The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: scarlettoara on February 27, 2013, 05:18:44 pm
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well we have been feeding our 3 dogs raw meat and bones diet for the last 2 or 3 years. in the last 12 months they have eaten 5 rams and the off-cuts and bones of a fair few pigs. i had a good look at their teeth today and they now have badly worn down teeth front teeth and chipped canines. one dog in particular seems to have lost his entire canine tooth. they are aged 8-10 yrs and never had a problem with teeth before this. they certainly wouldnt have enough teeth left to last to old-age with this diet. they are labradors and gsd so not wimpy dogs.
anyone else experienced this?
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No, but I feed raw only some of the time. When you say pig bones, do you mean great big chunky ones? I was told to avoid anything un-crunch-able (such as beef knuckle) as it was risking chipping the teeth?
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yes, they have had all the bones, including pig heads, but there has been plenty of raw meat aswell. the gsd's front teeth are most worrying as they have worn right down to about half the normal height, do dogs get toothache like a human would?
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Barf diet has been revived recently as a natural diet BUT wild dogs don't live into double figures very often.
Raw bones are hard and do damage the enamel of the teeth which exposes the pulp cavity which in turn causes damage to the roots, pain and loss of tooth.
The damage bones can cause to the guts ismastounding. Dogs don't always chew long enough to cause a pulp food. And their intestines have shortened over time with domestication and lack of need to use the guts for this purpose ( unlike cats who still have acidy enzymes and extensive intestines to help break down bone.
Raw meat also has health risks with worm burden and salmonella. The dog may not show full signs of salmonella but on faeces samples dogs fed on barf have been shown to be passing faeces highly contaminated
with it posing a health risk to owners and anyone else who accidentally comes into contact with it.
Well, this is my input to BAaRF. Feel free to fire. :sofa: I do hope it helps with some of your worries.
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I was told by the vet to give my dog the occasional bone as he had quite dirty teeth for his age. His teeth have cleaned up really well ..... about one bone per week or two.
A neighbour has recently taken on a retired sniffer dog (spaniel) from a local couple who train guard/sniffer/ seeking dogs. This couple feed their dogs entirely on raw bones and so my neighbour has continued with this diet. I will ask him when I see him whether there are any problems with her teeth .... she is about 10.
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I've been feeding raw for 2-3 years also but they only get bones every now and then the rest of the time its raw meat with bits of bone in it and veg (Natural Instinct or DAF meat) so no problems as far as I know with teeth. Too many bones just get my dogs constipated ::)
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Our mutt gets softened slow cooked bones from our making of meat stock ( no chicken bone though ) and also raw carrots and 1/4'ers of apple.
He does not have gunge on his teeth , stinky breath or crap on his coat from eating raw bones
For a chew play thing he has a Kong Extreme XXX size every couple of months to replace the one he has trashed.
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The trouble is is that the people who came up with these diets didn't actually study dogs. They took the info that the dominance theory lot made up and applied it not to training and behaviour, but to food.
Dogs evolved scavenging on rubbish dumps. Their tooth size is half of a wolf or other large carnivore. How many dogs fin large bones on rubbish dumps? They wouldn't as people use them.
True raw feeding means feeding a large variety of veg and meat/offal/fish oil/ brewers yeast/green tea and human multivits to include all that a dog must have in it's diet to function properly.
Pandas have very large teeth, including canines- they are vegetarian!
Read coppinger&coppiner's book- dogs a new understanding. And John bradshaw's indefence of dogs.
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Thank goodness a bit of sense regarding Barf, FF!
I won't use this diet as I need to be sure my dogs are getting exactly what they need to keep them in show and work condition - a difficult balance sometimes. Barf is trial and error and I have no room for error as they are either at a show or a shoot almost every weekend of the year, and mid week too in season. I'll stick to kibble,
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I do feed raw when I can but I don't feed the large weight bearing bones. If you want to feed raw, read Tom Lonsdales 'raw meaty bones' It ain't pretty but tis a very interesting read :thumbsup:
Incidentally my previous dogs who never ate anything but raw food (I had access to a freezer in those days) never showed any tooth wear at all.
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when you look at the carcus of a small sheep or 6 mth old pig (excluding the skull) i dont think these bones are actually very big. certainly narrower in circumference than bones sold in pets at home.
as the sheep were rams, they were split into 6 pieces and fed like that, as oppsoed to being highly butchered.
pig wise - they had a fair bit of skin aswell.
there poo is mostly dried white, which according to my old dog trainer - is how dog poo should look.
wev come to the end of our source of pig/sheep meat now and have no cattle ready for 2 years at least so they will be back on kibble, probably for the rest of their lifes as they are getting on a bit now.
has anyone tried the antler chews that are now for sale as dog chews?
thanks
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out of interest, do the dogs with the tooth wear chew tennis balls?
I know a dog who never had a bone in his life wore his canines away as he was constantly chewing a tennis ball. The vet reckoned they are almost as abrasive as emery cloth!
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Tennis balls are evil to teeth! The Kong ones are a different material- safe for teeth.
My dogs LOVE the Stag bars! The tartar on my collies teeth came off after one chewing session! The don't chew it lots, just every now and then, but it really helps their teeth. I scrape a bit off occasionally it to encourage them to chew it.
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Antler chews are great, we use them, they last ages, our gsx mini who can dispatch anything in very short order keeps hers for about 3-4days. We don't give them to they puppy cos they're too hard.
The only negative thing is you need to keep an eye out because once they begin to splinter the shards appear sharp and the casing (that's not technical term mind) is harder than the equivalent bone
They have ad no adverse effects on the dogs digestion, and we have 4dogs of 3 different breeds and George the lurcher has pretty sensitive digestion
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Experiment of 1 - for the last few weeks dog has been on kibble (Skinners, then co-op own). We have not been doing much work recently. She got wired, hyper, barked at nothing in the morning, wouldn't settle, and howled when left alone.
Two days on beef heart/chicken thigh/fleshy scraps of pig trotter and she's calm, quiet, fur is lying flat and smooth, and she doesn't have that one-too-many-cups-of-coffee look.
Interestingly - after the other thread on low protein being calming - chicken is allegedly 30% protein, so protein level is not the full story.
I do think there's something to the psychology of chewing too - isn't it said that horses need long-length hay to chew for mental satisfaction, rather than grass cubes or short chopped stuff?
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[size=78%]Interestingly - after the other thread on low protein being calming - chicken is allegedly 30% protein, so protein level is not the full story.[/size]
Apparently its the source of the protein which is as important as the %. Protein from animal meat, especially unprocessed, is fine. Protein from cereals such as soya is the main culprit of making dogs hyper. So that's why a fresh diet of meat although high in protein is actually more calming than kibble. I highly recommend a fresh/raw diet but won't preach about it, its not convenient for everyone. Natural Instinct though has everything in it so you don't have to weigh things out etc - just thaw it out and dump it in their dishes :-)
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Makes perfect sense :thumbsup:
I can't afford the decent food (naturediet etc etc) so mix-n-match red meat, white meat, offal, scraps. I also cuddle her enough to notice if she's getting thinner or fatter, and adjust accordingly :D
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no tennis balls around.
i can understand chipping the canines but still suprised to see the front teeth worn down so much. mainly the bottom set, particularly the middle ones. you can see the "rings" inside the teeth but she doesnt seem in pain, tho she is a tough cookie.