The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: horsemadmummy on July 14, 2012, 06:51:20 pm
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We are looking to take on breeding herd of iron age pigs we have a dog that helps with our sheep can anyone recommend a breed of breeder who produces dogs to help with pigs? Will need to be brave as these are related to wild boar and with 10 sows lively to have quote a few off spring to move about the place!!!!
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I don't thInk pigs would respond to a dog. They don't do being herded like pray species do. Also the pigs may eat the dog..... There is a breed of dog in the states used for tracking and holding wild boar- these are big mastiff types and several are used. Something like a catahulan leopard dog I think.
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we have a tamworth sow who actively hates dogs and is v aggressive towards them without any dominance or provacation from the dog. completely dangerous situation so she is away to slaughter next week. seeing 200kg pig attacking a dog, and the dog hiding behind u is not funny :innocent:
iv no experience of iron age pigs but believe they are more aggressive than domestic breeds?? 10 sows is a huge commitment.
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For pigs to be herded by a dog they'd have to be scared of dogs. Pigs aren't scared of dogs.
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Dunno about that Hughesy, my big GSD is quite handy at herding Kunekune piglets when they squeeze through the fences ;) :D :D :D
But I wouldn't send any dog in with a herd of iron age pigs :-\ I think even young ones would be fairly highly strung ??? I'm only guessing though as I've not kept them (too scary a prospect for me, with my kids :o ::) ;)) but Robert & Lillian have, so hopefully you'll get the low down from them soon.
Karen :wave:
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http://www.freeads.co.uk/uk/freestuff/buy__sell/pets/farm,_smallholding__livestock/pigs/16592533/pigs-4-x-iron-age-sows/view (http://www.freeads.co.uk/uk/freestuff/buy__sell/pets/farm,_smallholding__livestock/pigs/16592533/pigs-4-x-iron-age-sows/view)
fancy these anyone??
:eyelashes: :eyelashes: :eyelashes:
do u not need any license with ironage pigs then?
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well in my opinion your head must button up the back not bothering if i offend or not
have you worked with iron age pigs are you aware of what they are capable of domesticated pigs can turn in an instant even kunnies
a piglet squealing not even one from an iron age pig and they go into defencive mode never mind a dog near them and that was with steel fences
but go ahead get them and try them with a dog we will read about it in the papers
far better training them to the feed bucket far easier and safer for your self :farmer:
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10 sows is 20 litters a year.
iv only 4 sows and its quite alot of work, whether sold as weaners or finished.
my foundation gilts are all used to dogs, but if u saw Nasty Nessie attack a dog, ud understand the alarm :o
why not consider a rare british breed? they need all the help they can get. :) :)
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princess wild boar you need a licence and proper fencing iron age can be wild boar but call them iron age you need diddly squat not even intelligence wild boar crossed with tamworth = iron age even when they are threequarter tamworth or even seven eightieths Tamworth's they are still iron age iron age only have one litter a year :farmer:
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iron age only have one litter a year :farmer:
i knew ud say that ... :D
is it always a tamworth cross?
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to be true to form yes but an iron age with a white saddle just would not fit the type neither would one with piries :farmer:
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to be true to form yes but an iron age with a white saddle just would not fit the type neither would one with piries :farmer:
:D :D :D :D
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even when they are threequarter tamworth or even seven eightieths Tamworth's they are still iron age iron age only have one litter a year :farmer:
still only one litter a year when 75%+ tammie blood? :-\
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Back on topic... I would think you are more likely to get pigs to follow a dog than to be herded by one. If you got them to associate the dog with being fed, they'd follow it alright! :D
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Basically a dog cannot herd pigs.
As several have said, pigs are not a prey species, so do not repond to agressive stimuli as prey species do.
In nature wild boar have no natural enemies, wander round in small groups quietly in woods, and go compleltly mental if threatened.
So a dog would not work, and at best you wouild end up with injured dog.
As others have also stated, if you do not alreday have good expertience of pigs, iron age are NOT the pig to start with, nor any pigs at the scale you are indicating - 10 sows is a lot of work, and iron age take a lot of skill in handling.
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where can u get ironage semen then? or r people using boars to get these crosses?
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princess you can not get iron age semen what you use is tamworth over wild boar some use a wild boar over tamworth sows they have a tendency to take after the wild boar plus you are workingwith a very dangerous animal also there is not much demand for wild boar now :farmer:
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its ok, im not wanting any :eyelashes:
just wondering, with licensing requirements etc for the wild boar, how they manage to be so many ironage pigs around. are they quite common? or is the license easy to get?
we did eat wild boar in aviemore once - :innocent:
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that is the whole point of this discussion you just don't know what you are getting until it has your leg ripped open there is no paperwork with them as to the parentage what the seller tells you is what you believe AND IRON AGE IS ONLY A DODGE TO GET ROUND THE WILD BOAR LICENCE :farmer:
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I would seriously think hard about iron age your only going to have a small market for selling and the work load is enormous, ive worked with wild boar before and you seriously need 3 or 4 pairs of eyes!!!!!!!! i'd personally start with old spots or oxfords they are much more manageable and docile and you would'nt need a dog!!!!
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Thanks for all the posts as ever. We are not new to pigs we have done GOS we have 5 acres of woodland that wouldn't be used otherwise and properly fenced with stock fencing with electric inside. It was only a question about dogs as I have seen them used in the states.
I would suggest that any livestock has to be treated carefully a domesticated bull can have a bad day!
We are growing a speciality meat business from farm gate to plate and these would be a welcome addition however I do need to know if ironage truly only breed once a year. We do need 2 litters a year to ensure availability year round.
If anyone knows the right answer please post.
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that is something you will have to find out yourself we had two sisters one did breed quite consistently the other was only once a year GOS are puppy's compared to pit bulls you will need the fence buried in the ground also 10 sows x10 piglets a litter or maybe only 4 x by 2 litters a year = 210 pigs and they don't mature like GOS it is a year to 18 months to get that gamey flavour
but what would i know :farmer:
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so that would mean keeping more than 200 odd pigs for a year, BEFORE any went to slaughter. wow. at 100kg each thats 20 000 kg of pork to shift. goodness me.
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Here's a link to someone who has had iron age and now keeps pure wild boar
http://www.wildfarming.co.uk/Wild%20Boar/wboar.htm (http://www.wildfarming.co.uk/Wild%20Boar/wboar.htm)
I see on their site the litters they have are normally 4-6 (that is for pure wild boar) but no mention of how many litters per year :-\ It would be worth sending them a quick email to ask what their experiences are too - the more info you have the better :thumbsup:
I've also sent a message to someone I know that keeps Iron Age, so will let you know if I hear anything back from them. You're a braver woman than me ;)
Karen :wave:
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You'll save yourself a fortune in BPA subs too ;D ;D ;D ;D
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We were originally looking for tamworths but couldn't find any within a reasonable distance at a reasonable cost. I could go to a pig sale but you don't know what you are getting there either!
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going by the site Karen flagged up you will be cheaper with normal pigs and safer where are you anyway
just because you don't see pigs that does not mean there are none in your area
the country is awash with pigs :farmer:
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Where do you come from horsemadmummy? If you change your mind and decide on Tamworths I have some delightful ones available, currently 7 weeks and 16 weeks. I live in Hampshire - Tamsaddle
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We are in Devon we do need to get up and breeding this year to justify the investment in making the woodland pig proof!!! However anyone I have approached has wanted more than 200 a sow or boar. When I sold s GOS sow recently I had to take her to a sale as I had no takers for her here! She only fetched 80 after commission !
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that is the sad thing about pig breeding you want some they cost a fortune you are selling and nobody wants them an in pig gilt is worth the £250 or thereabout especially if pedigree the same as boars
was that an old sow going for killing if it was you were robed it is worth at least double going to the cast sow trade :farmer:
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The only suggestion I have is, before you make your decision about the Iron Age pigs, check that there is a slaughterhouse which will kill them for you. I know of a breeder of wild boar on a large scale whose business collapsed when their abattoir would no longer kill their animals - because one had attacked the slaughterman and badly injured him, so not surprising.
Tamworths are lovely :love: ;D :innocent:
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We were originally looking for tamworths but couldn't find any within a reasonable distance at a reasonable cost. I could go to a pig sale but you don't know what you are getting there either!
My neighbour has Tamworths, HMM. Would you like his 'phone number. He has some lovely pigs(and you can borrow my trailer at the same time) :) :)
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a very good point fleecewife you have to get aproved premises to do the killing and prep as not many slaughterhouses will take them even if you claim them to be iron age they just dont need your business for the upset they can cause :farmer:
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tamworths are delightful and thrive in the woods. they are more lively than the gos. all mine are trained to a bucket and have 15 acres to roam. they will come galloping when u call them everytime.
getting young gilts for breeding gives u time to develop a relationship with them before u mate them at 10 mths. in the meantime u could get some boar weaners to finish at 6 mths - to sell within 4 mths of buying them.
we r getting an average of 10 in a litter with our tamworths and sell weaners for £50-£60 each. there r a few breeders down ur way im sure.
what price per kilo is the iron age meat?
just saw it - £7.70 p kg. not that expensive is it.
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Whereabouts in Devon are you?
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We are based near okehampton but Our new land is near Exeter.
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Forgive the interruption, but why iron age / wild boar? With the higher risks and faff-factor, what is the pay off? :)
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Back to the dogs!! My sheepdogs will work cattle and even donkeys (now that is not normal) but I wouldn't even try to herd pigs let alone iron age pigs. I value my dogs too much.
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We are based near okehampton but Our new land is near Exeter.
Theres a chap in Okehampton who breeds pedigree tamworths or another breeder in Minehead i can give you their details if you would like them?? its the closest you could get to iron age and alot safer!!!! ;D
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Have you tried the Tamworth Breeders' club website? We have a Breeders directory and if you drop me an email I can give members details local to you secretary@tamworthreedersclub.co.uk
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We are now torn between tamworths and also mangalitzas so will keep you all posted!!! Both seem to be ideal to forage in woodland
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Any traditional breed of pig should do well in woodland. It is after all what they would do naturally.
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mangalitzas i believe finish at 12-18mths old.
weaner prices have dropped alot in 2 years.
good luck with whatever u decide. :wave:
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mangas were a fashion craze for a while until they discovered how long you had to keep them that is why the price drop just the same as kunnies they used to be £150 and look at how many are free on here does not matter what breed the breeder will tell you they are the best until you have them on the butchers block :farmer:
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Any traditional breed of pig should do well in woodland. It is after all what they would do naturally.
As do KKs my friend ;)
HMM - try visiting as many breeds as you can before you decide & let us know how it goes - best wishes :hshoe:
:love: :pig: :love:
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mangas were a fashion craze for a while until they discovered how long you had to keep them that is why the price drop just the same as kunnies they used to be £150 and look at how many are free on here does not matter what breed the breeder will tell you they are the best until you have them on the butchers block :farmer:
Hey Robert - back off the KKs! :wave: I'll agree with you about the breeders though - each to their own, diversity rules ;)
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As with any breed of any animal if they become popular too many people jump on the band-wagon, there are suddenly too many, people who bought them on a whim find them too much work, the market is saturated and prices drop. When I first looked at alpaca (about eight years ago) the price was £2-3,000 an animal. Now I find them begging for good homes ::) ::)
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Thank you to everyone who has contributed I never thought pigs would be so controversial! We will run two herds a tamworth ( if we can get right stock) and the mangalitzas. I dont want to offend anyone so I will apologise if what I am about to post does.
It is my belief as with my lamb that slow reared tastes better my lambs take longer to do but I get a higher price. It does not bother me if my pigs take longer either however some of the people who offered opinions didn't get my business. Mangas are renowned for Palma ham and salamis which carry a premium price as we offer a speciality meat offering they fit perfectly. I would prefer that an animal takes longer and isn't force fed cereals however long that takes. As long as you are making the right return I can't see anyone's problem. We don't generally do weaners - never have I'd rather know what happens to them bit like my children I chose to have them so I should be responsible for them till their deaths. Our ewes are Shetlands which are put to terminal tups and there is a good reason for this - I am a woman and not a big one! I'm the farmer and I can turn 50 -60 kg easily. The GOS while lovely are huge my last sow was about 200kg tamworths and manga are more my size! I believe there are many people out there who want good quality meats are reasonable prices per kg that has been naturally reared and has good provenance we have sold 39 lambs so far this year to the table from a start of 4 last year. We did 13 GOS last year which aren't the quickest to finish so I see no reason why tamworths and manga won't be equally as successful.
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i think you are in for a shock with the size of both mangas and tammies both will be over 200kilos when not fully mature yes manga cooked ham is good it could be an aphrodisiac
the pigs just might bother you with the feeding that they require even slow growing ones pigs require protein or they take even longer to get to a suitable finished weight where you are or could make a return
the quickest return you are likely to get is in two years time that is if you started yesterday and everything going to plan
good luck you will need it and notice how i have not mentioned kunnies that is because i am saving that can of worms for another thread
unlike you we are finding fast maturing pork is better and have tried the slow maturing route as well
in the end it is customer feed back that is important and if they come back buying more than a packet of sausages :farmer:
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If perchance you can't find the Tamworth stock you are looking for more locally, do consider mine. Hampshire isn't next door, but I regularly go as far as Bridport to visit a sister in under 2 hours, so could easily deliver to you down Exeter way. Available: 2 stunning, 4 month old, Tamworth gilts, Melody/Royal Standard bloodline, both registered. 7 birth notified weaners as from 1 August born 1 June, 4 boys, 3 girls, Ruby/Glen bloodlines. Tamsaddle
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GOS didn't shock me nothing I have tried thus far has! I come from lumberjack stock have raised 5 kids been divorced and survived being a battered wife- did I mention drug addicted brother a an alcoholic father? Why would any pig shock me?
FYI I already have a waiting list for my pork having done GOS and it's for more than sausages. I only sell sausages to my customers who have half a pig or more. I average 190 a pig for pork more for sausages and bacon.
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Good luck with whichever breed you decide on, sounds like you got it all sorted :)
You know yourself your capabilitys and the market you are aiming for and that's all that matters.
I've not been a member of this forum for long and have noticed that there are some people who have very strong opinions that can come across as either very patronising or just plain rude! HOWEVER..... I'm sure that they all mean well and are just trying to be informative and helpful :thumbsup:
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i am tempted to come back into this but i feel it would be a waste of time as the impression i get is that the originator could advise others
i think i will add a statement at the bottom of my future posts but that would cause offence as well cant do right for doing wrong :farmer:
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Good on you horsemadmummy! I agree with what you say and think there is a tendancy on here with some people to think that any thinking away from the norm or what they think is right is just batty and you need your head examing.
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On another note to do with a post sylvia put. I agree often the market is saturated, but, and I am sticking my neck out here. One of the problems from my experience is that people go into pigs and sell the weaners with no name and no reputation and they don't do their research. They are unwilling to take things slowly and build up their reputation for excellent stock not just good stock, but excellent and do the best job they can by choosing the best breeding stock and being meticulous in selecting only the best piglets for breeding. They think it will be so easy to sell the weaners and end up selling them for around 25 quid becuase they are having to get rid of them in anyway they can, because they haven't got the contacts, the reputation and half the time they don't know a bad pig from a good pig and end up selling breeding stock with uneven underlines etc. It takes hard work and time to earn a reputation and in that time surely it is more sensible to say sell one litter a year, but a good litter, than buy any old crap and start breeding willie nillie and sell cheaply to whoever and whatever . Just my opinion. i hate showing but I think it is an excellent way of judging how you are doing in breeding pigs and would go to a showing person who wins consistanly then go down the road to joe blogs anyday if I was after breeding stock. Anyone can breed a pig but it takes a knowledgeable person to breed a good one.
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i find myself agreeing with you lynda on your last post
:farmer:
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omg robert, what an honour ;D hang on while I pick myself up from the floor! ;D
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well reply number 54 is your writing i am just agreeing with it therefore any backlash and it is you that said it and you will get it in the neck makes a change from everybody rounding on me for stating the obvious :farmer:
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lol robert, i don't see how they can as i suspect lots of breeders think that, but correct me if I am wrong everyone
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Ok folks - I've just noticed the replies are numbered :-[
I thought for one minute Robert had TOTALLY lost it ;) ;D
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if i lost it i would just need to find it again cant go about loosing things :farmer:
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We all have our afflictions Robert ;D