The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Growing => Vegetables => Topic started by: Dans on December 12, 2012, 07:23:56 pm
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Well my compost bin is now full after 2 years of putting things in, but there's no compost, just lots of stuff and slugs.
I spoke to a friends very green fingered father who suggested I'd been putting the wrong things in.
I'm wanting to get another bin set up next to the old one, try and get it 'right' and give the old one time to do it's stuff (maybe after pulling out some bits that aren't breaking down and getting the OH to add his pee!
Problem is I'm slightly confused as to what to get (and also slightly put off by some of the incredible prices). The one I have currently is a black plastic one, shaped a bit like a Dalek, which I got through a council offer. I've also seen the wooden slatted ones and various other designs. Does anyone have thoughts on them?
The heap will be visable from the kitchen window so don't think OH will go for an uncovered heap.
And does anyone know of anyone on line with decent deals?
Thank you all in advance
Dans - longing for the day when she can't start contributing more than questions!
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The black plastic ones are crap really . I have about 8 of them and just use them to put ragwort in till it is dry , then i burn the ragwort .
Compost heaps are better if they are about 3 or 4 feet sq . Second hand pallets work well as sides , or make your own out of sawn timber .
Can't recomend any makes as i have never bought one , i was given the black plastic ones .
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4 ft cube is the optimum size for a compost bin, 'dalek' type are anaerobic composters more likely to end up as green sludge whereas pallet style compost bins compost aerobically to give you proper lovely black soil. be careful how you mix it, much better to build a whole heap in one go then cap it off. this way it will generate its own heat which kills of weed roots and seeds, i had my spring one up to 72deg c.
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See this link on how to build one using pallets. To make something a bit more attractive, we made a very large one using broken old shed panels to contain our muck heap (and keep our dogs off!!).
http://www.gardenersworld.com/how-to/projects/basics/how-to-build-a-compost-bin/87.html (http://www.gardenersworld.com/how-to/projects/basics/how-to-build-a-compost-bin/87.html)
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Ok dense question :dunce:
How do you go one all in one go? Do you store the material up somewhere else. Ours is filled with kitchen scraps and garden waste. Could I get a pallety one (I'm confident that is the technical term :innocent:) and then transfer the stuff from my Dalek into that to do an all in one go - removing any non-compostable stuff I have in there.
Thanks guys
Dans
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I agree with what everyone has written. A bin made of pallets is affordable and effective and if the OH is worried about its looks - well, let him paint the outside a jolly colour :thumbsup:
For filling it up all in one go, I have found that you can in fact fill it up bit by bit then once it's full scrape it all out, then turn it as you refill and add 'activator' ie urine (which you can collect for a few days before hand) and grass clippings to each layer. That will heat it up and you will reach the temps you want. Maybe your neighbours would like to give you their grass clippings, but make sure they haven't used any chemicals on the lawn.
Leave out woody stalks and if you add citrus peel make sure it goes right in the middle as it rots more slowly than other stuff.
And always travel with a bag and a small shovel, in case you find horse droppings in the road........ :roflanim: :eyelashes:
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i spend a day gathering it all up, do loads of strimming etc, then add a good load of straw and horse/sheep/pig/chicken manure, add paper, cardboard etc, i used to do layers of stuff but russ correctly pointed out it doesnt rot down as well so i mix it all up now. you can fill a heap one day, then keep adding as it sinks down. you dont want it too dry.so add water. i use sheep dagging stew!
i made about 1/4 ton this year like this.
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Excellent, thank you all :trophy:
This and raised beds shall be my next gardening challenge
Very last question. I looked at the link and the sides of the pallets didn't seem to be lined, do they need to be or does this help it breathe? And is a bit of old carpet good for the top.
Dans
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dont line the bin, you need as much airflow as possible to allow the bacteria to fix nitrogen out of the air, carpet isnt ideal as most of it degrades, a bit of board or heavy black plastic over the top. hessians good too.
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You can do a bit of woodwork and move the inner slats to fill in the gaps on the outside, or cannibalise some more pallets. There's still enough air for the heap to breathe. Turning it will add more air.
Stinky old felted fleeces are great for covering the heap.
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Ok, very very last question. Where on earth do you get pallets from? I've been googling but mainly seems to be large companies providing to hauler companies.
Didn't see any on Gumtree. Going to post on my local freegle/freecycle.
Dans
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Try factories around the area. They pay to have pallets taken so are glad for a free clear out ;)
We get a constant supply this way which has built full fencing around allotments, compost bins and a chicken coop as well as keeping the log stove burning ;D ( until we pulled it out to replace 3weeks ago, just in time for the freeze :rant: )
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Pallet compost bins are brilliant. We have several just tied together with bale string at the corners. If you ask at your local garden centre or feed supplier they will have a stack of "broken" or odd sized pallets that the have trouble getting rid of and will be only too glad for you to take some away.
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I find you need 2 compost bins because it needs turning regularly. If you turn it to introduce air it will break down much more quickly.
Never had a problem finding pallets while driving through industrial areas - just ask - they are normally happy to get rid of them.
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I'd give putting kitchen scraps that have food waste in them in it or you'll have rats, veg peelings are ok but not leftovers. Check round local building sites for pallets OH is a builder and we have loads which get used for all sorts of things. I seem to remember a book on building things with pallets was out a while ago :thinking: feel an xmas pressie coming on............
Mandy :pig:
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You need to wee on it Dans - easier if a man does it of course ;) - uria helps 'bite' into things and break them down quickly. Introduce some worms too, they will help break things down and create air tunnels which is good. Good compost is most satisfying :D
Pallets from most factories around your area - or if you see a building site they would probably have some from brick / cement bag deliveries, might even deliver them to you for a couple of monies.
Enjoy your muck.
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I hadn't been putting in cooked things that I realised. But may have been inadvertantly. Had been putting bread (didn't think about it having been cooked), waste from making hawberry sauce and various wines. So they may have been attracting the slugs and messing with the mix.
We have an industrial estate down the road, and will be going to the garden centre next week for the tree (hoepfully) so will hit both of those places. Thank you all I really had no idea where to look.
Lots of websites around with ideas for pallets too Fowgill. Also seem to be a fair few websites suggesting upcycling pallets are dangerous (disease and chemicals used to treat wood), but they do seem to be mostly USA.
Dans
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. Also seem to be a fair few websites suggesting upcycling pallets are dangerous (disease and chemicals used to treat wood), but they do seem to be mostly USA.
Dans
Have to admit they don't half burn well when damaged ones are added to the bondi so they must be sprayed with preservative.
mandy :pig:
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Have to admit they don't half burn well when damaged ones are added to the bondi so they must be sprayed with preservative.
mandy :pig:
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I probably wouldn't use them for things like beds or tables, anything that will contact food prior to eating or baby things (saw one thing for a cot). But have not been put off using them for garden things as of yet, though I'm learning new things everyday!
Dans
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Mens pee is better than ladies , but don't use if the person is on any meds . About 90% of meds go through the body untouched , the main one in women is the pill , take care !
The same goes for stable manure etc . Horse wormers you don't want on the veg bed !
Worms will find their own way into the heap , but if you do add any do it after the heap has heated and cooled , otherwise they will just get cooked .
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Ah that makes sense. Will convince the OH to provide the pee, he's fit as a fiddle!
Didn't think about wormer. Will have no idea if the stable manure will have wormer in it.
Worms is one of the few things our garden is great at!
Dans
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Drugs and chems are a nightmare Dans . Farm manure can have antibios and all sorts of chems/drugs you don't want on your veg bed and thus in your veg ! You just have to ask where it comes from , and i don't mean the horses or cows bum ! lol .
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Don't know about your council, but ours had the large green plastic compost bins on offer, too (much cheaper than through normal trade, and at least they are made from recycled plastic). They provide the necessary critical mass for compost making. So if you want something that looks more "civilised" ::) than pallets, or you can't get pallets, it might be worth having another look out for that. I opted for the green daleks because it all needs council's approval in a council house... (They can't have anything against what they themselves sell! Where I lived before I had a pallet construction - perfect.)
What I do is fill one bin over the year, and in spring empty it into my newest raised bed. This will provide growing space for anything that can deal with fresh compost, i.e. courgettes, pumpkins etc. The year after it'll be fine for onions and other stuff... I then start filling the now empty bin and leave the other in peace to break down. Usually I leave the top off for more air and some moisture, but put the lid on in periods of heavy rain.
I now have two large green bins on the go, plus an old black one (I agree, they are useless) for anything that I don't want to use too soon - weeds and other stuff that'll take longer to break down into harmless matter... And daggings really are fantastic in the garden - I have them mixed into the compost as well as mulch for fruit trees and bushes!
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Lots of websites around with ideas for pallets too Fowgill. Also seem to be a fair few websites suggesting upcycling pallets are dangerous (disease and chemicals used to treat wood), but they do seem to be mostly USA.
Pallets should have a code on them, usually a ear of wheat symbol and some letters and numbers. You should see a country code (eg UK) showing where it was manufactured but most importantly the last 2 letters tell you how it was treated.
All pallets are treated (mostly to ensure that any bugs or diseases in the wood are killed and not spread everywhere the pallet goes), in the US they tend to use chemicals to do this, in Europe it tends to be done with heat. If the pallet is stamped HT is means heat treated and should be chemical free. Not sure what the codes are for chemical treatment but I rarely see anything that isn't heat treated.
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That's a really useful tip Wullie. Many thanks!
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Animal manure is good in the compost bin as long as the animal hasn't been chemically wormed recently and there has always been controversy over whether male pee is useful and female's not. Mine(if anyone wants to know :-\ ) is diluted with water and poured carefully over any straw etc. in the bin.
In fact just straw and pee if you had nothing else would break down beautifully.
My compost bins are just four pallets tied together with my sisters' old tights!
The secrets you divulge on here :o :o
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That's a really useful tip Wullie. Many thanks!
seconded! cheers.
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I got pallets from our local builders' yard. They burn a lot of them. Manure is a good accelerant.
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Jo Jacobs - Build it with pallets. £6.99 from Amazon.
You will need a pallet stripping bar too. fantastic tool from Cargo Cycles
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Jan '13 Kitchen Garden magazine, out now, has a 'how to build a compost heap' feature. Their one is made with bought wood but could easily be made from dismantled pallets :garden:
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that pallet tool is a tool I need MAK
this is a demo
Pallet Dismantling/Stripping Bar® by Cargo Cycles™ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipQLy-0Pfag#)
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The chap who makes them is still a one man band despite sales all over the world. We received ours in the post and it took Chris longer to unwrap it than it took her to strip her first pallet. She got carried away and stripped the ones I wanted to use to make a wall within a barn.
Compost - as said earlier the key is to get the temperature up and maintain water content. It is hard work turning a cube of compost 1 meter square BUT the tip I would share is to site your compost in a space that allows you to turn it without disturbing veg next to it. The 3 bin method is good as you can turn stuff as you move down the bin chain after emptying the "ready" bin.
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That does indeed look like a handy tool.
Our pallet compost bins work like this. It's winter now so not much happening apart from one being topped up with veg peelings, tea bags etc, and dirty chicken bedding. Will just keep adding to this one till it's full or spring comes around whichever is soonest. We have two bins that have been filled and turned a couple of times and left to stew over winter. Hopefully these will be good stuff by the spring and will go into the polytunnel and the raised beds. A further bin is full but will need turning and a bit longer to mature. In the spring when we start cutting grass etc I'll turn the bins that have over wintered and mix in some grass cuttings which will get some heat going and finish them off quite quickly I hope. Then the spring and summer regime of filling the bins and turning starts again.
The beauty of pallet bins is this. When you need to turn the contents you just dismantle the bin, re-assemble it next to the old one and fork it over. Bloody good exercise too.
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Must confess to the lazy way of making compost... we just put all the pig poo & straw and garden debris in a huge heap and OH turns it with the JCB bucket 2 or 3 times a year ground permitting, two years worth of rotted pig poo & straw makes marvellous compost and last year used it to fill all my pots and hanging baskets, got the odd weed thro but lovely moist crumbly stuff.
Mandy :pig:
forgot to say that in the interim year we grow pumpkins on the heap whilst we start another one.
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I am very impressed with the pallet tool. How much strength and grip does it need?
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Sylvia _ Chris is quite petite and she tells me that she is not strong. She did not struggle at all despite those orrible nails they use to secure pallets. One pallet did split a bit and the wood no use for making things. She breaks up the pallets and i cut them down for the job in hand.
I suggest that it is worth inspecting and selecting the better quality wood before nicking your pallets.
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Check out " The Berkley 18 day hot composting method." it works exceedingly well .
I use seven dalek type compost bins form the local authority and have a fantastic success using the Berkley method .
There are lots of links in the site that will give you loads of info as to carbons to nitrogen ratios you need for making fantastic compost .
The turning allows air to give oxygen to aerobically convert the materials & the extra the moisture added helps the bacteria and fungi that break the materials down multiply a zillion times thus releasing valuable nutrients Using the hot composting method means that the moisture droplets containing the nutrienty etc are absorbed by the dessicating matter so stay there till put on the gardens .
Old fashioned open to the elements air manure /compost heaps lose a lot of nutrient into the soil thay stand on.