time , and maybe allow an entry for rats.
cheers
Russ
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Hi Kerry, looks like Russ got there first with some sensible ideas about your shed ! I am glad I started this topic, if it means some of you will be prepared as well.
One point, drop the word ' hoarding ' from your brain. Think ' rotation ' this is most important.
Once you have achieved the right level of food in storage, it is a most satisifying feeling. Remember also to store everything else that we need in our day to day lives.
For more info just google. There are many good sites, mainly American, and most latter day saints, where food storage is part of their religion.
Good luck !
Kevin
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Thanks Russ & Kevin, I know I said hoard but I am a devil for rotating our own food and the animals food so I know it will be easy for me to do when I set up our shed.
The shed is concrete built with a concrete floor (I suppose you are probably saying "obviously!!") and a galvanised sheet roof. We have been living in our house for 5 years now and have yet to see any mice or rats in the house, the utility or the other shed so hopefully thats a good sign ;) The only live ones I've really seen around is if my cats bring them back home to play with.
I do have the plan for bees in the future but next year will be setting up our veg garden so maybe the year after I will get the bees in :bee: I do love honey!
Thanks for the info. Will have fun starting it!! ;D
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Hi Kerry, looks like Russ got there first with some sensible ideas about your shed ! I am glad I started this topic, if it means some of you will be prepared as well.
Good luck !
Kevin
Well said Kev - we definately need someone to talk to or we will get very lonely -
Carrier Pigeons?
CB Radio's?
Smoke signals?
Any other ideas????
Julie
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What about having aside the following as well as the food:-
Bottle of gas
Batteries
Radio
Torch
First aid kit
And some alcohol for medicinal purposes of course!! ;D
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hello KG,
you can take storage to whatever level you want really !!. I use lpg for cooking , but if meltdown were to occur , I would just change to using wood for heat and cooking . I don't really have that much that runs on batteries, but anything that does I use rechargeable ones , a solar charger is on my list of things to get !!! For torches I use windup ones , radio I never listen too anyway and first aid kit I have already . I always keep a few boxes of paracetamol , aspirin , nurofen anyway along with plenty of germolene , detol, tcp etc etc . Alcohol I don't use for medical purposes and I don't drink, so have no need for it . However , what you choose to have in store is a personal thing . You have to work out what you would want /need to have if ?, meltdown or even just a dire shortage of things were to happen. My lifestyle is very simple , I therefore need very little . If meltdown were to occur , my life wouldn't really change that much . The one thing that would be different is the pc !!! As time goes on I will sort out a laptop , so I will have access to info stored on dvd etc. , but it isn't really on the top of my list . I will have plenty of things to do anyway . If I were to be very organised , I would make a proper list of needs and wants , and add/subtract to that list as time went by . But I know what I want/need, and therefore don't bother . That may change if I saw things were getting iffy for whatever reason, but so far I just rely on instinct and routine/habit. It is a good idea though, to get everyone else's views , they may give you ideas you hadn't thought of . Thats why I mention things I am thinking about . There is always someone out there, that has done more than me , has better ideas , knows more about things than I do , and saves me from reinventing the wheel !!!
cheers
Russ
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I have a few other items on my storage wish list too, some are expensive, but last a long time and you get what you pay for - and some of the expensive ones can be had on Ebay for reasonable money.
Barbour Jackets - Breathable and waterproof for hunting and working in.
Gore Tex Boots for the winter - they keep your feet warm AND dry. My Ecco ones last me about six years so at 110 pounds not a bad price over the time that they last if you look after them.
Wellies in all sizes your kids will grow to, plus waterproof coats and pants - Lidl are good!
Knifes and sharpening tools - for butchering your animals and making fur items from the skin (can't waste anything in an emergency). :o
Protective paint, oil, wd40, grease, to keep all hand tools working.
I am sure there are loads more non-food items we should be thinking about -
Help me add to the list - Julie
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If things did go t*ts up , then footware would be one of the things I would soon run out of . I don't have enough money top store loads of things like that . But if it was that bad I would go foraging for what I needed :o :o
I have enough knives anyway , but if I needed more, I could make what I needed in the forge,out of scrap metal.
Instead of protective paint I would grow linseed , both for the oil and the fibre . Oil would treat timber etc and the fibre would go to make yarn for sowing and for making linen for clothing . This I am doing anyway , end of the world or not !!!. I will also be growing hemp for fibre and oil . Oil for health and cooking , fibre for clothing , sacks ,string , rope etc . Beeswax from my beehives will supply all I need to waterproof any clothing and it will also stop tools from rusting and polish any furniture should I so wish . Grease would come from sheep and pigs etc . It has all been done before , and is all still out there and easily available . It is just us that have forgotten how to obtain it , we are so used to buying everything off the shelf .
cheers
Russ
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Bee's Bee's Bee's
Now all you have to do is convince Julie to let me have some!!.
I have wanted to get them for over three years.
Julie normally lets me keep whatever animals I want, But has drawn the line at Bee's SO far but I am still working on them. ;) ;) ;)
So PLEASE to to convince her for me as I can see the full advantages of keeping them
Honey, Wax, Sugar substitute among a few but more importantly POLUNATION of all our fruit tree's etc.
Kind regards
Joe
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joe we were taliking to a beekeeper today!!
he lost all his hives to colony colaps syndrome.
he said you used to be able to buy bees for £50, but now they cost around £500.
He has not been keeping bees for the last couple of years, and had given up as the cost of purchasing new bees was too high.
However a swarm gathered were he works, he has collected them and they are multiplying. I hope it all works out for him again.
my OH john would like bees..... BUT i like julie am not sure :(
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This is the problem - I am in a dilemma.
I know that Bees could be in danger, and I realise that they are a very important part of our ecology, and we desperately need to make sure that there are plenty around.
Hiya Smiffy, I just hate being stung and react badly to stings - and thinking that there could be thousands on my land just scares me a little. :-\
I really believe that Russ knows his stuff and maybe I should let Joe go ahead and get some, but where do you draw the line - and if we are hoping to educate school children on the farm, will a population of bees here cause us problems? ???
Where do you live? I am over near Castleford next week and you mentioned being near the miners I think?
regards
Julie
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Hello Joe+Julie,
bees......I hate getting stung too, but luckily I do not react to them at all (apart from the swearing !!) . My niece reacts badly though and has to carry stuff with her just in case she gets stung. She keeps well away from the bees ...lol . As long as you could keep the bees out of the way somewhere , well away from where the school kids will go , then I can't see much of a problem . Joe would be the one doing the work with them ? and Julie reaping all the benefits , but keeping well away from them !!! I have one hive on my land ,and as long as you keep about 30 or 40 feet away from it , you don't notice any more bees than if it wasn't there . If you go closer , you notice them flying over, either off out on their travels , or comming back home fully loaded. It is only if you stand in front of the hive , say within 12 feet or so , that they start to buzz you a bit !! I would say if your reaction is life threatening , give them a miss, or keep them on someone else's land nearby ? However , if you can create a little bee yard in the corner of a field , well away from your house and any paths that you use regularly , then give them a go . There is a link on here somewhere to a video of the swarm that moved into an empty hive in my yard , how's that for luck ?
cheers
Russ
here is the link : http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php/topic,680.0.html
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www.greatdreams.com/barter.htm
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Hiya Russ
Thanks for that - could'nt help going all a shiver watching you handle the hive - but saw them entering the hive - will get Joe to view and have a pow wow later on bees - we have been to the beach as friends staying over -
Would they not swarm near flowers or apple trees etc, even if the hive was put in our little broadleaf woods?
We only have 5 acres, and the woods are the furthest away from public areas but a few yards from my herb garden, fruit garden and greenhouse, and we have a lot of Lavender and hanging baskets and pots in public areas for colour.
Julie
P.S. We have learned more from you in a few days that reading 50 books - Thankyou ;D ;D
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Hello Gem
Thanks for the link - nice talking to you this morning and hope to meet up soon
Julie
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Hello Julie ,
I doubt you would notice any more bees on your flowers than you get now really . They will do all the stuff close to the hive very quickly then they travel and search an area about 2-3 miles diameter. So 30,000 or so bees in an area that size just dissappear !!! On my land I have a hive and it is about 90 feet or so away from the veggie plot . I see no more bees there now than I did before I got the bees. They don't swarm over flowers , you just get one or two floating about doing their thing ::). When they do SWARM , they are going off to look for another home (thats how I got the ones in the video !!) . However , they are really quite calm and safe when swarming , as long as you don't start waving your arms about and shouting like some sort of nutter!!!! just leave them be , and they will just fly up into the air , making a really loud noise , and fly off !!!! What they don't like though is things like strimmers and chainsaws etc , or as I found out , someone digging about 15 foot from the hive, I found out that day that you cannot out run bees !!!!! they fly faster than I can run !!! Lesson learned ... don't dig near the hive ... since then , no probs. ::) ;D
cheers
Russ
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Where do you live? I am over near Castleford next week and you mentioned being near the miners I think?
regards
Julie
Hi Julie
we are in doncaster, about 1/2 hour from cass
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Hiya - sent you a personal mail to see if you can meet up with me on Friday
Julie x
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Re BEES
Joe 1 - Julie 0 :o
Decided Joe can get bees when we can afford it - he will have to go on a course first and make sure he has all the protective gear etc.
Might be next year - but thank you for all the info - I can see the benefits and Joe promises me I will not have to deal with them - (He made this promise when he got the pigs but I am very involved with those - still don't like the smell when there indoors farrowing though!!) :pig:
So our food storage - preservation and all will be much more efficient when the bees arrive.
I am sure Joe will be asking loadsa questions now he has the go-ahead ;D ;D
Julie
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Re BEES
Joe 1 - Julie 0 :o
Decided Joe can get bees when we can afford it - he will have to go on a course first and make sure he has all the protective gear etc.
Julie
find out where your local beekeepers club is. they will let you go out with their bees, john is going to a meeting in doncaster next month time permitting
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Joe's found a place, you go on a course one day for eight weeks, they kit you out with all the gear, a hive, and a swarm of bees for 450-500euro.
It sounds reasonable - if money was easier to get these days I would go for it - but might be worth enquiring further.
Julie
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found an advert in last weeks N.I dealer (dungannon area)
honey bees for sale 200stg
048 375 48074 after 6pm
mccooljoe@gmail.com
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Hi Gem
I thankyou for that But I am going to get some experience with them before embarking on this mission.
I want the stings to stay where they should and not UP MY A**E when I have pi**ed them off doing something wrong. :dunce:
I am talking to a friend who keeps Bees (But he has an aggressive Queen) and he is going to organise for me to go to a friend of his,Who thank God has quiet Bees and they will show me what I need to Know.
I am also looking to join my local Bee keepers club.
Kind regards
Joe :)
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just had a thought (albeit a completely random one)
if for example life as you know it came to an end etc etc...
bread is one of our staple foods (along with many flour based products)
growing grain and grinding it down into flour is not the easiest of tasks.
what would be a good/easier alternative?
any recipes?
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hello Gem,
if as you say , life were to change on such a dramatic scale , then just about all of us would be up that creek without a paddle (or enough seed to grow anything ) . There are alternatives to wheat as a staple food , but all have there own difficulties . If we were to accept the premise that life has changed for whatever reason , ie disease , fuel shortage , war , climate change etc etc, then we would also have to accept that each of those reasons would each bring about their own individual responses . For example if life changed because of disease , and you had enough seed to supply your food, and you were also fit and able to till , sow and harvest then no problems . If, however, it was changed due to climate , then the seed you have may not survive the new climate change ? A good plan would be to grow small amounts of a few different types of seed ie , quinoa , amaranth , maize , wheat , oats , barley , rye , rice etc. This way you would have at least something that would supply your staple diet. Very few people are prepared to grow all those 'just in case' !! My choice would be to grow wheat , oats , barley and rye , as my all round staple grains . These are easy to grow as they are really just grass , sow them, and they grow. The thing to do is avoid modern varieties . Although they provide much more grain per acre , they also require more knowledge to grow in many respects . Older types are easier to cope with and have been 'played with' less !!. Then there is the converting to flour , just about all grains require grinding to some degree . I have grown and ground , quinoa , amaranth , maize and wheat etc. The worst grain I found was one not mentioned so far , spelt . It was like grinding steel pellets. I would therefore grow wheat , barley, oates and rye along with hemp , linseed , rice ? , with smaller amounts of amaranth, quinoa and maize. As for recipes, pop any of the names into google, and you will get hundreds for each !!
cheers
Russ
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if for example life as you know it came to an end etc etc...
My honest recommendation, would be to purchase a paddle. A good 90% of the population would find themselves up sh*t creek, and simply wouldn't be able to cope. I know that we would find it very, very hard.
Regards,
Morgan
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I have some paddle seeds for sale if you want ? ::) ;D ;D
cheers
Russ
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I went out this morning and planted some pasta and spaghetti....at least we won't go hungry when the supermarket shelves are bare. :dunce: :farmer:
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why your pasta should be nearly ready for harvesting then! its very quick growing you know!
whisper! im gonna sneak around to morgans house tonight and plant loads of spaghetti in clumps around her veg patch, LOL
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pasta/spaghetti !!!! yes .. like I said, wheat would be the top of the list .... ;D ;D
The thing is really , if the world did collapse to the degree where there was no food , no oil , petrol even communications , then those left to survive would have a very grim time . Food storage will cope with short to long term shortage of food , depending on how much you can store, but if there were going to be no more food 'ever', then things change a lot . It is ok having enough seed to grow some wheat , but you have to have enough to grow all that you need for say bread as well as some left over for the following years seed as well . You always have to have enough to grow this years crop , as well as having enough for next years crop, in case this years crop gets wiped out by weather or disease !!! , there will be no agri co-op to buy more seed from ...So if you were going to sow an acre , you would need 1/2cwt-1cwt approx, for your first crop , and the same for the following years crop ( in case of failure ) ,plus any that you need for food . If you needed 6 loaves per week , then you would need 6lb of flour approx. 6lb per week is 312lb of flour so maybe about 500lb -600lb of wheat. One acre would give you 1-1 1/2 tons of wheat seed , so plenty to spare . What it boils down to , is , if you aren't growing and saving before the collapse ?, then you ain't going to get by after !!!! You will be relying on whatever you can find around you , wild food . Very few people even keep ALL of their own veg seed now days . The end is nigh !!!!
cheers
Russ
ps: I would also doubt if only 90% of any survivors ? could make it past the first year let alone the second or third !!! I would think that 95% + would fold , only very small numbers would make it through .
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I give myself a week!
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The way this thread is going, its about time to mention... ' The survivors tv series ' the orginal version that is , back in the 70s. Bit dated, but some good stuff that makes you think what it would be like.
Kevin
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Hello Kev,
yes I have it on dvd ...lol. I thought it was great when it first came on . Although I did notice all the faults ...all very middle class , all stayed very clean with perfect hair ...and the cars that they used to find and then use ... they always started ok !! after sitting untouched for months , wish my battery was that good !! Anyway , those faults aside , I thought it was a very good series . I don't however, think that it shows how life would really be after such an event , although the first program in the series is startlingly close to what we are seeing on the tv about swine flu at the moment !!!. The new series missed the reality as well I think . Another program from about the same time as the first survivors was 'No Blade of Grass' , I think that got nearer to reality on some levels.
cheers
Russ
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnB8eo6CH2s
that is for the first part of ' No Blade of Grass '. I have watched the whole thing on youtube , so you should be able to find all the other parts. Funny thing is , when we moved from London to Wales in 1977 , we had an almost identical white Zodiac estate car.....the white hearse the locals called it ...lol
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81_-VaG40-4&feature=related