The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Goats => Topic started by: clydesdaleclopper on September 19, 2012, 05:57:48 pm
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My hands have been really agonising when I'm milking and I was hoping it would get better but it seems not. I saw the consultant yesterday and it seems likely that it's my Ehler's Danlos Syndrome that is causing the problem - basically my joints are hypermobile and dislocate really easily so my fingers are partially dislocating when I squeeze the teat. Milking is my quiet time away from the children and cuddling my lovely girl so I don't want to give it up but it is so flippin painful at the moment. Sorry for a whinge post but nobody I know in real life can understand why I am so upset at the prospect of stopping :'(
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I have never heard of what you have got but it sounds awful. Is it likely to get any better? If so perhaps someone could help you to milk for a while. If you think its only likely to get worse then you might need to come to terms with it and give up on the milking.
Would you be able to groom the goat instead? At least that way she can still have a cuddle and you will get your quiet time.
Wishing you all the best
Sally
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Ooooh, cc - it's my Jersey, not a goat, that I milk but I absolutely understand how you feel. My hands ache arthritically sometimes and I know it is only a matter of time before I can no longer do this by hand. I'll keep going while it's physically possible because that 10-15 minutes in the morning is my favourite part of the day. Just me and my girl, rhythmic swoosh swoosh into the bucket, she providing and me too, head on flank, reading each other and communicating in a way that only we two understand... priceless.
CC, jaykay will be along soon to remind us all about the device she uses to milk her goats - it's the nearest thing to handmilking without using your hands, and it's one of the things I will look into when eventually the pain and lack of mobility in my knuckles get the better of me.
Meanwhile, I presume there isn't some kind of elasticated glovey thing you could wear to keep your joints in their place?
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CC and Sallyint, I fully sympathise, having arthritis that is making milking painful for me as well although, so far, it is only in one hand. I have a friend who is doing the morning milking for me so I only have to do once a day and I miss it. Milking builds up such a bond and I've been much closer to my girl since I started milking her last year. My real dread is that I'll have to part with my girls.
It's so therapeutic too. I have a friend with mental health issues and she sometimes rings to say that she's had a bad day so could she do the milking that evening. She goes home feeling much better.
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Oh, I'm so sorry.
Yeh, my arthritis hurts when milking too.
Would one of the milking handpumps I use help you or would that be as bad with your fingers (Udderly Ez (http://udderlyez.com/pdf/SheepGoatCowMareMilkerBro.pdf))
Otherwise, I'd take the suggestion of grooming her and taking the time between the two of you anyway. :-*
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I managed to get a milking machine off ebay several years ago........... asmall Fullwoodthat was quite old but has serviced up superbly. Wouldn't be without it now.....it only cost £300. I have arthritis in both hands so do understand the issues.
The only thing that is necessary is to hand strip each goat if the machine doesn't clean completely......but stripping is very easy as the goat is still letting down.
I couldn't be without my girls so the machine is a godsend.
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I also have arthritis and I know the pain involved with milking , We have a machine but I still like the personal contact you get with your goats so for now I will continue to milk by hand but once the pain gets too bad I will have to start using the machine
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Do you have to be separate when using the machine?
I use the handmilker and I sit in the same position as for handmilking, with my head pressed into their side ;D The plus side of the handmilker is it uses only one hand, leaving one for an arm round the goat and a stroke :goat:
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Oh, I've had hand milking on the brain recently, haven't done it before, but have got to that 'stage' in smallholding now, but for the arthritis too, just reading your thread Clydes made me wince - will check out Jaykays thingy as I feel like I would be starting to milk with my days numbered already....hope you find a solution...not looking forward to cold weather, stiffening up etc! Is it something that could be curbed by these hand warmer type gloves you get? (sure the goat would bene :goat: fit!)
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Thanks for all of the kind replies. Unfortunately it won't get any better which is why I feel so rubbish about it all. I am going to ask the occupational therapist about gloves to support the joints to see if they have anything but OT have been pretty useless so far. A proper milking machine would be great but they are so expensive.
Sorry for all of you suffering with arthritis that must be so sore :hug:
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Just checked out Jaykays suggestion - its a breast pump, just like you do with your own babies, easy peasy.
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We had to make that decision last year as my carpal tunnel syndrome (both hands) was making it impossible to hand milk more than one goat... but we did decide to dip into our savings and buy a new milking machine. I now milk five goats and hand-strip at the end (I milk record). Not only has it meant that I can still have my goats, take them to shows (I manage to do a couple by hand for a day or so, and now my daughters are also capable hand milkers), but I can also have a life where I can be away from the holding overnight, or even just have a normal night out... and OH does the milking (holidays are also possible, my farm sitters are happy to use the machine too).
So if you really want to continue milking some form of milking aid would be necessary, and for us the milking machine really has paid for itself in terms of peace of mind mainly.
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The problem with milking machines is the price. I've looked at the Udderly EZ but am not sure if my hand could cope with the pumping although I could do it left handed. But even they are expensive. I'm only milking one goat at the moment and it's a huge investment.
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Well we decided that it would last us for the next 20 years or so (hopefully), and that swung it. I LOVE my milking machine.
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I'll be in my eighties in 20 years so probably wouldn't still be keeping goats. :roflanim: I am on the look out for a second hand one.
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http://youtu.be/SMDpUBuSSlQ (http://youtu.be/SMDpUBuSSlQ)
http://youtu.be/vP1c6zlfVn0 (http://youtu.be/vP1c6zlfVn0)
Have a look at this , and some of the other ideas ,
basically all you need is an interceptor bottle ,some tubing and a vacuum pump to make a small machine , you don't really need the pulser , that's just a refinement , once the flow has started the vacuum does the job . It's just a case of lowering the pressure in the interceptor bottle. Even a washing machine pump might work. :thinking:
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I haven't read everybodies posts yet so please forgive meif I am repeating.
My sister's husband had Ehler's Danlos syndrome, so I have some unfdersatnding, but I also understand that you don't want to give up milking. I don't think you have to do that. I have never been sble to comfortably hand milk goats or cows but I have just decided to keep goats again and I am planning to use a machine.
:thumbsup: Keep positive and do some research on the kind of nachine you would like, then work out how you are going to get one. I have faith in you.
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I completely understand the reluctance to give up hand milking, there is something calm, quiet and satisfying about the rhythm and the communion with the goat. I had to accept that I couldn't continue hand milking after trying to cope with 2 in full milk after kidding. I tried the Henry Milker (find it on Google) which worked okay on the easy-peasy goat who just lets the milk down and eats her food but wasn't a success with the tetchy one. She needed to be massaged throughout the process and needed a lot of stripping out at the end but she does have thin-skinned, long, sensitive udders whereas the other's are compact and hardy. And this is not a cheap option - Henry Milker costs about £125 from America which is a lot for a kilner jar, tube, catheter syringe and £30 vacuum pump which comes from Eastbourne in the first place!
When that didn't work, I bought a new machine from Goat Nutrition after searching ebay etc with no luck. My husband was so hooked on goat milk and goat cheese he decided the nearly £1000 was worth it although I shudder to think what that makes the milk cost per pint...
The girls got used to the noise sooner than I did - I still miss the quiet joy of hand milking, but not the pain! My easy girl is milked out in a couple of minutes, the difficult one still needs the last cup full hand milked but that is no problem.
One point I hadn't taken into consideration when I bought the machine was that lifting the churn (which is huge for 2 goats even though I bought the single-goat milker) and emptying it requires some effort (I have auto-immune disease causing joint/muscle/tendon problems) and I have had to get myself organised with props to assist because I usually milk alone. If possible try to find someone with a machine so you can watch/practice before you buy would be my advice. Now that I'm used to it, it makes continuing milking possible which I know would not have been the case without it.
Good luck, I hope you can find the best solution to your dilemma.
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I don't know if this is worth posting or not - but here goes.
I do see a lot of people, milking goats and cattle, feeling obliged to take all the milk and then use it. That is a lot of work and a lot of strain on sore hands and joints. It is also a massive commitment and tie.
I do it the other way about. I take the milk I want for the house (or pet lambs or whatever else may need some - but not other calves, read on) and then I let the calves take the remainder. When her own calf and its foster-sibling are weaned, the cow gets another pair, when they are weaned, she gets a third pair. Then she rests before she has her next calf. If I don't need any milk one day, I simply let the calves straight on her. If I want to be away for a day or two, even a week, she just gets left out with the calves.
Granted, you need a very maternal cow or goat to keep fostering like this, and I don't know if you get goats that will do it. Jerseys are often used as foster mothers because of their propensity to love any calf and feed it - once it smells of her milk (takes between 7 and 12 days usually, during which time the calf suckles after I milk and while the cow is still tied up) Hillie thinks it's hers and loves it.
I started this right from her very first calf - she calved, I milked her straight away; the very next day we got a foster calf to run with her own calf. So she's never known it any different.
Here she is with her current pair (2nd pair of 2nd lactation):
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Saw a homemade miller on Internet using a water squirting bottle like the ones y spray kichen cleaner from.. Would one of those still hurt to use with poorly hands??
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Sally, what a lovely picture. She's a beautiful cow.
I have heard of goats feeding kids are not their own but I don't think it happens often. At the moment my girl gives us enough milk to keep our household and that of the friend who helps milk going but the yield is decreasing as the weather gets cooler. I plan to alternate between her and my youngster when she is old enough to kid, which will give us a bit more than we need in the summer but enough in the winter. I don't have space to bring other kids in to take the extra.
Bodies are such a nuisance when they start wearing out, especially as they seem to do it before we're finished with them. ;D
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Bodies are such a nuisance when they start wearing out, especially as they seem to do it before we're finished with them. ;D
Oh how I agree and mine seems to be wearing out so suddenly. I keep hoping that its just a blip and all will be well again but if I am realisitic I fear that I am stuck with it :(
Sally
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Two friends of mine only started his smallholdig at the age of 84 and 67 so
(But they are a little mad)
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Sally i adore Jerseys! what a cracking picture one day i hope to own one. OH bangs on about beef cattle but i want that face to greet me in the morning with those wonderful eyes
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Sally i adore Jerseys! what a cracking picture one day i hope to own one. OH bangs on about beef cattle but i want that face to greet me in the morning with those wonderful eyes
We're commercial beef farmers but I have to tell you, BH thinks the world of Hillie and her first-born (who will calve herself in a few months.) Originally he said, "Two's plenty", hence said first-born is called Plenty, but now he just shrugs when I ask him when I've to stop breeding Jerseys. They do a great job here, rearing additional calves without having to have the footprint of another cow on the land. They do a better job than milk powder and bucket, and with less health risks to a young calf. If we have a suckler cow struggling with her own calf, we've a foster mum ready willing and able to step in. And of course, they're great with children, so all the grandnephews and -neices, and cousins' offspring, are able to get to know livestock safely through my Jerseys, geeps and pigs ;D
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Sally i adore Jerseys! what a cracking picture one day i hope to own one. OH bangs on about beef cattle but i want that face to greet me in the morning with those wonderful eyes
Tell him Jerseys can also make very good beef - the supermarkets just dont like the yellow fat but thats their loss!
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Countrywoman I would love a machine but there is no way I could afford it.
Sally - we do actually use all of the milk - she is only milked once a day and I have 2 small boys so they drink a lot of milk.
I have tried one of the manual ones which you pump with your hand (many thanks to Skirza) but that just cases problems with different joints.
Oh to have a body that worked without any hassle. I suppose at least as I get older and start to stiffen up it might help a little bit.
At what age do you think a child could milk? My eldest has just turned 5 so I expect he is far too young but he wants to try and if he was doing it I'd be there too getting my cuddles even if I didn't get any child free time.
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I have a machine but only have one goat milking at the moment and she's only giving 4pnts so it hardley seems worth the effort (Why on earth don't they make smaller containers like in the States!?) The Jars with all the tubes didn't work especially with a wriggly goat so I got the udderly ez and that's great.No tubes to get caught up in and it just goes straight in the jar so when its full I quickly unscrew it,pour it into a covered jug and go back to milking.It only takes a few squeezes to start the milk flowing and then you relax,watch it flow and squeeze again a couple of times when necessary.
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Would this b any good
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Where does the milk go?
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Would a 5-year old be able to use the Ez?
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You spray the milk in to your bucket or bottle
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Ok :D It's been a long day :relief:
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Just been thinking ... A 12 volt water pump from a car or caravan.. Older caravans had a foot pump system that could work
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My Smallholder Milking Machine was great but I can't get anyone to fix it.I've tried making some of the others but they didn't work.The EZ does the job and in my mind is worth every penny
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Gotta say I like mine. And I was even more impressed when I found you could buy parts and mend it :thumbsup:
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I know I am repeating myself here, but the American 'Henry Milker' is SO easy to make and costs around £30
I realise it's not going to work for Clydesdaleclopper but anyone needs a hand pump type milker then this a very cheap option - (not disputing the Udderly EZ is a more professional option but I'm thinking cheap here ;) )
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At what age do you think a child could milk? My eldest has just turned 5 so I expect he is far too young but he wants to try and if he was doing it I'd be there too getting my cuddles even if I didn't get any child free time.
At one time I would have agreed he is too young but then I met someone who started milking as soon as she could walk, according to her grandmother. That might be a slight exaggeration (or she started walking late) but I would certainly let your lad have a go, CC. I have taught seven year olds to milk and that's not much older. Nothing to lose, except maybe some milk,so worth trying.
I wouldn't reckon on joints seizing up making it easier to milk cos that's when it starts to hurt.
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I would let him trying milking too. He may have strong little hands and be just fine. My neice could milk out our (admittedly older, very experienced) milker from the age of seven. She's 14 now and can easily milk everything.
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My younger daughter (turned 9 this summer) milked one of our goats out this year at the shows. Now she is not the highest yielding goat (about 4.5kgs this summer) and has nice good sized teats. However Tina has milked her since she came to us last September, so if your goat is fairly placid (or keen on her food) I would let him have a go.
But I commiserate with you, I used to love my "me time" in the goatshed... not anymore... :-\
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Would a 5-year old be able to use the Ez?
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I've got a four year old and three year old who both love to 'help' with the milking. They can both manage the technique but don't really have the concentration and patience yet to sit there for long enough to milk out completely.
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I've got a four year old and three year old who both love to 'help' with the milking. They can both manage the technique but don't really have the concentration and patience yet to sit there for long enough to milk out completely.
Yes that was our experience too.
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Looks like it's worth trying, CC. Even if he only does half a job, it will beeasier for you to finish than do the lot, I should imagine. Let us know how you get on.
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Right enough - even if he only does part of the job that would help. He is rather distractible so I can't imagine he would manage for the whole time.
Any idea how best to start showing him? Is a glove filled with water or the real thing best?
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We just started on real, I pressed the right fingers/thumbs in her hand. My younger daughter was quite quick to pick it up, older one took a bit longer.
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When I show someone, I demonstrate on their finger to give them an idea of how hard to squeeze, then get them to show me on my finger. Then it's straight onto the goat. Good luck.
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We also just started straight on the real thing. I described the process to them and as we do it we say out loud, "Snip" (the top of the teat to close off the flow), "Squeeze" (the rest of their fingers to push the milk out, then "Relax". To begin with the bit they find hardest is the "Snip" bit with little fingers, so I squeeze round their thumb and first finger to make sure that bit is tight enough and they "Squeeze" themselves. My three year old girl can now do it all on her own pretty reliably, my four year old boy still needs the odd bit of help with the "Snip".
Our youngest regular milker (we run a community farm) is a thirteen year old who happily milks two goats out completely (and does the feeding, watering and leading in and out of stables). Not had enough experience with in-between ages to tell how young a child could manage one goat on their own.
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But I commiserate with you, I used to love my "me time" in the goatshed... not anymore... :-\
So do, I it's quite special just being on your own with the girls, I like last thing at night best, when you go in, sometimes they are restless, maybe bleating for their supper, then after milking, feeding etc, just leaning watching them pull at their fresh hay and quietly chomping away, such a calming time, then leaving them all settled and peaceful for the night :) .
But if you do end up using a machine, you could still have that 'after' time, talking, stroking, etc the milking itself is only part of that bond, it's the rest of the contact and interaction that makes them so endearing (I think so anyway, don't we love our kids and goatlings even though we aren't milking them? and sometimes old milkers that have stayed on as 'pets' :) )
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I don't milk at night but I often just go into the goat byre and sit on the milking stand, watching and listening to everyone munching - and scritching the ears of those that come for a fuss :goat:
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I don't milk at night but I often just go into the goat byre and sit on the milking stand, watching and listening to everyone munching - and scritching the ears of those that come for a fuss :goat:
sounds better than watching eastenders or some other rubbish
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I don't milk at night but I often just go into the goat byre and sit on the milking stand, watching and listening to everyone munching - and scritching the ears of those that come for a fuss :goat:
sounds better than watching eastenders or some other rubbish
It is much better. I'll be going out to mine in a bit.
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I don't milk at night but I often just go into the goat byre and sit on the milking stand, watching and listening to everyone munching - and scritching the ears of those that come for a fuss :goat:
sounds better than watching eastenders or some other rubbish
What's 'Eastenders'? :-J
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I don't milk at night but I often just go into the goat byre and sit on the milking stand, watching and listening to everyone munching - and scritching the ears of those that come for a fuss :goat:
sounds better than watching eastenders or some other rubbish
What's 'Eastenders'? :-J
We got rid of our telly more than 5 years ago -don't miss it at all
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Just coming up to the end of the second year without one. People told me I'd really miss it. Do I? Not in the slightest.
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I would miss ours, but ir doesn't stop me spending time with my girls, trouble is there is a couple of hundred hours on the DVD hard drive I never manage to watch ::) .
Girls have been out all day today, they couldn't be bothered to get up to say hello when I went in for last check and hay refill.
I like CSI, keep telling OH it's so I know what clues to avoid leaving when I do him in ;D .
other than that it's country file, animals + gardening progs.
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Id like to thank sallyintnorth ........ you have answered a question I haven't been able to find an answer too.... I know you can have a cow and share the milk with calf/calves but I wasn;t sure if you could just abandon (well almost!) the cow to the calves if you needed a day away or in an emergency.
I love Jersey's ... milked a herd of 80 for a couple of years (a long time ago!) and had concidered a house cow but worried about the tie of having to be there to milk every day. My grandson has been rushed to hospital 3 times in his first year and I will be some distance from them when I move to Wales.
Has anyone tried this with any other breed?