The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: minibn on June 18, 2012, 09:35:52 pm
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Good Evening
I would like some advice on how to get started about purchasing some sheep. I have never kept sheep before so this is all new to me.
I have read on this small holding website with regards to all of the stages which i would need to go through before i can actually get some sheep. It all seems a little bit daunting as there is so much legislation when it comes to sheep, unlike the more simple horse.
Please could anyone advise as to the best way to approch this. I know that we do claim for the single payment scheme from the RPA already, although im not aware of a CPH number.
I was looking at some Zwartable sheep and have decided that these are the sheep for me. Can anyone give me any advice on the things i should look out for with regards to a good quality sheep.
Many Thanks
Emily
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Sheep are rewarding, great fun and very very sweet!!! I am so glad we got some. We are just 9 months in and loving it! I am probably not the best to advise you on the legal stuff. Still learning myself and don't want to get anything wrong, however from our steep learning curve, here is some advice for practical stuff:
Make sure you have sturdy, fairly high fencing - depending on what breed you get, they will try to escape from wherever you want to keep them...
Bucket train them. small amounts little and often with a repeatable call. once you can get them to follow you with a bucket into a stable/enclosure/new field/trailer, it will make your life soooo much easier
Have a small area/stable where you can herd them into and easily catch them for inspection/treatment/shearing - invaluable and so much better than chasing them around a field
Check for fly strike EVERY DAY during the fly strike weather. It is easy to treat if caught early but disgusting and disasterous if not noticed. Keep a stock of fly strike preventative and treatment remedies.
if you want to breed, don't do what we did and let the ram leisurely take his time over the ladies....it will give you a very long drawn out lambing time....
If you want to start lambing, be prepared for the worst - buy the whole kit of everything you will ever need and hopefully you won't need it. We were prepared for the very worst and had a thankfully uneventful lambing
Dont expect to make millions of pounds from sheep but do expect it to be fun challenging and a great experience. They are wonderful creatures - full of character and quirks. You'll love it!
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Here's what you do its not as daunting as you think. Enjoy your sheep they are great and addictive.
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/sheep/starting-with-sheep/ (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/sheep/starting-with-sheep/)
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You won't regret getting sheep. However take it slow. I'd advise getting some ewe lambs when weaning time comes or some young ewes so you can get to know them and their nature a little before plunging straight into tupping and lambing. We got far too big a starter flock (14 yearlings and three ewes in-lamb) when we started, we coped but in hindsight we would have started with fewer. We've since sold starter flocks of x3 experienced in-lamb ewes with a tup and two wethers (for his company) or just a few young ewes for tupping later down the line. Ewe lambs you would have a whole year+ to get to know before going down the road with a tup. It means for a good foundation relationship with your girls and you get to know their character traits and the handling/treating of them before the added joy, but also complication of lambing.
Also order the Tim Tyne book! There's a long waiting list but it sounds amazing with no bad reviews.
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If you are already claiming SFP you should have a holding number.
If you are interested in Zwarbtles I would recommend getting in touch with the breed secretary. Take a look at their website www.zwarbtles.org (http://www.zwarbtles.org).
Whereabouts are you located? Local smallholder clubs are good source of support and advice or if you are in the South East there is a fantastic club called the Small Shepherds Club that I found invaluable when I started out with sheep.
Although there is a lot to learn, don't be too daunted - each year you will face new challenges and will have your fair share of heartache but then again you will learn from each of these experiences and become a better shepherd. If you are keen to learn and to take advice, owning sheep can be a great source of enjoyment, particularly when you see your new lambs frolicking in the field.
Good luck!
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Tim Tyne's book.
Spend some time with sheep owners learning how to do the basics (feet/drenching/dagging)
Small sized flock to start with (we have 5)
We've bottle fed all of ours, the latter 3 I had from a day old so they are silly tame and easy to manage.
Agree with Haylo about the heartache (there's back ache too from my point of view as I have an old back injury!) but they are lovely, great fun and a great way to keep the grass down so we can get to our orchard ;)
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We went on short courses to learn foot trimming, lambing etc which was valuable hands on experience. It is true that sheep will die for no good reason, but don't be put off by that. they are tough little beasts. I would advise visiting several flocks of Zwartbles and buying from the people you trust as they will always offer after sales advice and guidance. I would also echo what has been said about starting small and buying young.
Happy shepherding.
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Check your fences
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Why have you decided on Zwartbles? They are fairly expensive to buy in, and it may be better to make all (or most) of your mistakes with some bog standard mules (or whatever the local breed kept by your neighbours is) or go with a more primitive (and smaller and easier lambing etc) shetlands or Hebs? Both should be cheaper to buy in, and also easy to change away from if you still fancy Zwartbles after a couple of years.
Oh and Tim Tyne's book and get yourself on their waiting list for the lambing course now!
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Thank you to all of you who have replied, i feel a little more confiendent in taking the plunge. I am also rather excited about getting some sheep. I will try and answer any of the questions which you have also posted, so here it goes.
I live in the Gloucester area, so i shall have a look to see if i can find a smallholder group in this area.
I decided on the Zwartable breed as i have read that they produce good fleece and i would like to try to create something from their fleece. I have seen that they are pretty large to. I would be looking for a large breed really. Although i am new to this so advice for any other breeds for this purpose would be great.
I am only planning on starting off with 4-5 and may increase it once i become a bit more experinced. Thank you for all the advice regarding age, type ect for this.
Where abouts could i find Tim Tynes book as it sounds like it could be a good read.
I shall keep you all posted about my progess
Thank you
Emily
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If you are interested in fleece, start with Shetlands - easy lamber, smallish ewes (and tups), good fleece, can be roo-ed rather than clipped, and lots of smallholder flocks in all parts of UK. Not all that expensive to buy, even for pedigree ewes. Lots of different colours too.... Meat excellent as mutton.
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Hi, The Somerset Smallholders Association have a Cheddar Group. Although they are quite a way from you they might have some local contacts and they are a helpful group. If you are starting with sheep and want fleeces, I would go with Shetlands or their crosses - they are quite big enough to handle until you get used to sheep :thumbsup: good luck.
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Where abouts could i find Tim Tynes book as it sounds like it could be a good read.
You'll find details of the book and links to buy in the smallholding books section (http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/books/) of the site (although it is scarce just now, a new edition is on the way I believe).
You might be able to get it direct from the publisher - http://www.goodlifepress.co.uk/sheep-1/the_sheep_book_for_smallholders (http://www.goodlifepress.co.uk/sheep-1/the_sheep_book_for_smallholders)
HTH. :)
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..." it may be better to make all (or most) of your mistakes with some bog standard mules (or whatever the local breed kept by your neighbours is)
LOL Anke.... I hid my mule lambs' eyes from this.... :o
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Hi
I thought that i would all give you an update about my sheep progress. Well i have finally sorted my CPH number and also now after speaking to animal health and being passed from pillar to post i also have a flock number. Im very excited now.
I think i have decided on shetland sheep after a few posts on here and also swatting up on the breed. I am also going to order the Tim Tynes book for some bedtime reading.
Is there any advice about any essential things which i need to get before i actually get some sheep?
If anyone can recommend sellers of shetland sheep that would be much appreciated.
Thank you
Emily
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It would probably quite useful if you contacted the Shetland Sheep Society (or if you give me your area I can send you contact details for the local area representative), and speak to some breeders near you. Most of them will be happy to talk to you and show off the flock (although in this weather not looking at its best...).
I started off with some lambs (Shetland Txl Xes and pure Shetlands) bought in the autumn and raised them for a year before I went onto breeding. You might want to buy some female lambs for future breeding and/or wether lambs for the freezer (Shetlands are best eaten at about 18 months or later), get most of the routine handling tasks under your belt and then get a tup for next autumn. That said lots of Shetland tups are halter and bucket trained and are not too difficult to handle. But you would need a separate field for the boys then.
My shetlands have never tried to escape, and we have a mix of fences, from good sheep netting with electric top wire to more dire three strands of sagging wire (in rented fields I have to add), but good fencing all round is probably safer ;D . Shetland ewes lamb quite readily outside, preferably in a smaller field where you can spot any ewe lambing quite quickly, and should then be penned up preferably undercover (or in a pen on the egde of the field if no cover/shed/shelter is available and the weather is reasonable). I have so far not had to help any of my shetland ewes lambing, when they were bred to a Shetland tup.
I can recommend Tim Tyne's lambing course (details on his website - viableselfsufficiency.co.uk I think) as well as his book.
The only drawback is that purebred they are not a commercial option, as the lambs are slow growing and won't make 40kgs until the next summer. However white Shetland ewes are now used a bit more when crossed with a texel or Charrolais tup, and then the lambs should be ready by winter for sale.
Hope this helps.
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Shame that you have been put off buying Zwartbles through this forum. For a smallholder looking to have some fun with sheep they are ideal, very friendly and enjoy being fussed unlike most other breeds! They are also quite addictive so encourage new comers to consider showing and the fleece is good for felting, I understand. The meat is delicious, a real gamey flavour. In all they are worth the money as you will get it back when you come to sell your own, unlike the other breed suggestions made. :innocent:
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If you have reasonable pasture get a commercial type.
Your lambs will return a better grass-meat ratio and selling any should be a lot easier than looking around for a buyer for 'smallholder type breeds' such as Shetlands and Zwartbles.
Shetland will do fine if your farming on rough marginal land as will all the other native breeds.
All sheep more or less need the same care, so my advise is get whatever the farm next door has.
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We live in Devon near Okehampton and have an ever growing flock of shetlands they make great mummies!
we cross some of our girls (who are experienced lambers) with a suffolk ram and produce great commercial lambs for the freezer without problems and mostly twins too!
we have a chocolate box of colours and markings from white fleckets to pure black with galmogets, morran, grey and fawn katmogets thrown in too!
we have some larger breed ewes too which we use our shetland rams on and get the same results for commercial lambs.
can't praise the breed enough we do have some cracking lambs that will be ready from the end of august they can be registered if you want (we have 35 lambs in total) various colours.
anyone who is interested can message me or give me a call on 07725631611 we have uncastrated ram lambs, ewe lambs also some shetland x kerryhill ewe lambs too.
We also have two tups a morran (mac) and a galmoget (george) who can be 'borrowed' if anyone is interested
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If you are looking for shetlands, Richard at monnow sheep has lambs and yearlings available, priced at £75 and he will deliver. We got our 5 lambs from him last year and are going to look at some more next week.his web link is www.monnowsheep.co.uk (http://www.monnowsheep.co.uk)
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thats almost double what you can get registered shearling/hoggs for locally if you look
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do you know of any other Shetland breeders near Hereford please horseandmummy.
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we are still novices but are happy to do most things on our own now.
in our 'sheep kit' we have (and mostly dont use but they are there if we need them....):
crovect (prevent fly strike)
fly and maggot spray (if you get fly strike)
jeyes fluid (a good alternative to the spray)
iodine solution for any cuts
purple spray for when we want pretty colours...also good for cuts
dagging shears (electric) and spare oil for the shears
foot trimming shears
ear tagger and tags
lube, gloves, iodine spray, colostrum,bottle and lamb milk powder if you are going to breed
good fences
sheltered and enclosed area to bring them into to clip, vaccinate etc
Also make sure you had your flock movement book and medication record book
It is such fun - I wouldnt change my sheepies for the world. good luck
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I'm and Emily and got started this year! Bought 2 orphan ewe lambs very cheap from a farmer friend (I work on dairy farms so fortunately am a well known farming face in the area so got a lot of stuff for free to help me start up). Will buy a couple more ewes before tupping time, and hopefully loan a ram. Not focusing on a particular breed to start with, but taking what I can get until I'm more experienced.
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if you want to find shetlands near you try your shearer if they are any good they will have their little book and will know who has got what - shetlands should all have been sheared by now as mid june is when coat is best to take off so a good shearer will know who they have done, the quality and also who has any for sale. Shearers too are worth their weight in gold. mine is a lady and she helps me with feet and all the other stuff that usually wants doing around that time!
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I have read the whole of this topic and think there are some pushy posts insisting shetlands are the way to go. No offence meant to anyone but perhaps it would be better just to have 'sheep' to start with and take a little more time deciding on the eventual breed. As you originally wanted Zwartbles because of their fleece and lamb size it seems stange to go for shetlands now, but there are many sheep that would suit your purpose. The best advice is get what your neighbours have. (sorry can't remember who posted that). I would reccomend badger faced welsh if you were on a hillside with rough grazing like we are, but your needs are different. Go to a local sale and buy yourself some good sound shearlings at the market price, or buy some gimmer lambs to get used to before they become mums, but try to take someone with you to advise.
Wishing you all the best in your new adventure.
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We have had a variety of sheep over the years:- Dartmoor Greyface, Shetlands, Blueface Leicesters, Suffolks, Llanwenogs, variety of Mules and Hebrideans and all are good for different things - list what you require ie easy to handle, fleece / meat and then go to a few agricultural shows / markets and speak to other breeders of different sheep and visit the web pages for different breeds.
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I agree with last two posts we settled on Shetlands having tried more commercial breeds. Whilst we love them and they have many wonderful points they won't be for everyone. Take your time do some research and speak to people who should be more than willing to talk about their girls! You need to make the right choice for your circumstances and requirements because there will be the highs and inevitable lows once you get started. A friend of mine asked what happens on Christmas morning and the answer was kids have to wait for breakfast and pressies till the 85 girls have been sorted!
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Shetlands and very rewarding sheep, they are very friendly. The fleece is wonderful and the carcase small but tasty. They are however masters of escape, stock fencing with barbed wire wire is the only thing to keep the little blighters in.
Sheep generally are pretty easy, although are always trying to kill themselves or just feel like giving up on life.
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Id get something easy with a high resale value. Lleyns, perhaps.
Dont start with bloody mules unless you like pulling lambs.
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I keep Lleyns and they are a very popular breed and highly thought of, even on the larger farms.
Not to big to handle. Lovely fleece (OH knitted a baby wrap for our new Grandaughter out of 1 of ours).
Very good milkers and easy lambers.
Lambs do well on grass and reach 40kg+ without hard feed.
I started with 6 yearling ewe lambs 7 years ago and bred them up to 80, selling the tup lambs for meat direct to slaughter and keeping the female lambs.
I cannot fault this breed and have never heard anyone run them down that knew what they were talking about.
Good pure or can be terminally sired with other breeds.
Much easier to sell than any of the 'smallholder' breeds.
www.llyensheep.com (http://www.llyensheep.com)
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We have only had our sheep a couple of months and I didn't know how to start either. We looked at various breeds at the Welsh Spring show, where each breed stand told us theirs was the best ;D . I was lucky enough to buy Tim Tynes book at the show too.
In the end I decided on coloured Ryelands because I didn't want escape artists and liked their fleece for spinning.
I must say the girls are very well behaved and laid back and never attempt to get out.
Sally
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we started off with a mixed bunch of pedigree rare breeds as someone was giving up the idea of a rare breed park. we also got rare breeds from the market but ended up with poor quality sheep so sold them on and started again. the mistake we made was not buying reg stock, just birth-notifed cast offs so when we got more serious, we had to completely strart from scratch again.
we chose our favourite and had hebrideans for a while, now we have changed to borerays.
zwartbles are big, so u need to bear in mind their weight when turning them over.
u need to look at resell value , registered quality stock will hold its value,[size=78%] [/size]what type of land/grass u have so it suits ur sheep and u dont need to buy in hard feed. chosing a breed that interests u is half the fun tho. zwartbles are v striking to look at., there is a flock near here and look lovely.
goodluck.
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Minibn, if you are still interested in Zwartbles you would be welcome to visit our flock and find out a bit more about them, we are based in South Shropshire (obviously no obligation to purchase). They are a lovely breed to own due to their good looks and friendly natures, can be a bit addictive though! Regarding size, the show sheep tend to be getting bigger and bigger(too big!), and we would only select our larger lambs for the showring, however they are by no means all massive and we have a range of sizes in our flock. One advantage of a slightly larger or commercial breed is that the slaughter lambs reach a good size and are ready for the freezer before the winter sets in.
Good luck with the breed you decide to go with
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I keep Lleyns and they are a very popular breed and highly thought of, even on the larger farms.
Not to big to handle. Lovely fleece (OH knitted a baby wrap for our new Grandaughter out of 1 of ours).
Very good milkers and easy lambers.
Lambs do well on grass and reach 40kg+ without hard feed.
I started with 6 yearling ewe lambs 7 years ago and bred them up to 80, selling the tup lambs for meat direct to slaughter and keeping the female lambs.
I cannot fault this breed and have never heard anyone run them down that knew what they were talking about.
Good pure or can be terminally sired with other breeds.
Much easier to sell than any of the 'smallholder' breeds.
www.llyensheep.com (http://www.llyensheep.com)
Funnily, I have - there seem to be a few strains of Lleyn about, some people seem to think they are flighty, but having kept them for the past year, this observation puzzles me.
I cannot reccomend them highly enough, if you like wool (I'm breeding that off mine). Easy lambing, milky mothers, will raise trips on lowland pasture. This year, I had 40 to lamb, I had to help one.
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There is the hillend flock of shetties near here, it's where my girls came from and I'll pm you details if you want them :thumbsup:
Oh i'm in Somerset ;D
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Donna...
Ahhh...you must have got your babies from the lovely Lesley! Mine were from her too... in fact... picking up another 3 on Thursday afternoon! They have produced some cracking lambs and putting the ram to my charollias created some absolutely FABULOUS meat lambs! I rate Lesley highly tho pretty scared stupid about her sheep being my competitors in the Midsomerset Show! LOL
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We bought half a dozen commercial crosses just to find out whether we liked sheep. Then spent a year looking at varieties, then bought the wrong ones. But it really doesn't matter. We like the ones we have and we're not farming pure breeds just for the sake of it. They're all rare for good reasons!
With commercial crosses you get experience in handling with fewer health complications. Why start by making a decision you don't need to make yet - or ever. Hint - most people like the breed they've got, and put up with their failures and foibles. So treat all advice on breeds with a pinch or two of salt.
Btw sheep aren't more complicated than horses. It's just that it usually isn't worth getting the vet to do to sheep what she does for your horses.
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Dont buy sheep unless ou want to spend your single farm payment on something?
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We bought a starter flock of 8 Zwartbles for £800. We nearly killed them day one Rhododendron poisoning but got through that thanks to strong black tea being forced down them. Then they got foot scald, quick spray and fixed. Then they got mites, injection required, which we did ourselves - steep learning curve. Vet said why did you get sheep lol. Now struggling to get Em sheared.
Been a bit of a nightmare but would I change them - no way. They are friendly tame, vocal animals that give me pleasure everyday.
Keep reading books, this forum is awesome for advice, ive been saved a few times and good luck.
They are rewarding, but I was once told that they are born to die, and will do their best to try lol