The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Smallholding => Equipment => Topic started by: TheCountrySquire on September 20, 2012, 12:30:41 am
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First of all, hello everyone!
I've been browsing the forums for some time now, but decided to take the plunge today and actually register and take part! Anyway, I digress...
Basically I am in a bit of a predicament.
Moved to an old farmhouse with a few acres. Fields require a cut and fill exercise, but I can't work out if I should go the dumper route or the tractor and tipping trailer route to shift the muck...
Initially I was looking at buying an old 2 or 3 Tonne dumper with a budget of up to £500 (I have found one pending inspection/payment and collection), however, today I started to weigh up other options.
If I buy a tractor and tipping trailer, I can tow my livestock trailer to the market and tow my 3 tonne mini digger around to different locations. (I passed my test after 1997, so would need to take an additional test to tow behind the LR). Obviously my budget will increase, but to how much? Tipping trailers can be picked up for less than £300. However, when it comes to tractors, I really don't have a clue! What tractors would be capable and at what cost?
Just after a bit of advice really.
Thanks,
TCS
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Hi.
Good subject this, can give my opinion from experience ;-
1; Get a tractor because they a so versatile. But which one and how much ?
2; Buy a classic old British tractor because they were built to last and live outside, which they do. Which makes to look at ?
3; Massey Ferguson, very popular but over priced by thousands of pounds. Many asking 2/3/4 £1000 + for worn out things because some decent ones made that money. Fords are not far behind MF, try and find a Ford 3,4 or 5000 that has the same asking price and the engine is worn out or the tin work is rotten.
Cheaper end are David Brown, International and Leylands.
4. My preference to these tractors is the David Brown because I have had more success in buying a couple of good ones. It is a brilliant starter, turn 180 degrees in its own space and is very economical on fuel.
The key is to buy a decent 'survivor', not just a name and colour because a similar one is £5000 grand on E-bay or at Auction.
For a general all purpose machine that will do most basic jobs including road use, you need to be looking at 40 horse power and expect to spend over £2000. Off road work only then less than a £1000. There is a DB880 on Ebay as I write that I am watching for field work only but his start price at approx' £900 is to much. My start bid would be £500.
I have a 1978 David Brown 885 with a good cab and front loader. It had 2500 hours on the clock, a one owner from new. I gave 'strong' money for it but no regrets. Apart from oil and filters it has cost me nothing. This summer it has mown, bailed and carted hay trailers on the road. It is now hooked up to my potato digger after ploughing and sat out in the rain waiting for dry spells to lift spuds. Because of the loader I can also use it for my day job in town for pallets and heavy articles. But the loader comes off in 15 minutes ( including finding a space and setting up ).
Let us know how you get on.
Regards :tree:
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I'd hire in a 6 ton dumper, it will cost you about £120-£150 a week, it will be a lot faster and with a 3 ton mini digger you should be able to shift 150-200 ton a day depending on the distance it's got to be moved.
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Hi
I tend to agree with Odin on this one.
British Tractors are sought after as hobby or collectable machines, and as a consequence the price on the second hand market goes up.
When we moved into our place we had similar quandries, and we ended up hiring plant & driver (cost us £20 per hour plus fuel minimum of 8 hours) and we got loads done. This then took the pressure off buying a tractor (we did buy one eventually) but still enabled us to get stuff done.
For me, if you are not going to use the likes of a dumper or tractor on a regular basis, why buy one? You have all the maintenance & running costs to pay for and so on.
Give consideration to hiring stuff that way your money stays in your pocket etc etc.
Having said that, there is something about having a classic tractor in the barn, boys toys and all that !
Cheers
A (aka Scrumble The Goose)
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hello squire why are you wanting to do cut and fill
your 3 ton digger wont be able to get towed by a landrover digger plus trailer will be over the 3 and a half ton limit
a decent tractor with good brakes and a trailer braking system you will be able to tow up to 24 tons with a tractor and your present licence no additional test required
digits output with a 3 ton digger and dumper is a bit on the optimistic side far better with a 13 ton digger and no dumper :farmer:
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Thank you for all of the replies so far! :)
Firstly, I'd just like to add to/clarify my initial post, as I was in a bit of a rush when typing it and missed some important info - apologies!
RW - Digger is 2.7 tonne (w/out buckets/mud/fuel/oil etc) and trailer weighs in at 600Kg, so I'm just under the 3.5T limit (luckily), but obviously this doesn't help me with my non "B+E" licence :(, hence like you say, I'd be safer and legal with a decent tractor. I'd love a 13 tonne excavator, but funds don't allow unfortunately, - beggars can't be choosers and all that haha. Saying that, I missed out on a PC120 excavator not so long back for under £5k. The only thing that put me off was the sheer size and weight of the thing. There are some areas that my LR only just gets through plus I've quite a bit of tarmac/concrete yards dotted about the place which the tracks would ruin. Hmm, maybe I could do the delicate stuff with my 3 tonne, sell it, then buy a 12T+ for the cut & fill??? You've got me intrigued now haha!!!
Digits and Scrumble - Regarding the hiring of a dumper; it won't just be used for the cut and fill exercise. I've got quite a bit of work to do around other parts of the land also, so hiring one out on a weekly basis wouldn't be cost effective. I'll be needing one every week for the foreseeable future. Thanks anyway.
Odin - thanks for all of the info! It didn't occur to me that some were collectors items and others weren't. I assumed all the old machines were wanted by collectors. I'll keep my eye out for Fords, David Browns, Internationals and Leylands. The silly thing is, there is a IHC 1055 sat on the other side of our boundary, which a retired farmer doesn't use any more. It's a shame it is so big, otherwise I'd be asking if he'd like to sell it. I'm meant to be down at a local farm tomorrow evening, so may ask him if he knows of anything suitable for my needs.
I think I'm going to keep my options open to both dumpers and tractor and go from there. Although the latter is my preferred option.
Thanks again,
TCS
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tracks making a mess can be avoided grouser pads as fitted to dozers will tear everything apart semi grouser pads as fitted to excavators wont harm concrete or tar if it is layed correctly i have travelled the excavator on new tar with plywood to protect it old tyres can do the same :farmer:
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All the old tractors are collectable, the difference is that some makes have bigger fan clubs or followers, does not necessarily make them a better buy. A lot of 'old tractor fans' regular say , "better than money in the bank". Get a good one, it will work, may get the odd problem but on the whole they are very reliable and cheap to run.
A farmer mate of mine recently bought a 6ton Hitachi 360. It is broken down now in a field with a cracked valve chest, lost all drive. It was a 'good machine, but'.
You can buy rear back actors for the old tractors, David Browns made one and they keep coming up for sale, or McConnells etc. Some say they are like using 'rubber chop sticks', But if money, as always is, the limiting factor, it might take twice as long but the job will get done. (they were designed for keeping trenches open around the farm, not major civil engineering projects).
In the early 70s', I can remember the said farm digging out a silage pit into a hill side with a Whitelock shovel and back actor on an International tractor and carting the spoil away to level the fields with an old Massey with a farm tipping trailer. That old International has just been cut up and sold for scrap, the money gone towards this 360 Hitachi and now is instant scrap that cannot be moved.
I have a drainage problem on the land I use, particulary after this year. A DB back actor on my 1210 will do the job and it will retain its value. I can also carry out any repair.
There is a DB880 for sale on the David Brown Tractor Club Forum in Derbyshire. Strong money but sounds a good machine? And a good place to start. :eyelashes:
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cant quite understand your post Odin many a plant hire company was started with a McConnell back actor and a farm tractor your farmer friend that destroyed a piece of engineering history cant quite understand him either i was always under the impression whitlocks were based on a ford skid unit at least the range of leaflets from that era does not mention them based on a Nash :farmer:
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depending on the size of the job and your timescale - hire in a machine to do the job if time is not the issue then a nice tractor that can take a few attechments and a good strong trailer and your back will do the job.
always remember that the machine is only as good as the person operating it.......
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If your able to buy equipment t that price then just go and buy it - cos it will be worth the same even if its scrap value after.
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Nothing too difficult to understand. The chap has asked a simple question, 360 & a dumper or a agricultural tractor with trailer ? I have given an answer based on my experience with machines that exist, or in the case of the Nasher Whitelock, no longer exist ! :tired:
I keep seeing the odd DB1210 FWD for sale. Had a cracking time with mine today, lifting this, shoving that with the forks. Picked up an entire trailer with it today to move it. Tomorrow I'm going to put my front shovel on and shift some muck then later will fit the plough (DB CM3) and plough up the field in the afternoon, then drive home with a loaded trailer of potatoes to park it up in my mates shed ready for this weeks deluge. Then later this month or next, I have 2 earners, a shoveling job then a ploughing job, all about town where I can drive to. My point is that you can't do that with a 360. :thumbsup:
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the squire was wanting to do a cut and fill on a couple of acres the topsoil alone is 2000 tons (at plough depth)depends on the depth of it never mind moving the subsoil or bringing material in to level the ground
the international diggers were made by wainroy and were based on a 275 from memory i will dig out the leaflets tomorrow and the whitlock ones the international ones were very rare
must admit i have yet to see a plough mounted on a 360 :farmer:
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This Whitlock Nasher must have been built in the 1960s. It was along the lines of a 3C but smaller, probably about 50hp. The farm said it was a rare thing. It was parked up for the last decade for sale, a few collectors looked but it was too far gone, exhausted. But it did do a lot of work on that farm, 2 silage pits, shuppens and collecting yards. I helped lay many of square meter of concrete where that Nasher did the earth work. Plus all the dykes and trenches it cleared.
In the end the only person that would take it was a scrap man who cut it up where it stood and moved it all with two overloaded Ford Transits, so it was not a big machine, but heavy.
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odin it appears we are both right it was a whitlock 105 weighed 4tons and 4 hundred weight but was powered by a 37 hp nash it also could be bought with a ford skid unit of 44 hp will post the leaflet on tomorrow :farmer:
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That was it, same shape, that cab and the colour scheme. Only 35hp eh ? Did a lot of work did that old lass.