The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Pets & Working Animals => Dogs => Topic started by: anderso on October 18, 2012, 04:33:52 am
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can you help - our collie has a fear for loud noise thunder, fast jet/helecopters etc. he runs under cover and cowers - any ideas to help would be great.
he is a rescue and we have had him for 2 years it has taken that time to get him here and we would like for him to be able to have a live with out loud noise fear.
time is not an issue.
Thanks form Spey
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This isn't going to be the most reassuring but I have had two dogs with this fear, a collie and a collie-lab cross.
They got a bit more 'chilled' as they got older but not a lot.
I suppose it's a fairly sensible fear - usually something noisy is also big and fierce.
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Oh!, he is so beautiful and reminds me so much of my beloved border collie who was also nervous of loud noises. Not thunder but if you broke a stick against a tree or dropped a pan etc. It was something he learned to live with but never really came to terms with.
I think it helps to stay calm and if he sees you taking it in your stride may reassure him.
And, if ever you feel you can't keep him............ :D :D
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Noise phobia isn't nice for a dog :-\ but it can usually be helped to a certain degree. There is a good cd on the Market with a booklet of instruction to help. The company who make the Adaptil pheromone products do this cd. It is called Sounds Scary.
I went on a talk by this company about noise phobia which was very interesting. They slowed down fireworks and thunder noise and turned the volume right up seconds before we would hear it. We heard what a dog hears which also is the sound of a washing machine about to spin or an electrical appliance about to start, and the sound at the point a stick snaps. All these sounds start with exactly the same tone and is why many dogs with sound phobia can be seen to fear all of these.
The cd is part of the therapy. The therapy is a slow process and unfortunately, now is not the time to start it as ther is to be no fright noises for a few months of therapy. No thunder or fireworks etc.
You can probably get info on google, but beware, there are poor imitations of these CDs which could do more harm than good.
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We had a very confident retriever who would insist on going outdoors and hiding under a certain bush, even before the thunder started. Think that one is fairly common for dogs. Not sure of a cure. I think I read somewhere to not show that you were concerned or make too big a deal about their reaction ..... not to over-fuss .... as it would reinforce their behaviour. Never had to deal with that problem much.
He is a lovely lad :love:
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I have seen some sort of jacket that you can buy that is supposed to help but i have no idea if it works.
I guess I am lucky. We had terrible thunder and lightening here yesterday evening and my dog just slept through it. ;D
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The jacket is a thundershirt - quite expensive and works on some dogs but not others. You can make your own body wraps which some say can help (google Tellington Touch). You can try herbal remedies, Adaptil, cd's etc. I am going to be doing the same shortly as my new foster collieX has the same issues. (Within half an hour of him arriving at our house for the first time we had an almighty thunderstorm! - he seems to have forgiven me:-) )
Make sure that your dog is chipped and tagged just in case he runs off in fear, and if he has a safe hideyhole, eg under the stairs - don't drag him out just leave him there until its over. I found with a gun nervous setter pup that the answer was just to ignore bangs and she has got a lot better. I had previously tried counter conditioning with a cd - e.g. loud bangs = sausage , this just made it worse and put her off sausage!!
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My bc is scared of loud noises and sneezing
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I did some reiki with the local Dogs Trust centre, helping to tackle some of the issues that some of the dog's had - stress, anxiety, depression, hyperactivity etc. In about 90% of cases there was an improvement. :thumbsup:
If you've got someone local who does reiki and will work with dogs give them a try, failing that I'm more than happy to send reiki to Spey, but you'll need to pm me your location (not exact, just village and county) and a time when he's most likely to be lazing around - if BC's ever laze around ;) :D
It certainly won't do any harm and might just help :fc:
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I have no reassurance to offer, sorry, except that he'll become more deaf as he ages and then it gets better.
Some people use Rescue Remedy or veterinary sedatives when they know there're going to be loud noises - Nov 5th etc - but that doesn't help with the unexpected, I know.
A safe bolt-hole he can always get to is a must for him, poor boy.
I have always assumed that working collies are pretty much unconsciously bred for good hearing - a good collie needs to be able to hear directions on the hill, and that command is often by whistle, so is high-pitched. It's the good workers that get bred from, so the hearing gets better and better over the generations.
I have had several collies react to the military jet engines, and the moorland farm was a key waypoint for the RAF so we'd get jets flying over and turning over us pretty frequently. Ted used to serenade them with his lovely collie song... :love: :dog: :innocent:
Collies around here have to be robust about bangs; we've a military base nearby does explosions regularly - they literally rock the houses, never mind collies' ears. :o
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thanks for the info, his blot hole is beside the bed,
will just keep working with him. and enjoying him and his actions..
sorry jaykay - life would not be worth living even if I thought to move him on......
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Collies around here have to be robust about bangs; we've a military base nearby does explosions regularly - they literally rock the houses, never mind collies' ears. :o
And round here - Salisbury plain isn't too far away and for some reason the preferred route for millitary choppers on night training is right over my bloody house, down the road and back along the A-road at the top - same almost every time...
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sorry jaykay - life would not be worth living even if I thought to move him on......
? I'm being a bit slow.....?
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Sorry jaykay I am having a bit of a problem with one of my eyes and put you down instead of sylvia
we have fast jets and helecopters flying over the cottage on route to the exercse zones plus transports
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No worries, I thought I was being dim as usual :D
We have a bombing range, almost out of human hearing but Skye hates it, disappears under the table and peers out at me :-*
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I would try clapping over the dog, start when it can see you do it, then build up to doing it as a surprise, do this at odd times, during normal walks, meals etc. Then get someone else to smack two pieces of wood together to make a loud crack ( flat wood not sticks ) Have them stand away from you / the dog when they do it. Gradually build up like that to bin lids at a distance or whatever works for you. All this constantly reinforced with praise and treats alternately. Hold the dog gently if needed to stop it shying away, if at any time you feel it's too much go back a step or rest for a couple of weeks and try again.
That last bit is very important !
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Red Dog is noise phobic, and if I was to clap over her she would wet the floor instantly bless her!
My recommendations;
ALWAYS ALWAYS have visible ID on your pupper. Red Dog bolted once on hearing a firework (in August >:( ) and ran to the nearest house. They phoned immediately but said it was the 1st dog they found wearing a tag :o
I put TWO tags on mine, then if I can't see them I can follow the jingling ;)
A microchip is IMO a must.
Walk only in daylight around Guy Faukes.
Play Green Day.... This is the only thing to help Red Dog when the noise is actually happening?? No Idea why, but the American Idiot Album at a reasonable volume and she will sleep soundly in her bed???? Without she is a weeing, dribbling, shaking, dig through the floor mess :dog:
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But with respect Colliewoman, I was trying to offer some constructive advice on how you might re train a dog.
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I can't remember if you have collies, Moleskins?
But I have to say, the person he trusts clapping over a collie dog who is scared of loud noises isn't something I would recommend, sorry. It may work better on a Lab or terrier, I'm not sure, but with a collie, the dog would likely then be scared of loud noises, you, hands, and possibly never trust a human that isn't in a straight jacket ever again. ;) :D Call them neurotic if you will - everyone always says genius is next to madness, eh! :D
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just to say Spey has been chipped and also has id tags on and as there are not too many places around most people know him as the one that only barks at them it they come in the garden.
he stays a distance away from people until he feels he can trust them. he had a really bad time where he was before we took he away from it, (he did not speak for the first week) so we will just keep on looking after him and maybe one day the noise will not affect him to much.
he like looking after the chickens and ducks (sometimes I think he beleives he's their dad)
Thanks for all the infomation and support for spey
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All the collies I've had (4) have in varying degrees been irrationally frightened of something, ranging from people with walking sticks or Zimmer frames who walk hunched over but not those who walk straight up, little children, strong winds etc, but all have been scared of loud noises, I read somewhere that it is a breed characteristic that they can develop these fears and its do with them being bread to be obsessed with things I.e sheep, mind my second collie, jess, was scared of sheep at first, IMO is cos they're so clever,
I once had a horse that was scared of puddles - that's pretty irrational too, so it's not just dogs, and I'm scared of cows and wasps as well
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But with respect Colliewoman, I was trying to offer some constructive advice on how you might re train a dog.
I apologise I did not mean for it to sound as though I was saying you were wrong, but sharing the possiblitity of what may happen. Certainly what would happen with one of mine. With my other collie Pilot the world could explode and he wouldn't worry :D
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Some of the above comments seem take us full circle to the old problem of breeding and the problems that have been bred into dogs.
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I think with border collies its not that faults have been bred in, but they have been bred for a very specialised job in a unique environment. They need excellent hearing to hear their whistle commands at great distance on the fells. They don't need to be good with strange people, strange dogs, loud noises, hectic activity etc.. because they would never encounter it on a farm in the hills. So the problems start when we put them in an environment that they weren't bred to cope with :-(
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I agree completely Shep :thumbsup:
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The dogs ability to withstand loud noises can also be trained into them. I have participated in working trials. The dogs must be calm to the gun as a test. Criminal scenarios are used to test courage and the dogs must hold their nerves against men running at them shouting and waving 'weapons'. Sometimes the scene involves articles being crashed and banged. Always there is an escaped criminal which must be caught by the dog and held until told to release.
Guess which breed has won the uk championships over the last 4-5 years........ Yes, that noise phobic collie ;D and by gosh can they take criminals down :o with shear speed as they chase and jump for the arm.
Of course the german shepherd is always the next best breed :love: but sometimes way down in 4th or 5th, collies making the top scores ::)
(actually a lab won the championship last year. The other 3 were collies. No GSDs in the top 4 :'(. Considering this was a GSD competition at one time )
The results still show a collie can withstand loud noises when trained. The CDs I mention are very good for training. Starting from quiet noise and gradually increasing to full volume over months.
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I think some breeds have a tendency to be more nervous/highly strung than others but upbringing and training probably plays a part as well.
A gundog that is gun shy would probably be trained by a sort of exposure technique similar in principle to that described by Moleskins. A starting pistol would be fired a field away and then gradually closer over a period of time (dictated by the dogs response). This does work and my retriever was initially afraid of thunder, fireworks, jets and gunfire but is fine with all noise now. However he was also brought up in a family, as a house dog and very confident around people and in most situations.
If this lad was a rescue he may never have lived in a house, seen many people, been exposed to much noise, etc. and do think that many collies (not all) have a tendency to be a little nervous. He may well improve to some extent just by living as part of a loving family and hearing lots of household noise eg. vacuum, pots and pans and being taken lots of places. Think you would have to be very careful that he didn't associate people with the unpleasant noise.