The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: jameslindsay on May 25, 2009, 02:37:00 pm
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One of my girls(kakhi campbell) has gone missing. They were all out on the river from early this morning and now I have them all back on land except 1! I have been to the other side of the river and away down the embankment and there is no sign of her. I will keep looking.
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Do you have foxes around, James? They do strike in daylight too.
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We do have a fox according to locals. I have looked everywhere I can and there is no trace of her. There was a group of swans and mallards there this morning so perhaps she has took off with them. There are no signs of feathers etc anywhere along the river bank which is a good sign, I hope.
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Hope she turns up soon James.
JD
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Thanks, still no sign of her. I really wish I knew what had happened to her. This has never happened to me before but when I made the decision to allow them total free range, and access to the river, I knew there was always the chance that something like this could happen. The other 2 left in her group are a bit "strange" without her.
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One of my ducks has spent an occasional night out. They go down to the brook to swim and I am sure that she lays eggs down there somewhere. I can tell when she is going to do that as she runs out of the cote in the morning like she has been fired out of a cannon! The drake then comes back alittle while later and stands waiting for her to come back all day. I usually shut them up earlier as she will come back for food in the evening but will disappear again if I do not shut them up. I once spent hours looking for her and could not find her but she was waiting for me at 7 am for food and then went off again. :&> Hope your duck comes back soon. I spent all night worrying about mine. :'(
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Thanks, I am now a hen missing so total PANIC here now.
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We have now searched high and low and are now missing 1 duck and 1 hen. There is not even sign of any feathers left lying around and all the other animals seem calm and normal so no sign of them having been spooked. I am so at a loss as this has not happened before and really don't know what to do for the best.
Tomorrow I will keep the ducks in their enclosure which they will not be amused with but needs must. The hens I could put in with the pygmy goats but they are now not used to being confined to such an area. What a god awful day.
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I hope someone is not taking them, there could even be a dog around..hope you find them it must be very upsetting but they have a good free life with you they WILL come back and if something has eaten them, they at least had a nice life.
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i dont want to worry but warn you... i lost 5 gosslings not a feather anywhere,,,, got some more and lost them this time heads everywhere... a fox
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My daughter also had her ducks and a chicken taken, no sign of duck feathers, they must take them away to eat!!!!
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Came out this morning half hoping/expecting to find the chook running about and the duck looking for her friends but nothing. What a shame, I now feel as though I did something wrong and it's my fault.
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what you did is to give these birds a near natural life with room to swim and wander. the only way to stop what happened is to pen them in with electric fences. but the ducks are far fitter and healthier swimming in running water......... i have a stream on my land i have used builders fenceing panels all along the stream about 18" into the water from the bank, they can swim but no fox access now but you also have to secure all the land with electric fence....i lost mine when i left the electric fence off.... all i can say is if this is your first lost it wont be your last, thats poultry keeping......... harry
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Just Nature, you are a fast food outlet for Mr Fox, see it from his point of view, anyway, they may well have gone off, especialy the duck as if they can roam they at least will have been able to fly away!!! Go and have a milky coffee, I've just had 3 cups of tea :(
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This is fox time, The vixens are looking to feed their young and will take more chances than they usually would. It doesn't really help being more vigilent anyway as the alternative is to shoot the vixen and thus starving her cubs which I wouldn't really want to do. That was one of the things that the local hunt was always insistent on - No hunting while the vixens were rearing pups. Nowadays we lose more hens and ducks AND vixens get shot anytime.
PS I am Neither PRO nor ANTI hunt
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I'm so, so sorry, James! You have nothing to blame yourself for. We all have to live with this constant threat to our birds. It could also have been something of the weasel family, like a minx. They also carry them away. This is high season for them all feeding and teaching their young. Could be people, too, helping themselves to a free lunch, hope not! did the hen disappear from your land? Maybe getting a camera for the enclosure would help to find out what's going on?
We have also have heard a fox the other day really close, I'm on high alert since, but can't be here all the time! :&>
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Thanks Kerstin, so far today all is well. As I said I have kept the ducks in but may just go and let them out. I can't keep them in their pen "just incase". I am very soft hearted when it comes to my animals and hate the thought of anything or anyone eating them. I am sure it has not been human involvement, the geese seem to be staying at home today which is odd but probably my imagination. See you later, I think now that very heavy shower of hail is over I shall let the ducklings out in their run.
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DONT KNOW WHAT SORT OF RUN YOUVE GOT BUT its got to be like Colditz to keep a fox out now they know where the food is.... trust me electric is the only way...
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also not trying to worry yea but
I had a hen taken about 4 months ago by a fox. decapitated her and left the body?? no problems until last week (so not sure about the if he knows theres food he will be back theory). Had 3 khaki campbells 2 female and 1 male. went out to lock them up last tuesday only to see a fox strolling by the back wall with one of them in his mouth. scared him and he dropped her. ran over she was still alive but had puncher wounds to her neck. ran back to the house wrapped her in a towel and went out to see what damage he had caused. was half expceting to go to the coop and find a bloodbath but not even a feather. the drake was down the bottom of the fields(never down there before) with what i thought was the other female. as i got closer the other duck flew away leaving me to try to coax the very nervous drake back up.as i was doing this the other duck landed in the next field so i went over to try to persude her to come back up but as i got closer i relised it was a wild duck (very strange as i never seen a wild duck on the land before) even stranger was that he landed right beside the body of my duck.when i got back up the chickens didnt seem 2 startled but i was minus my rooster. i went straight up to where i found the first hen that was killed (few months prior) and found once again a decapitated bird the body still there. the next day i had to bury 2 ducks and a rooster. there was very little duck feathers but where i found the rooster there was a feather fest. its the price we pay for free range but id have it no other way. such is life. saying that the chooks are on a 4 o clock curfew for last week.
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Been told today that there is a stoat on the river, so perhaps that is the culprit. As I said earlier something may not be right as the geese who normally spend most of their day on the water have been on our land almost all day. I am pleased to say that there have been no more losses today, long may that continue.
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So sorry to hear about your losses - over the years I have lost more chickens, ducks and geese to outside attacks than I can remember. One of the most common culprits that I have to deal with is the badger - I really don't like them too much!! The badgers tend to take away one duck at a time, and drag it through a hole in the fence - whereas whenever I have had a fox attack, it has left piles of feathers around the place. Have also had a visit from a stoat, as has a neighbour of mine, but they tend to take yougstock only, and to add to all of that, just recently, I have been visited by a sparrowhawk that pinched a couple of chicks from one of my broody hens in broad daylight!!!
Said hen now has only one chick left, and at feeding time yesterday, couldn't find the little one anywhere, and assumed that it had been taken as well. However, when I went out to lock up last night, there it was tucked up nice and warm under Mum - where it had been is anyone's guess!!
Chin Up - unfortunately, by letting our birds roam free and act naturally, we also have to contend with outside influences over which we have no control, short of miles of electric fencing!!
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Thanks, glad your chick turned up. I let the geese out this morning and off they went onto the river so I decided to let the ducks out too. I can only hope that nothing else goes but have to be prepared for it if I want them to have the great life they have here. I have decided to get another few chicks now and I still have some 4 weeks old Aylesbury ducklings that will in the next few weeks be big enough to get out of their secure pen too and roam with the others. Hope your chick survives. :)
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This afternoon I bought another 3 Isa Warrens POL. I decided that I would like a few more so I now have 6. They are settling in well, the others will soon accept them I hope.
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DONT get into a false sense of security having a curfew this time of year with cubs to feed you can see foxes anytime of day looking for food......
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Hi,
Seems we've all suffered from a fox attack at some time, about a year ago I was late returning after a rare day off the farm and when I went to close the chuck run I found total carnage; the fox had killed all 28, there was blood and feathers everywhere - I gathered up the carcasses but only found 14 birds in total - my neighbour reckoned it was probably a mother and cub(s). Over the next week or so they attacked three of my neighbours pens up and down the lane - finally we formed a shoot and shot and killed seven foxes over one weekend - quiet for a while now but still early days for this season.
Just a thought, do you know if you have any Minks around, they are just as deadly and they do tend to carry off their prey - hope you catch the culprit soon.
Regards, Farmer
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shooting 7 foxes is a little harsh me thinks
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shooting 7 foxes is a little harsh me thinks
7 foxes for 28 plus valuable birds - I don't think that's unfair at all!
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Down the bottom of the beer garden was covered in thick bushes which would give any predators the ideal hiding place so today made a start on thinning it out. The goats had a great time running around, getting in the way and eating anything they found tasty. The new hens got a bit of a hard time from the others but they should settle down soon - I hope.
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This morning Kenny saw a fox on our land - bold as brass and now we can't find Matilda, the Rhode Islnad Red Bantam.
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sorry to hear about all your bird problems james. It s a bad time of year for fox attacks we have lost 4 chickens so far, no sign of them at all, no feathers so we are assuming its the fox, our best layers too. The local gamekeeper has killed plenty of foxes as they were taking lambs locally. Its hard keeping them penned up when they are used to free ranging but its the only way till the danger is passed. Good Luck hope you find matilda.
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Thanks, Matilda has gone and won't be back I'm very sorry to say. Today again the geese are not happy chappies, they are staying on land and making a helluva noise. The ducks are in their pen, the ducklings in the shed and the hens now in the paddock with the Pygmy Goats. If this is how it has to be then so be it. Never had such a terrible week animal wise before.
I was always against Fox Hunting previously now I say they little buggers deserve all they get!
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I was always against Fox Hunting previously now I say they little buggers deserve all they get!
ah the classic "not in my backyard"
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[ah the classic "not in my backyard"
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I don't think there us any need for rudeness.
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im not being rude im sorry for your loss as i said earlier in this topic i lost 2 ducks last week but i dont blame the fox and to say that they deserve to be hunted/shot/poisoned just for doing what they do naturally in my opinion is a little harsh.
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Without wishing to unleash untold controversy, I fail to see how anyone who owns / has owned chickens / poultry, and has been the subject of a fox attack can possibly have an ounce of sympathy for them. For starters, we have had fox attacks resulting in numerous deaths, when we have hundreds of bunnies loitering but one acre away - sadly, my chickens are a far easier target - and therefore not that natural at all - naturally, they would have to chase to kill, not plunder the contents of a chicken house! Sorry - but I am not a fan of the fox..or the badger...or the sparrowhawk..or the stoat...or the weasel - all of which have at some point over the years filled their stomachs courtesy of my poultry!! By the way sorry to hear about Matilda - I love RIR's bantam or otherwise - a sad loss.
Also, my best fox prevention tip is my Golden Guernsey Billy Goat, Pippin. Whenever he is grazing around my chicken pens, a fox attack is as rare as rocking horse s***. I don't know if it's the smell that he exudes, or the fact that he is well used to my dogs, and will actively headbutt anything that he dislikes, but I worry about my birds considerably less when I know that he is out there keeping an eye on them..... Anyone else use a Billy as a chicken guard-dog??????
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Thanks, I have 3 male goats and a female wandering with the hens and ducks and often the 7 Pygmy's are out there too but sadly all the boys are neutered so they don't do the trick here.
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My GWP bitch used to be sent out last thing at night to ward of any marauders. Not only is she large but her bark would 'fear the deil', and she left her mark right around the whole perimeter of our land, and the neighbours'. Took her about half an hour every night. Never saw a fox in 10 years on our own place, but nearby farm shot a number of them on their various shoots. They just had poncy little collies ;D ;D ;D ;)
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I can't believe Mathilda is gone, James, she was such a lovely bird! I hope this is it now for you!
One's perspective towards predators just changes as soon we have our own birds to protect.
I still do not approve of fox hunting as a sport, though. I do not approve of reintroducing sea eagles in inhabited areas either.
:&>
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Sorry for your loss, I should imajine you are now on tenderhooks, I know I would be and are extra secure but like I said, it's nature, even humans are subject to preditors. I have read that male urine is just the same for marking the territory, maybe you should go out when knowone is looking and weeeeeeeeee everywhere around the perimitor ;) you could ask male guests to do the same, they also say hair clippings does the trick as well!!! In retrospect at least know one is stealing them as I know people do have lifestock stolen, anyway another day another dollar, or two :)
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yes, reading that, Sandy, I remembered that we had asked the local hairdresser for a bag of hair for the same reason: human smell - it is supposed to keep foxes out if you spread it all around your fence. Must pick it up soon! That might help you, James, do you have a salon in Guardbridge you could ask? :&>
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Not sure if the hair has to be male, think female hair is not powerful enough, all those dyes and products, although men use them as well I should imagine the male smell will come through as you know, you can tell a lot from hair!!! ::)
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Hi,
You can have some of my hair... at the rate that the magpie's are stealing our eggs I'm tearing it out anyway! (where's my gun?)
Farmer
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shame the guys don't have that much cut off usually...I have to take what I get, don't think the hairdresser is willing or able to separate genders! Farmer, we do have a large fence, how long is your hair? :&>
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Only around a couple of inches I'm afraid - but if you laid it end-to-end maybe you could at least cover a couple of feet or so - colour very light grey/white, so should show up in the moon light!
Must be good stuff, one of my pet goats always tries to take a nibble when he can, although just lately he's taken to eating the fleece off one of the rams - poor ram looks like he's been trimmed for a saddle - no idea why the goat does this, but the ram seems to enjoy it just as much - good job I don't sell the fleece!
Farmer
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We have a friend out cutting back all the over growth and he has just seen a fully grown male fox, he, like Kenny says it is a big beast. This afternoon we found a hole that is definately for fox. Our friend from Animal Welfare, Fife Council is trying to contact a Game Keeper friend of hers which will hopefully get rid of Mr Fox once and for all!
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Things look even worse this morning, a second fox has just been seen strutting aroound our land. This one is much smaller so probably the vixen, we are now on such tenterhooks. The good thing with this brilliant weather is the beer garden should hopefully have guests in it all day so the people will keep the buggers away! >:(
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It's still early for me but I am sure dogs are kept with herds of sheep to keep away fox's and also I think Llamas!! Maybe a HUGE MALE DOG kept with them from a pup, that is, when he is trained otherwise, the dog may have the lot!!!!
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Good bye Mr and Mrs Fox - tomorrow, all going to plan they will be no more.
Living with all these animals and knowing the fox are around is no fun. Earlier I shouted on Fred and Gizmo ( 3 month old BT Goats) and unusally they didn't come running and the 2 older ones were where I could see them. You instantly panic and fear the worst but at the same time know/hope that they are too big for a fox. After a 5 minute panic they came running to greet me, they had been up the back field having a nosey.
I put a parasol out in the Pygmy Goat enclosure earlier and they love it! Spoilt or what?
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I have a vison of your animals all in the sun and you running in and out with drinks and nibbles on a tray ;)
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Sandy you know they have a pampered life here ha ha ha.
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I can't wait to meet them all, James. Bet you pamper your guests too!
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Just been sorting out the fridge and mixed the contents all together, the chickens are enjoying, rice, haggis, sausage, jam, honey, cheese, wholemeal bread, tomato's, a few grapes, I could eat it myself ;D
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i wonder what will be Mr and Mrs Fox's last meal. A condemned couple.
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Just been sorting out the fridge and mixed the contents all together, the chickens are enjoying, rice, haggis, sausage, jam, honey, cheese, wholemeal bread, tomato's, a few grapes, I could eat it myself ;D
Can chickens eat these things without the eggs being tainted? Anybody know? If not I'll give mine a more varied diet in future; my poor things are deprived! ;) ;D
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Maybe there will be orphan cubs!! Oh dear :'( The funny thing is, I fels sooooo guilty putting snails and worms in for my chickens..
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Do you think Mr and Mrs Fox think about who is left behind when they have their dinner? It is a vicious circle Sandy it really is.
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the circle of life or the circle of death (by shotgun)
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That's the difference between human and animal - we have a choice, they don't! We have to look after our stock, they look after their cubs. We may think about it and feel sorry about the life we take (I had the thought about slugs and snail, Sandy, we're just softies!), they can't.
But regarding the birds' diet, I was wondering about which leftovers were ok for ducks, does anyone know? At the moment they just get some veg, occasionally bread. pasta, rice, etc., & egg shells. No other cooked stuff so far until I know better.:&>
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::)....gives me a chill.....reminds me of silence of the Lambs...............My daughter is on this forum and she had stuff eaten by Fox or foxes and one night her partner strung up the reminds of something...Duck or Chicken and waited, then shot at the Fox as it came back. My father in Law, a farmer, used to say that Fox's have been seen to take new born lambs as they are born and, as everyone knows, they do not always eat all their kill!!!
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we live in the countryside, wildlife is part of the countryside, i came out here to live with nature not to control components of nature that dont comply with my notions on how nature should be
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Nature usualy sorts out weaknesses!!
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evolution
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Diversity...They won Britains got Tallent!!!
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We just have the better weapons and ducks used to be able to fly before they "turned" domestic and had their wings clipped. Better not to get too emotional about it all but limit things to necessary damage, we have to protect our stock - I still don't approve of fox hunting for sport as for enjoyment. Causing suffering and enjoying it is sick. (Diversity is fun, lol.) What you say about foxes not finishing their dinner is a bit like a cat playing with a mouse. Not nice but they can't choose what they do. It's very strange to read "Fox Evil" by Minette Walters while we're discussing this! :&>
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Do you know, I am not against Fox hunting!!! It employs people in the countryside who would otherwise find it difficult to work, they do not actually kill loads of fox's, the alternative is the farmer or others shooting them as they run off and them dying of led shot wounds, with the hunt they at least have a bit of a chance to escape. The hunt is not all tofffs!! I knew many normal, poor if you like, people being involved with the hunt, basically it is no differnet from any killing of animals for eating or otherwise!!! Don't get me wrong, I love animals and Fox's are pretty and loyal animals but I see not argument against hunting at all, the hunt also pays to keep open access to farmers fields. I hate the thought of any country loosing it's traditions, cruel, well, lot's of things can be perceived as cruel, getting run over by a drunk driver, being knifed, eating a battery hen's egg!!!!
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im sorry but i just cant justify the killing of one life (in its natural enviroment) to secure the safety of another.
distinction being family
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I'm sorry but i just cant justify the killing of one life (in its natural environment) to secure the safety of another.
distinction being family
It's not their "natural environment" it is my back garden, my property and I never invited them to take up residence. I will do whatever is necessary to protect my animals.
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That's the difference between human and animal - we have a choice, they don't! We have to look after our stock, they look after their cubs. We may think about it and feel sorry about the life we take (I had the thought about slugs and snail, Sandy, we're just softies!), they can't.
But regarding the birds' diet, I was wondering about which leftovers were ok for ducks, does anyone know? At the moment they just get some veg, occasionally bread. pasta, rice, etc., & egg shells. No other cooked stuff so far until I know better.:&>
same as us really were using the hens for food whats the diffrence.
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"It's not their "natural environment" it is my back garden, my property and I never invited them to take up residence."
its a fox we are taking about not pikies.
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and if the Pixies ate my livestock they too would have to go...
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"It's not their "natural environment" it is my back garden, my property and I never invited them to take up residence."
its a fox we are taking about not pikies.
Even more bitching, the sun must bring you nutters out!!!!! I thought you Relic were going "off line", take that other fool with you and give the rest of us peace.
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Hi,
Killing a fox or any other animal that is preying on domesticated animals/birds that are usually confined to a territory/area is in my opinion justified - we have a moral duty to protect the animals/birds we raise and by necessity confine - killing just for fun or entertainment is abhorrent and cannot be justified, but killing to protect your stock (providing it is done humanely) is just another aspect of being a smallholder - personally, I would think that being shot must be preferrable to being eaten alive!
Farmer
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Nicely put, Farmer. I didn't want to roll up a whole new discussion about fox hunting here as nothing will change my mind about it, but of course their are lots of folk with a different opinion and they will keep on doing what they do no matter what I think. :&>
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If we take it further, how can you decided what animal can be killed and what should not be killed, ie, rats, mice, snails, pigeons, squirrals etc..... As far as I am concerned, who would have a preditor living in their garden when it is full of livestock, it would be silly!!!
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P.S, I love Foxes, loyal animals but I would have no hesitation to kill one if it was taking my stock, I would hope to protect the stock otherwise the poor things would be just like living in a fast food outlet....and my married name was Foxon, the family had a farm very near Foxton!!!!!
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If we take it further, how can you decided what animal can be killed and what should not be killed, ie, rats, mice, snails, pigeons, squirrals etc..... As far as I am concerned, who would have a preditor living in their garden when it is full of livestock, it would be silly!!!
Well said Sandy, as you know there are few people that care as much for their animals as myself. I too would never wish to cause pain to any animal but sometimes it is unavoidable, as in this case.
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James I wish you every success in removing these preditors from your land and you once again can offer all your animals a safe enviroment.
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No sightings of these buggers today and the geese seemed a lot calmer and spent most of their day on the river. The gamekeeper friend did not manage today but is coming tomorrow instead.
The ducklings are now staying at night in an old rabbit hutch, when Kenny went to put them to bed earlier 6 out of the 9 automatically took themselves off up the ramp themselves. This is the first night the ramp has been there, how clever is this group?
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I was not disputing that we do have to make that decision sometimes, Sandy - just the method and the attitude of fox hunting I do not agree with - taking joy in the suffering of the animal. Environmental health takes care of rats, the cat takes care of mice, the ducks take care of the slugs and caterpillars but if I can't protect my cabbages from pigeons and partridges, it's my own fault, lol.
Hope all goes well with your gamekeeper friend, James! I hope we won't have to ask for his number one day...
Thanks for looking after the birds so well - and for training them to go up the ramp! As they will want to go with the others they will already know how to do that...we'll see you on Tuesday, but do you mind looking after our wee ones for another week, please? I am just concerned about them going into the night quarters with the others and me not being able to keep them separate whilst they are small (ish) ? :&>
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Forgive me for jumping back into this thread, but I really must object to those who think that foxhunting is purely undertaken by those who enjoy witnessing the death of an animal. Living on the edges of Exmoor, I am surrounded by hunts, fox and stag. Those who hunt on a regular basis do not "enjoy" the kill, but rather, they enjoy the hunt, the day out, the riding across the moors etc..
At a wake for a now departed loyal hunt supporter just last week, I was chatting to one of the huntsman, and happened to mention that foxes were not high on my Christmas card list. His response was "you cannot possibly say that you hate an animal..." my answer was "yes I can, they are vermin who eat my poultry" - he said "well, that's generally what the hunt is for - control of vermin".....
Sorry to jump in - just my opinion on what I have witnessed, both as an observer, and as one who used to hunt, but can no longer do so, as having a smallholding, I can no longer afford the time off - especially during hunting season - i.e. winter.
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I have never hunted but was married to a farmers son and lived in a hunting area and knew lots of people who both worked with the hunt and united themselves, like all people you cannot generalise but all I knew were very fond of animals, in fact a good friend, a very well thought of hunt member, she bred horses as a teenager, she was a friend of mine then, anyway, I have known her to pay for veterinary care , while on a Holiday, for a stray dog she saw, she loved all her animals and looked after them really well. OK, a fox or more may suffer for a while but, as I said previously, it takes a good shot to kill a Fox so many just die of lead shot wounds, much worse than having a chance however little, we after all get killed by predators, fast cars, criminals, wars and overuse of chemicals......I love to see the hunt and in an ideal world nothing would get killed but is the world ideal?
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Morning Kerstin, it is not a problem to keep them here as long as you need to. They are really having a great time and I think they will miss their pals here once they are split up but as soon as they settle in with you they will be fine in no time.
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"Even more bitching, the sun must bring you nutters out!!!!! I thought you Relic were going "off line", take that other fool with you and give the rest of us peace."
no need for the personal insults Lovespigs. just having a discussion.
amadán
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Thanks, James, see you tomorrow!
Obviously and naturally we do have different opinions there and different experiences with the hunt and their members. I do not want to get into details, I only shared my conclusions with you. My opinion matters nothing to "The Hunt" as such, so maybe we'll leave it at that...:&>
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"Even more bitching, the sun must bring you nutters out!!!!! I thought you Relic were going "off line", take that other fool with you and give the rest of us peace."
no need for the personal insults Lovespigs. just having a discussion.
amadán
I think Sir perhaps you should take a leaf out of your own book before you go on to preach! There was no insult intended but it seems alot of what you pontificate is rather incensitive and downright rude at times. You seem hell bent on enforcing your feelings and opinions on others but are less than happy to let others do the same. Freedom of speach and all that.
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Thank you all for the passionate debate. We like freedom of speech here, but respect and tolerance have to come first and this thread is in danger of crossing that line.
You're all free to go and take this debate onto another forum, but from very close personal experience I'm fairly certain we're not going to find a neutral position on fox hunting in my lifetime.
Let's move onto safer ground, like religion or politics. ;)
Dan