The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: moprabbit on March 25, 2013, 05:16:45 pm
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I'm helping a friend with lambing. One of his ewes has been showing signs of being in labour for most of the day - restless, walking around etc. About one and a half hours ago she started lying down,getting up, digging etc and we thought she'd soon lamb - but as yet nothing. The water bag appeared then disappeared. I just wondered how long we should leave her before we intervene? Thanks
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I would give her 45mins to 1hr after the water bag appears, then have an exploratory look.
Is she actively straining now?
(The "pre-amble" before the water bag appears can go on all day, but it's when the water bag appears that means that lambing is imminent.)
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Hmmm If the water bag has showed a while ago and still nothing I personally would have a gentle feel.
Good luck :fc:
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The water bag showed then popped back inside - should I have a feel even if the water bag is still inside? Thanks
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It maybe wasn't the water bag but was the lamb sac. I'd definitely have a gentle feel.
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My thoughts are that so long as you are Very clean, very gentle and use lots of lube then you are unlikely to do any harm.
Should there me a malpresentation, if left this WILL cause problems. Gently does it and you will not harm the ewe or the lamb (if the lamb is alive), The presence of anything from the vulva IMO means something has started ;)
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I did intervene - a gentle feel and there were 2 feet and a head - a gentle pull and out popped 1 healthy lamb. Another feel and there was the 2nd lamb - correctly positioned - another gentle pull, and out popped another healthy lamb!!
Why Mum was making all the fuss I don't know... anyway thanks for the help I appreciated it and was able to act on it with confidence. Thank you!
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Hurrah for a happy ending!
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: YAY!!!!! :sheep: :sheep: :sheep:
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I am surprised by how cautious you all are!!
If you are worried follow your instincts and get stuck in, get the lamb out. that's what lambings all about....isnt it?
I outdoor lamb and its all about letting nature get on with it, but when it doesnt, dont have any regrets and think i should have done this or that. i just do it.
I would be interested to know what harm you could do by pulling a lamb out.
i will always deliver the second lamb if i deliver the first, get the intrusion over with, does any body else do that?
dominic
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The problem occurs if you try and pull one out to soon and the head goes back, which can be a nightmare to rectify. Saying that i always examine if I think something is amiss, if the lambs just there then out it comes, if its way down but straight I'd wait and observe a while longer. You should trust your instincts and as dominic says don't be afraid to get stuck in! It's the best way to learn.
Glad for a happy ending :thumbsup:
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i will always deliver the second lamb if i deliver the first, get the intrusion over with, does any body else do that?
BH does. He's a commercial farmer, we only lamb 300-ish these days; in his heyday it was twice that number. When you have that number, of course you make sure #2 is okay while you're there; it could be some hours before you get back to this particular ewe.
When it's smallholder / small flocks, part of what we are doing is trying to keep things as natural and stressfree as possible - so unless she needs intervention, we'd avoid intervening.
Having said which, if #1 was stuck and needed help, then I'd be inclined to get #2 out straight away too, in case it had got into any strife while being held up by the logjam. ;)
The danger with being gungho about it is that inexperienced sheepkeepers would be in there all the time, introducing infection, bruising mum's insides, etc. So vets generally advise patience and caution.
When you're experienced and have developed judgement of when something's amiss, then of course you just get stuck in when necessary. (But not otherwise.;) )
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I am surprised by how cautious you all are!!
Note that most people who responded are ladies, this means we are the owner of ladies bits. This also means we are as obliged to be as cautious about our ewes ladies bits as you men are about Steve and the twins.
When men can poo a watermelon they get an opinion regarding parturition ;) ;D ;D ;D
ETA Please take this in with the sense of humour it was intended :eyelashes: :eyelashes:
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To right CW!
Since having children I've been a lot more considerate when assisting anything! I have seen some real rough handling of lambings by blokes and can't help but think if they'd been through it............. :tired:
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I agree with Sally, sheep take time to lamb and one and ahalf hours is no time,mine are usually 4-5 after getting up laying down etc.Its not so much having the confidence to intervene its having the confidence and experience to knowwhen not to.Pleased everything went well.
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I am surprised by how cautious you all are!!
If you are worried follow your instincts and get stuck in, get the lamb out. that's what lambings all about....isnt it?
..........I would be interested to know what harm you could do by pulling a lamb out.
If inexperienced at what you are feeling for, plenty of harm. And many of us are inexperienced. Hence we come to this forum, and others like it, to check we are doing the right thing by asking for the advice of those with more knowledge than ourselves.
Erring on the side of caution, and asking for help can never be a mistake, especially when lives are at stake.
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NB: Not having a go, just trying to say if unsure, no harm in asking for help.
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[/quote]
Note that most people who responded are ladies, this means we are the owner of ladies bits. This also means we are as obliged to be as cautious about our ewes ladies bits as you men are about Steve and the twins.
When men can poo a watermelon they get an opinion regarding parturition ;) ;D ;D ;D
ETA Please take this in with the sense of humour it was intended :eyelashes: :eyelashes:
[/quote]
LOL ;D i stand corrected
d
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Well done moprabbit :thumbsup:
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I never interfere with my lambing ewes by "getting stuck in". I believe that you can do a lot more harm than good by being too quick to stick your hand inside a ewe and pulling lambs out, and just by having a little patience you will more often than not find that ewes lamb unaided. I feel there is no benefit from delving straight in to pull out a 2nd lamb and would only ever assist my ewes if they have been heaving and pushing for 20 mins with no show of a lamb whatsoever. Even then all I do is insert a couple of fingers and if I feel nothing I wait some more and this usually results in the appearance of the hooves/nose. I do assist if necessary to help the ewe by holding gently on to the lambs front legs and pulling in a downwars motion with her contractions to help the lamb fully emerge and stop the ewe becoming unduly fatigued, but that is it. It really is unnecessary to put your hand/arm up any ewe just because you feel that is what lambing is all about - that is certainly not how I see it. I much prefer to see my ewes do things naturally if they are able with me just there to observe and help if necessary. I too have seem some pretty horrendous lambing techniques by male farmers who are extremely rough with the poor ewe. Patience is a huge virtue when lambing ewes.
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Just to say, for anyone reading this - never pull on the legs unless you are certain the nose is on those legs.
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Just to concur - I dont pull anything unless I have to. I imagine having my fist up your whassnames is pretty uncomfy.
If a ewe is having problems normally the process of me trying to pen her helps a bit, I think running about is good.... ;D
But then, I often find if the lamb appears to be presented normally, just stimulating the cervix a bit leads to the ewe giving birth herself after a while.
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It really is difficult to put into words when and how to intervene, it's something that comes with experience and experience can only be gained over time and by working alongside an experienced shepherd. I was lucky enough to spend many , many years working alongside someone who helped me by letting me feel inside problem sheep myself and learn how to help with malpresentations. We lambed around 900 commercial types each year so came across just about every problem out there and dont recall ever having to have a vet. I would recommend anyone who wants to breed sheep themselves should gain some lambing experience on a sheep farm first.
If you have any doubt about what your doing then you can cause more problems than you solve. It's like me trying to fix my computer without the Dell support man on the other end! Hope this makes sense?
But the next best thing is asking on here where people can help and advise as best as they can. I personally would assist anyone having problems if they were close enough but we do seem pretty well spread around the country!
Here's to a happy and trouble free lambing :thumbsup:
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Colliewoman you had me in stiches" with when men can poo a watermelon" :o
I like ewes to deliver naturally too, but sometimes you have to get in there.
I always feel if they deliver naturally the ewe gets time to adjust to the fact she has a lamb sometimes if you pull the lamb and its a difficult lambing or the lamb's not up in the canal and there is a degree of pain for the ewe she may become frightened then it takes a while for the mothering up process to occur, especially if she's a first timer, or not used to being handled. With a natural birth the ewe gets used to the idea she's got a lamb and is quicker to lick it off.
Saying all that i would never leave a ewe in distress and a quick feel to see all is well can't do any harm.
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Agree with you 100% Sbom.
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Colliewoman you had me in stiches" with when men can poo a watermelon" :o
Pop over into the jokes section t see where I unashamedly stole it. Don't be drinking whilst watching unless you like coffee over your screen ;D
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I never interfere with my lambing ewes by "getting stuck in". I believe that you can do a lot more harm than good by being too quick to stick your hand inside a ewe and pulling lambs out,
I would accept you could bruise or introduce infection, but i have never pulled a lamb from a ewe and thought i wish i hadnt done that. i dont think i h ave ever done any harm to ewe or lamb.
I feel there is no benefit from delving straight in to pull out a 2nd lamb
the benfit is you are there you dont have to re catch the ewe, if you have ever had to catch an 80kg cheviot in full flight youll know. you dont have to worry about going back to find her in 20 mins time. you can get on with your lunch/other jobs/sleep at night!
It really is unnecessary to put your hand/arm up any ewe just because you feel that is what lambing is all about - that is certainly not how I see it. I
Lambing is all about getting your crop out live and well. the action you take in the field over those few weeks you cannot change, every decision counts. that includes looking after your ewe. i never interfere unless my experience and gut tells me to. then its get on with it to the best of my ability.
i am just interested in everyone thoughts.
d
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This has made me laugh. I have to agree that shepherdesses are probably more sympathetic. Having had a few men try and assist me with problems I will no longer allow any of them near my sheep! However one did give me good advice, if things are moving along nicely, let them but if the ewe is pushing and nothing progresses after 10-15 mins then check.
As Steve mentioned sometimes that gentle stimulation is enough to move things along but if a problem then it can be resolved without the ewe string tired. Also says once you go in get them all out. I usually give mum a few minutes to clean up first before fetching out the rest except when triplets in a muddle then I get them all out.
You do have to watch sometimes though, I have one or two ewes who will lie down and look at me with that "we'll get them out then!" Look so make the, do as much work before rushing in.