The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: warrenthewindmill on May 22, 2012, 02:49:33 pm
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I've been an accidental smallholder for 18 months and have lost a steady stream of hens and now ducks to foxes. We have 5 acres bordering a busy road on one side but fields on the other. Our duck pond, unfortunately is close to the hedge on the field side. I spotted a fox crossing the fields a couple of weeks ago early in the evening since when we have lost another couple of ducks.
All our poultry are completely free range but are put away at night. Less than two hours ago I was sitting in the sunshine on a lounger, about 50 feet from the pond but with my back to it. I heard the sound of 10 ducks taking to the water and turned round to see an adult male fox (I think)
It saw me and legged it back through the hedge!
I've seen this question asked often online. Is there any effective way of keeping foxes away? I'd prefer not to shoot them but could get a shotgun licence and would be prepared as a last resort to do this.
Every other suggestion I've seen seems to divide opinion as to whether they are actually effective or not. So the following spring immediately to mind but I doubt this list is conclusive: Human Male urine, electric fences, alpacas, Lllamas, Guinea fowl, ultrasonic fox deterrents.
Speaking to a new neighbour I am told that this area has never had hunts across it and so there are plenty of foxes around. He reckons he's seen groups of adult foxes together on many occasions over the 20 years he's lived in the area. Is there any reliable way of deterring foxes short of a gun? If not I'll apply for a licence. If so I'll take that option.
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you wont get a shotgun licence to kill foxes you need a bigger gun than a 22 rifle and it would be doubtfull if you would get a licence anyway best way is get somebody that has a gun to give them permission to shoot them :farmer:
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Why would I not get a licence? Does your reply mean you think guns are the only solution
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you do not have enough land for the backdrop if you can get close enough with the shotgun it will only be once and they don't just hand them out like ( licences ) lucky bags if you trap them you have still got to dispose of them :farmer:
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yuo can 'try' any way you like, but shooting is the sure way as robert suggests.
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Hi Warrenthewindmill. There were two kinds of fox, urban and rural. Rural kept to night because of hunting, urban has no fear and wonders about during the day anywhere. Since hunting was banned and shotguns are even harder to get the distinction has becomed blurred. Urine cannot be relied upon, although we use it along one boundary with success. But a 50 metre run is all I can manage to maintain as the first rain and the scent has gone. The other boundary has an electric line on top of a wall after a fox strike last Christmas in broad daylight. Problem with wire fences they can see their prey through them and they will keep coming around looking for a way in. When the energiser is down they can sense it. So you need a big secure fence.
If you joined a recognised clay shooting club you would get your shotgun licence. I have 36 gramme BB cartridges for foxes, but you won't get a clean kill even with those over 30 yards. It wouldn't be legal to use one on your land because you need to allow 400 metres for shotfall. No chance of getting a rifle certificate nor anyone to use one on your land because of consideration of the landing of the bullet in the event of a mistake, which could be a mile away.
The only method I think you could rely on is a pair of large dogs. Friend of mine had Ridgebacks in South Africa. A lion got into the compound and they killed it. The bitch (with pups) in the conservatory went through a glass window to help the dog fight it. I suggest a pair of them as they are very quiet, but ruthless.
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So the problem with gun licences is proximity to the road?
A friend of mine has a Ridgeback so I can imagine what they might do to a fox. We have three labs already so another two might be a bit much.
You say that urine has reported some success so of the less than 100% alternatives does anyone have a view on the most reliable? So for example if I installed ultrasonic fox deterrents and urine and etc etc.
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Have you got a local gamekeeper? ???
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So the problem with gun licences is proximity to the road?
A friend of mine has a Ridgeback so I can imagine what they might do to a fox. We have three labs already so another two might be a bit much.
You say that urine has reported some success so of the less than 100% alternatives does anyone have a view on the most reliable? So for example if I installed ultrasonic fox deterrents and urine and etc etc.
the problem with the gun licence is controlling where the bullet will land if you miss, ie the backdrop. to my knowledge there is no known reliable fox deterent, they learn too quick. however, i would walk the labs regularly around the borders to your land, peeing as you go! the combined scent would act as a deterent, but not for ever. there is probably a local fox remover/ gamekeeper. try them?
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We have had 3 chickens killed by a fox on one occassion he came back 3 times in one morning, doesn't seem to be afraid of humans. Our 12yr old lab chased him one morning but don't think that will deter it. We got the number of a chap with a gun and license at the local feed mechants and he comes out to shot rabbits and to try to get the fox, but no luck yet. I don't like killing things but needs must sometimes.
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Our local feed merchants have tried themselves to get someone with a gun to assist with their rabbit problem but the shooter failed to show! I think they have plenty of choice (shooters and foxes) locally.
So 21st Century man is defeated by a fox?
What if I could find the sett, rather than wait for him to come calling again? BTW we are very definitely in the country here so don't think the fox would be urban. That said, striding across our field in search of lunch displays the confidence of an urban fox.
Or does it simply mean we have to live in the knowledge we will suffer regular losses if we insist on letting the ducks and hens roam free?
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urban foxes are regularly released in rural settings. the 21st century fox is foiled only by a man with a gun or a sophisticated fence.
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Urban foxes are released regularly, illegal though it is. Farmer we bought some hens from had two released that wandered straight into his yard where his chickens were. They were shot moments later. Even if you shoot them they will be replaced so you can't rely on that either. If you don't have a Countrywide cull the problem will always exist. 20 years ago it was all different. 20th Century man had the balance right. A ban on hunting with hounds and an overly-stringent control of shooting has created the problem and it won't now go away.
So I think Warreninthewindmill permanent enclosure is really the only option.
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hear hear. ba....d things.
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I have a ridgeback - we had foxes in our paddock when we moved in 5yrs ago - they all moved out within a matter of weeks and haven't seen one since....
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I agree with In the Hills and see if you can get a local gamekeeper to help you out. You could try the other methods of deterrent, it certainly wouldn't hurt but once a fox knows it can get an easy meal it will keep on coming back. Shooting is the only way to control foxes. Deterring them only moves the problem onto someone else or defers the inevitable attack. If shooting is not an option then penning your poultry in with electric netting is a solution.
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you do not have enough land for the backdrop if you can get close enough with the shotgun it will only be once and they don't just hand them out like ( licences ) lucky bags
You don't need to own any land to get a shotgun certificate. I had one before I moved to my smallholding and just live in a detached house with a small garden. You just need to have an ok reason to justify having one and that was (in that case) that I was keeping guns left to me after my father's death. I would have thought they would have no problem with a certificate for vermin control on 5 acres.
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i thought that a shotgun wasnt legal for fox.
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BASC - Lamping Code of Practice - Sorry dont know how to put the link up to this site but it gives some ideas as to what is allowed/appropriate and safety measures.
Where I live you informally mention it to the gamekeeper and he tends to sort it out or one or other of the farmers locally knows .... a man who can ;) ;D
Unfortunately its the only real way of dealing with the problem :( but if you dont Mr Fox will deal with all your poultry sooner or later.
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i thought that a shotgun wasnt legal for fox.
You can shoot foxes with a shotgun.
Some useful info here (http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/59807-can-you-shoot-fox-with-shotgun/)
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from the site above:
'' Shotguns with large magazine capacities (more than two cartridges) offer the user a significant advantage when dealing with large numbers of pests.For ranges up to 30 metres a 12 bore shotgun with a load of not less than 36 grams of large shot such as no. 1 or no. 3 is recommended as an effective alternative to a centrefire rifle for fox control.''
thanks useful to know.
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you can shoot whatever you want with a shotgun as to the legality that is a different matter
henchard do you have a shotgun licence just now
as i said before they don't give out gun licences like lucky bags :farmer:
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We have lost 2 chickens in 5 years. Fox walks past the chicken run, we've seen him :-\ I think our 'luck' comes from the fact that a)our chickens are housed near the house and people are about a lot, b) our chickens are mostly kept in a very large enclosure with electric poultry fencing but the 2 that were killed had flown out (we trim wings now) c) we have goats next to the chickens which I believe play some part in deterring the foxes?
You can spot the released urban foxes, they are very cocky and not scared of man. The rural ones seem to me to look healthier and are less likely to be bolshy.
If you shoot a dog fox, doesn't another dog fox move onto its territory? The farmer across the road has taken out several foxes in the past few months but new ones keep on coming.
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henchard do you have a shotgun licence just now
Yes we (my wife and I) still have certificates.
You just have to notify the old and new Police authority when you move; so the old certificate transfers in effect. Although our guns are on loan to a friend until I get round to installing the gun cabinet.
Our son had a certificate at 16.
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not as easy for a new aplicant now :farmer:
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Here in Brittany we are plagued by foxes, despite the hunt which meets (legally) twice a week during the season to shoot anything that moves and (illegally) unregistered hunters and their dogs. They also have 'special' Saturdays out of season to hunt foxes.
We use Heras panels around our duck enclosure and mains voltage electric fencing (tallest we can buy) around the chicken, turkey, geese, and sheep enclosures.
After five years..............., fingers crossed................, no losses to four-legged marauders.....................!
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A large cage trap and then shotgun and then shot gun to dispatch. Shotgun certificates are straight forward to get, I got mine 2 years ago again at the time had no land was a member of no clubs etc, you do not need to given a reason for wanting one, however you may be asked why you want one, dispatching of trapped fox thats been eating my chickens seems resonable. You will need secure storage, usually a purpose built cabinet with 2 locks is sufficent. If you want to shoot the fox a would recommend a rifle, this are harder to get, your 5 acres may be approved dependent on the lye of the land hill etc, the bullet needs to hit something if you miss, but a FAC which is required for a rifle is a little bit more complex to get, however if you don't have a criminal record or a history of mentel health problems, you should be able to get one just might have to jump a few hoops.
With trapping get some meat in but don't set the trap so the fox gets use for 3-4 days then set should get the fox, other trapping tips, bigger is better and use gloves to avoid the human smell. You will never stop foxes completely, so keeping stock in pens does keep them safe, but also keeping numbers down will help.