The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Mrs Snoodles on October 18, 2012, 08:26:55 pm
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::). We are reliant on IBC's located next to the pig paddocks. The water within the IBC's should be fine, unless we get a shockingly cold prolonged spell. The turning tap mechanism is a problem for us, it jams when frozen. We wrapped towels and bubblewrap etc around them last year, which sort of worked but I don't think would stand up to a long spell of cold weather.
We are considering pre filling some IBCs located in barns as a back up which would probably do but I just wondered what everyone else does?
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Thanks for posting this, sorry I don't have a solution ::) but we use IBC's as well so looking forward to some suggestions.
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What are IBC's?
Beth
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the big white plastic cubes that you can get to store water in!!!
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We use IBC's too. Haven't had a problem so far if ice does form in them it seems to be at the top of the water. As for preparing for winter it's not much different to the summer here in monsoon land aka North Wales.
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Our 2 IBC were outside last winter and are now deformed after freezing solid. How cold will it get this year?
I am not going to move them into the barns but will empty them when the temperature drops. I just have to hope that we mains water when it goes below zero degrees.
Last year our water meter ( under a barn in a cellar that should not freeze) exploded with the cold - was replaced it but the pipes in the barn remained frozen for 2-3 weeks after. Inside the barn we lost our lemon tree, a water pump and a pressure washer that had residual water left in them. Amazingly the cider froze in plastic bottles but tastes great.
I carried water from a tap in another barn and melted snow on the stove - some days the animals/birds water froze within just a few minutes.
In short - I do not expect to be able to use the IBCs when it gets very cold but hope that all the insulation I have put around the water meter, pipes and taps means that we have water in the house and near to the pigs and birds.
A 1000 litre block of ice takes a few weeks to defrost ! :sunshine:
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try smothering the tap mechanism in vaseline, making sure you get it in all the joints etc :fc:
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We're on mains but hoses & taps do freeze despite lagging, so we end up lugging watering cans & buckets from the house in bad weather anyway. I think a back up IBC in the barn will have some protection and additionally covering it with a tarpaulin or bubble wrap or stack bales round it will hopefully mean your assets stay liquid!
Mandy :pig:
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Vaseline......!!! That should do it, a very simple solution. Brilliant...thanks
As for covering the IBC's themselves I'm looking into waterproof insulating materials and seeing if I could knock something together on my sewing machine - a big cover or something.
We are also considering tacking carpets onto the tin sow arcs but are a bit unsure about it. If the carpets get wet, they will surely just hold the cold (?). Are we best of keeping these as flappy doors and making sure the arks are stuffed with straw.
I guess there is no simple solution unfortunately. Just hard work.
Chatting to some old pig guys that had an indoor unit, they told me how much trouble they had with an underground piping system. In cold winters it would freeze and stay solid so there job, for days on end, was just to literally keep hauling buckets of water around in the unit. Literally all day. Water was critical to weigh gain, and at very worst, lack of water kicked off salt poisoning.
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Making an insulated jacket for an IBC is a heck of a challenge but i guess it is worth it if it saves you lugging water.
Do you live in the North ?
What about carpet - bubble wrap - wrags/clothes then a waterproof over the tanks?
We will not be overwintering pigs this year. T think last years low temperatures were exceptional ( -20 and dip of -25 that we did for 2-3 weeks) but we can expect cold and snow and I will be moving the duck houses inside the barn as soon as I have finished off the outside door and a fenced area outside for them. How they survived outside in their hutches last year I don't know.
Best of luck with the insulation challenge.
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It would be quite easy to insulate an IBC. A couple of rolls of loft insulation then shrink wrap the whole thing maybe? Or some of the thick polystyrene sheet they use in cavity walls? Straw? Knit it a jumper? And at least if the ground's frozen solid you'll be able to move it easier so you could get it inside a building if you're lucky enough to have one.
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We use a very low wattage submersible electric heater in our well for when it gets really cold top make sure we can have a supply of water in the house. I’m sure you could use one in an IBC either on a float or dropped down to the bottom near the tap fitting.
They are pretty inexpensive to buy and run and only warm the water slightly (not hot). I think they were originally designed for keeping a patch of domestic koi ponds free from ice in the winter.
With added insulation this should just about keep it free running at least. Loft type insulation is pretty cheep as it’s subsidised. Go to the nearest bed warehouse and ask if you can have a couple of old plastic bags the mattresses are delivered in, put the insulation in the bags and wrap the whole lot around the tank. Clean, efficient and not too costly plus a little recycling.
Vaseline on the fittings will help but a silicon based grease may work better with plastics and rubbers used in valves. The valves are not particularly designed for multiple uses so if you have a better valve you can fit in line and just leave the one from the IBC open it will be even better.
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Artscroft reply is why this forum is so good. Great suggestions.
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alot to think about here. I hope others find it useful too :) thanks everyone
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I wrap a couple of cheap double bed quilts round my IBC then cover the lot with a tarpaulin so that it is waterproof works great for me.
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I wouldn't worry about insulating the arks as long as they have plenty of straw they will be fine.Year before last we had -18 and one of the sows farrowed outside[not planned] and everyone was fine. Tough old things pigs. Just seen a big soft plastic container you put in the wheelbarrow and then fill it, has a lid so no water lost and you just tip barrow to fill buckets. Will get one and try it this year, usually lost half the barrow of water by the time I get to the pigs.
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.... a big sealed bucket thing would be a decent thing to have on hand. When the outdoor tap freezes or the up pipe ices up, it will be good for getting water from indoors.
We only had a fortnight of cold weather last year, but the two years before that were pretty bad. I know I'm on for a pick axe hack into the troughs in the mornings, which is easy enough, it's just the refilling issues. Having back up plans really.
Fingers crossed it'll be mild, although I LOVE it when we are snowed in for the odd day. So beautifully quiet.
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Just wanted to ....we've brought a pair of seal waterproof, ultra grip gloves. Horsey friends have recommended them for being absolutely ace when you have to plunge your hands into troughs to pull out ice, that's the bit I dread :'( being the wuss I am!
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Just wanted to ....we've brought a pair of seal waterproof, ultra grip gloves. Horsey friends have recommended them for being absolutely ace when you have to plunge your hands into troughs to pull out ice, that's the bit I dread :'( being the wuss I am!
You have to stay warm though - it's a hundred times worse doing the rounds if you're cold & wet :thumbsup:
Our plan for this year is to bring everybody in to the shed during the worst of it - it makes it easier for us really, early morning and late night feeds can be done with light (providing my OH's tame sparky will come and plug us in after checking out my handywork ;)) and on level footings and we know, without doubt that they're all snug & dry. We're also hoping that the heat they generate will help keep the water pipes flowing ;) :fc:
I've seen the barrow bags - they look the business :thumbsup:
My recommendation is for pull on cleats that go over your boots and give extra grip on ice - I got some 2 years ago and they're a godsend (and work on slippy mud too ;)) Cost about a tenner but priceless for the reassurance and lack of falls :relief:
Plenty straw and carpets or vynil strips on arc doorways (but please remember to have other ventilation too !) Veggie oil in the pigs water stops it freezing as much/makes it easier to break up I think.
Let's hope winter is kind to us when it comes :fc:
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Hi folks,
Some great discussions going on here! My 2p worth follows :)
Submersible Heater:
There's some more info on this later on in this thread (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=11504.0). The disadvantage is you need electricity, but if you do have that, you're laughing! I used a 50W aquarium heater two winters ago to great effect for the hens. It was this model and cost me all of £8 delivered from Ebay.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/50w-Aquarium-Tropical-Fish-Tank-Heater-Stat-With-Guard-/10/!B6+lEWg!2k~$(KGrHqF,!jUEzKMW-kJMBMy9sitgCw~~_1.JPG)
For an IBC, you'd just drop it down inside, and try and get it near to the valve to stop that from freezing.
You can also get anti frost trace-heating tape for pipes, which you could wrap around the valve and base to keep it from freezing. More details here (http://www.ezeheat.co.uk/fsk.pdf), other suppliers are available!.
In the end, we went for a frost free tap, instead of trace heating. It's as yet unproven, but I think it will work fine. More details on this thread (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=28353.0).
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j216/Blutack/TAS2011/3.jpg)
Just thinking aloud, pigs give off quite a bit of heat. Couldn't you strap one securely to the IBC to stop it from........ ok, maybe not! ;D
Insulation:
For an IBC, how about a few thicknesses of bubble wrap cut to make a jacket, then join with duct tape?
Slippy shoes:
My Mum (bless!) gave me some of those elasticated shoe cover thingies last Christmas, but basically they're just a hard abrasive pad glued onto some rubber. I tried glueing sandpaper onto the bottom of some old shoes, but that wasn't a great success ;D . Does anybody know where I could get a rigid plastic board with a rough surface from?
I have a runner friend at work who drives short versions of these screws into the soles of his shoes for winter running.
(http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00DvKEOsegZTiW/Slotted-Hex-Head-Self-Tapping-Screws.jpg)
It's the raised bits of the screw heads that give the grip. I guess you'd have to get the length right, or it's going to be painful ;D . However, I've saved an old pair of wellies to try it on, and I'll report back once we get some decent ice!
Hands:
I tend to wear these gloves in the winter, and they work ok. They don't last forever, but they're only £1.20 a pair from Screwfix, so that works out alright. They sell a longer version for £2.50 too.
(http://s7g3.scene7.com/is/image/ae235?$p$&layer=0&size=281,281&layer=1&size=281,281&src=ae235/17946_P)
OK, too many photos! I really need to get back to work now! ;D
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Save yourself foot ache from the screws Womble - buy some of these instead ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ice-Grips-Snow-Ice-Cleats-Flat-Shoes-Shoe-Grip-Anit-Non-Slip-Stud-Crampons-NEW-/160656768447?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Climbing_Mountaineering&var=&hash=item2567e3bdbf (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ice-Grips-Snow-Ice-Cleats-Flat-Shoes-Shoe-Grip-Anit-Non-Slip-Stud-Crampons-NEW-/160656768447?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Climbing_Mountaineering&var=&hash=item2567e3bdbf)
:thumbsup:
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Cold feet in wellies? If you know anyone who does watersports ask them if they have an old wetsuit they might be chucking out. Cut yourself some insoles from the neoprene they're fantastic.
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Lined neoprene wellies are super. Especially with added wellysocks
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Some great posts here and "fuel" for thought. However it was so s-din cold here last year I am seriousley thinking of putting all the stock in the freezer, hanging up my snow boots and setting the alarm for every hour each night so I can flush the loo or turn a tap on so that water does not freeze in the pipes.
Imagine a 1000 litres ice cube (IBC) or the anuimals/birds water freezing within minutes. Not sure all the great tips and new info above can help. Feeling pesimistic now so I am off to apply a layer of goose fat and roll in duck feathers before putting on my combo undies for the winter - see you in April.
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OK, have fun MAK. Don't forget to post some photos! ;D