The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: JoanneB on July 19, 2012, 10:15:08 pm
-
:wave: I'd love to know what TAS members think the best cattle/land animal to be? To keep the grass down, take all manner of table scraps, overwinter in a basic shelter, be fairly child friendly, cost efficient and in the longer term have the possibility to produce some kind of return. I've considered geese, sheep, pigs, lamas, donkeys etc but would love to hear what you have to say. When the world is your lobster it's hard to choose!!
-
LOL... I would have to say sheep...but then I am incredibly, incredibly biased :o)
-
Yes so far my balance is weighing in on sheep too. But possibly with a little something on the side.....?!
-
there isn't one animal that would saitsfy all your needs as described above.
Sheep - keep the grass down and produce meat and wool
pigs - (illegally) eat your kitchen scraps, destroy your grass but make good eating
goats - eat your hedges, trees and socks on the washing line (if you let them... :-J ), produce milk and all your dairy needs, plus delicious meat (if you are so inclined), are very childfriendly
cows - eat the grass, destroy the field with their big clumpy hoofs (especially in this weather), and otherwise as goats (minus the sock-eating habit I would say, but maybe not?)
so take your pick...
maybe start with chickens.... then see how you get on
-
Hi & welcome to TAS Joanne :wave:
I agree with Anke - there is no single animal that will cover all, but the very nature of small-holding is to have a mix of animals that you can tailor to your requirements.
If you can get to the Scottish Smallholder & Grower Show in September you will get a great experience of many types of animals smallholders & many of their stock too :thumbsup:
Most of them are on this forum too ;)
:love: :pig: :love:
-
Hi JoanneB and welcome!
Shetland sheep, though I too am biased ;D
-
Chickens!!! Even if it is a very smallholding.
-
Whatever other livestock you choose, chickens are up on the top line for easy care and, in my experience, pay for themselves in eggs alone :thumbsup:
-
For cost effectiveness I would come down on the side of chickens, free range , a handfull of mixed corn , a drop of water, dont need a big shelter, or any special transport arrangements, no abatoir, or markets to drag them to , and they pay you with eggs and meat, and who takes a chicken to an expensive vet ? a flick of the wrist cures all ills.
Goats provide milk, meat, and entertainment par excellance.
Sheep are a total pain , good eating, suicidal maniacs with bad teeth, feet and endless health problems, vet bills and medication
Pigs are destroyers of worlds, but good to eat in various forms.
cows are s**t machines
horses are a waste of good grass.
women cost a fortune
so why do I keep em?
???
-
I would say sheep (shetland for me too), they dont need much help at lambing, are tough in winter and produce amazing wool and amazing meat.
-
cows - destroy the field with their big clumpy hoofs (especially in this weather)
Not my little Shetland cattle :)
-
I would go with chickens for a starter at least. They are relatively cheap to buy, don't cost too much to feed and you get the benefit of eggs on tap.
Mine also never fail to amuse me.
women cost a fortune
so why do I keep em?
???
Tizaala, just how many women do you keep? ;D ;D
-
If I were restricted to just one species I would be hard pressed to choose between poultry and pigs :-\ :-\
-
cows - destroy the field with their big clumpy hoofs (especially in this weather)
Not my little Shetland cattle :)
Well... why am I taking my OH to Shetland and Cunnigsburgh show.... :innocent:
-
Chickens are a MUST, perhaps turkeys (kept well away from the chooks of course) for extra money at Christmas, How about rabbits? Very healthy eating or so Im told.
I'd love to have some sheep and I do have the land for them, but where I would like to rear them fro the freezer, OH wont have it and prefers his meat from the supermarket...PHILISTINE! :chook:
-
Chooks I have. I think a mix sounds great - a couple of sheep, and maybe something else just for fun. Tizaala I might take your lead and try a keeping a few blokes, I don't think I could afford the food bill though ;) maybe they could over winter with the sheep?!?! My poor chooks are plagued by foxes so I'm off to buy some electric fencing. Seems to be the very dab. Could a goat range with sheep? They are very entertaining.
-
I'd love something to keep the foxes away from my chooks. I hear lama's are great at this.
-
I keep chickens, ducks and shetland sheep happily together. Geese are always an option too.
-
cows - destroy the field with their big clumpy hoofs (especially in this weather)
Not my little Shetland cattle :)
Jerseys are very light on their feet too, very friendly - they bond with their milkperson, nice with children, can rear their own and several other calves each year, plus give out-of-this-world milk and cream for the house. Should live a long time too.
-
Could a goat range with sheep?
Please never buy a single goat, even if you think about running them with sheep. They are just not happy. Always have at least two, and three is a better strater option.
Don't run sheep and goats on the same paddock, unless you are a 100% certain that a) your land is free of worms and b) both your goats and sheep are also totally free of them. Nigh on impossible, so better to have separate grazings. Adult sheep can tolerate a certain level of worms but goats don't and it would cause you endless problems and lead to resistant worms very quickly.
Also goats need a higher level of copper in their diet, whereas that could be toxic to sheep, so any concentrates you feed would be better separate and goats needs a different lick to sheep.
There are people who run them together, but - imho - it needs a compliacted management system and it is easier to have them separate. Cattle and sheep together are an easier option and I have done that in the past.
-
Did you say "a few blokes" :o ??? I'm just trying to think what the financial benefit would be, or even the cash crop :o Bloke farming tho, intriguing idea.. ;D
Sensible answer from me would be chooks, more of if you have some already. They're the only livestock I know that more than pay their way and if you protect them from foxies, they're a sound investment. Sheep are too suicidal and/or houdini-natured for the most part, tho there are exceptions I gather. The bigger the animal the higher the cost and lower number you can produce per acre, which concentrates risk of loss and high vet bills ::) As a hobby or to supplement, yes, but if you rely on them then a bad year or low prices can stop you in your tracks. Diversification on a minor scale to try your hand, yes, that's smallholding, but don't go into single large species without a willingness to turn your savings into an overdraft ;)
-
Sheep are a total pain , good eating, suicidal maniacs with bad teeth, feet and endless health problems, vet bills and medication
LOL...but Tiz...... without all their 'issues' what on earth would we be doing otherwise in the pelting rain and blistering sun day by day?????????? ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Chickens eat a fair bit of grass. Perhaps 60 chickens equates to one sheep. We ran a great system for a while with 'pet' lambs fattened on the Summer and Autumn grass and then in the freezer. That left enough grass for the chickens over Winter. Then more lambs the following year. We have half an acre of which 3/4 is a grassed Orchard. So I think chickens without a doubt.
-
Sheep are a total pain , good eating, suicidal maniacs with bad teeth, feet and endless health problems, vet bills and medication
Actually my goats top the list in the vets bill and medication category....
I absolutely don't think that sheep are that bad, I have only lost one ewe unexpectedly from CCN (from an initial flock of 15 breeding ewes, upgraded last year to 35) in the five years I have kept them, and my lamb deaths (from 4 lambings) are also still in in single figures. I think a lot depends on the quality of stock you buy, the breed you choose and the effort you make in looking after them.
-
i made most profit out of geese, they grazed all year and only got fed in winter, reproduced well, cast feathers got sold too, ie 5 for £1 on magic ebay. next to no labour required. they sold like hot cakes too.
not enough grass to have any now.
some animals are alot more labour intensive, ie rabbits, goats and hens take so much more time on a day to day basis than cattle.
couldnt b without pigs tho.
-
Only beginning my smallholding life but the surprise for me was quail.
Cheap initial set up costs, easy to hatch (but much higher chick mortality than I am used to with ducklings which is nearly zero), quick to mature. Hens start laying quickly and the eggs sell for a premium and the boys fatten up quickly, easy to kill, pluck and gut and also sell well.
Could never be without my ducks but the quail are far more profitable!
-
Ducks, especially Muscovy, I have lots would you like some?
-
ooh quails are delicious, its a shame u have to kill so many for a big family meal. mmm
-
I'd have to say sheep (But not shetlands for god's sake - they are useless, puny nervy things that are no good for anything but hill land) If your going to get sheep get something that produces a good fleece & large carcass like the clun forests - ok I'm biast ;D as their a very local breed to me & my family used to show them but their hardy do well on hill & flat land, are attractive to look at, fleeces are some of the most sought after, big carcasses, easy & quiet to handle - even for children, & rear twins & triplets well.
Also I'd have to say a nice section D welsh cob - Both Cart & riding trained, A good terrier & a few cats for ratters & some geese & a couple of house cows would be great (Pref dual purpose animals though) as goat milk tastes VILE :P x
-
Aghhhh goats milk does not taste vile. I'd stake my reputation on it. You are doing something wrong if it tastes of anything but milk. I had coffee at Tizaala's couple of weeks ago, met the pups, bought some kids. I wouldn't have known the milk was goat's If I hadn't seen the milk churn.
-
Nah sorry I've had it off my uncles goat & shop bought & it tasted sour & bitter & just plain awful - plus the buggers bully sheep & destroy hedges - cute & friendly granted but if I had any I'd probably go for some Nubians for some meat & maybe a few pygmys & again any male kids would go for slaughter or sale as pets - any idea if anyone knows if the males are left entire until say 6-12 months as a slaughter age if the smell would taint the meat like boar taint in pigs x
-
Shop bought has a tang to it that makes it quite unpleasant but fresh goats milk doesn't taste any different to cow's milk unless something is wrong! If the goat has mastitis or the milk is not being cared for properly after milking or maybe the goat has a mineral deficiency then it will taste 'off' or 'goaty'.
My goats have lived with sheep and never bullied them. Best bet for meat would be Boer or BoerX. Pygmies are fine as pets but that's about it.
You'd most likely need to castrate billies for meat - they reach sexual maturity quite quickly!
-
Very few people can tell they are having goat's milk in their tea in my house. Shop stuff is horrible. Goats are fun, affectionate, productive and will eat far scrubbier plants than most animals. Males make good meat.
No prizes for guessing what I would recommend. Would also run some chooks with them.
-
Mmm if we got a few would it be best to put up an area with just wooden fencing as all our lands hedgerows with wire in the middle suitable for sheep & cattle but when we had our last goat she was kept with sheep & a right bugger, - how many times do they breed a year? is it once like sheep or more? x
-
my OH is the best all round smallholder animal; only problem is that bakewell market won't sell him for me and the abbatoir won't do the deed when he's no longer 'useful'
he also insists on sleeping in the house :-J
Mx
-
;D ;D ;D
-
Mmm if we got a few would it be best to put up an area with just wooden fencing as all our lands hedgerows with wire in the middle suitable for sheep & cattle but when we had our last goat she was kept with sheep & a right bugger, - how many times do they breed a year? is it once like sheep or more? x
Once a year for mating.
fencing - most goats need electric strands and very high fences to contain them
-
Ok I actually just found that the boers can breed up to 3 times a year but 1-2 is normal, does anyone find it difficult finding abbotoirs that accept goats as I'd like to send them local if possible does anyone in my area know of any? x
-
How do they do that with a average 150 day gestation period? would be interested to see the source of that info!
You might find this site useful [size=78%]http://www.allgoats.com/breeding.htm#What is the gestation (http://www.allgoats.com/breeding.htm#What is the gestation)[/size] it will answer lots of questions about goat breeding. Or perhaps post in the goat section on here?
-
Ok I actually just found that the boers can breed up to 3 times a year but 1-2 is normal, does anyone find it difficult finding abbotoirs that accept goats as I'd like to send them local if possible does anyone in my area know of any? x
I breed mine every two or three years or until they aren't producing enough milk. My last one was producing milk for four years after kidding.
There is a slaughter house at Bishop's Castle which takes goats. I will be using them fairly soon.
-
No see ours I'd like to see having the 1-2 litters a year from approx 5-6 nannies so that's maybe 36 kids tops - some of which will go to slaughter & the nanny kids sold or eaten if they don't make the grade - The one in Bishops castle is closed as we used to use them & the Lentwardine one which kills sheep pigs & cattle so maybe they do - craven arms do sheep but its supposedly a Halal slaughter house - which a lot of locals & us dont approve of >:( - with goats is it possible to keep the Billy with the Nannies all year round? or should I remove him & put him with castrated males when not wanted for breeding?, our hedges our high so would electric fencing simply be ok for the goats? or can anyone recommend dismatable fencing? As we'd move them to different fields occasionally x
-
if you are a beginner ... chickens.
More than a few, just in case!
for all rounders, goats definitely fit the bill. Milk, less space needed than cattle, less suicidal than sheep (or so I'm told, I don't keep sheep so should stick to telling you what I know about) intelligent, affectionate, generally few kidding problems (assuming you want them for purpose, ie to milk from) and, if you do your homework, buy good, tested stock, then usually little need for vet attention, with good husbandry.
depending on your land, pigs give good meat.
cats or terriers will keep down the rodents ...
.. after that, its a case of what you fancy keeping really!
best of luck
-
we keep our billy in all year. He soon shifts at the first sign of kidding! he can't cope being shut in, so just sleeps out or well out of her way...
-
by the way, goats gestate for apporx 150 - 155 days, and won't mate til the kids are weaned.
do the sums, even boers would struggle to mate THAT many times a year! ;)
:goat: :love: :goat:
-
Thanks little blue - trust me I'm nooo beginner :D, I've been dealing with hens, ducks, geese sheep & beef & dairy cattle all through my life ;D I just want something a little easy & different that can be kept at the farm, to maintain it whilst we have the other stock elsewhere hence boer goats for meat - although a few dairy goats would be tempting for the milk maybe as I could cross them for kids for meat x
-
Fascinating stuff guys. I have only tried shop bought goats mIlk and have to agree it was vile. I think I'd need convincing that fresh was better before going for a goat. I was dead keen though, right up until I put it on my cornflakes. I'm having terrible bother with foxes and don't free range my hens anymore, sadly. Otherwise I'd have no hesitation in upping my brood. Geese I hope will be less prone to fox attacks. Very much hoping to make it to the Smallholding Fest, am due baby 2 at the beginning of Sept so depends a bit how that goes. Hope meet some of you there. ????
-
joanne
i HATED goats milk............
UNTIL I went to little blues and bit the bullet and had it in my tea; all fine and was no different. :yum:
would consider getting a goat if we had space/experience
Mx
-
The supermarket stuff tastes completely different to fresh, it really does. I used to baulk at the taste of it if I accidentally put my daughters goats milk into my coffee but now if it's from our own goat, the only difference I can taste is that its full fat rather than the skimmed which I prefer :)
Other point about mating goats - our goats only come into season once a year, ie. in the Autumn and once they are successfully mated they go quiet, have their kids in the spring and won't return into season till the autumn... so I'm still confuddled as to how they can have 3 lots of kids a year but there you go ;D
-
A goats gestation is around 150 days - so even with my maths A-level quite a few years ago I don't think goats can produce three lots of kids a year, I would have thought there aren't any large animals that can? ??? (I wouldn't count rabbits as large animals...)
There is a lot of prejudice out there against goats, and it is easy to keep going at them because everybody else is too... but I bet anyone who is actually starting to keep them is getting addicted in no time ;D . And they don't require cattle handling facilities, a large trailer, 4 x 4 car to tow said trailer... so in all a much better smallholder option than cows (only my personal opinion, and I would love a house cow too...)
-
Soon after I had my first goat, my brother and his wife came to visit. After as couple of cups of tea, Paul said, "Let's see this goat then." so we all went out into the garden to see her. After making a fuss of her and saying how lovely she was, we went back inside and my brother and his wife went for a rest (they had been travelling for hours). Got up a couple of hours later and we were drinking more tea when the conversation got onto goats. Paul, cup of tea in hand, said, "Well, goat's milk is all very well but I couldn't drink it in my tea." He then looked at my face and said, "I have been, haven't I?"
I rest my case.
-
our bagot milk was perfect coffee, i cant stand shop bought gots milk/or even goats butter, big shame tho.
-
goats milk is often "creamier" than what you get in a bottle from the supermarket (cows') ... however, if you stand it & skim it, make butter - an extra bonus!
The butter fat is distributed differently than in cows's milk, so it takes longer to rise & is less "fattening" due to how your body emulsifies it. There is also alot less lactose, hence the ability of people loke my o/h to drink huge quantities (and he does!) without getting a reaction like he does to cows' milk (especially full fat)
And you can't get fresher than straight from your own goat, even if its pasteurised & left overnight to cool, like we do.
Nobody who comes here gets anything but goats' milk, unless they bring their own (my mum does, but thats another story!) and we have made a good few converts, eh manian?!
-
And if you still need convincing, Shropshire Lass, come to Telford and try milk from my girl.
-
Now you do realise Mad Goat that if someone googles Telford it's going to come up with your last statement ..... ;D
-
Gloucester Old Spot Pigs sociable and tasty (they say you can tell them your troubles) Which brings me on to Jacob sheep, more like a goat than a sheep. Will clear your hedgerow while ignoring grass in the field. Only plus side is is gives our collie something to work.
Tried using them to keep the grass down in the orchard and they ringed all the bark off the apple trees. Now have a gaggle of eight chinese geese for that job.
Chickens are ok if you want one egg a day lol( I swear they are on flexi time even our Turkeys lay more than the hens do).
As for horses my Quarter horse x is the quickest thing for converting £20 notes into manure.