The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Rosemary on May 16, 2012, 08:25:57 am
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Didn't quite know where to put this.
I'd be interested to know if folk on TAS grow comfrey or not.
If you do grow it, can you tell me a bit about your experience, good and bad
If you have decided NOT to grow it, can you tell me why.
And if you don't know what it is, tell me that too :)
Thanks.
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Comfrey is a herb and used also in medicines, hav'nt grown any, maybe I will give it a go.
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I have bought some seeds and am just waiting for a bit of good weather to plant anything!!! I have heard that it spreads, but am happy to keep in check and add to my compost bin.
My grandfather, as well as being a miner, was a keen first aider (St Johns Ambulance) and herbalist. He used comfrey a lot and famously 'healed' a man in his villliage's shattered leg with daily hot comfrey poultices after the local hospital had discharged him saying they couldnt do anything else and he wouldnt walk again. He also used it on a canary's leg!! IT has some very unusual properties according to an old reference in my 'Welsh Herbal Medicine' - for example the ground root in ale is reported to cure a bad back gained from wrestling, but beware - ' the involuntary flowing of the seed in men by gotten therby' !!!! Sorry if your having your breakfast!!
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Nope -
Tried seeds - no.
Tried root cuttings - no.
Tried transplanting a friend's plant - no.
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The other name is Knitbone , because it has a very high calciun content, very good on compost heaps or ploughed in as a green fertiliser, where I used to work it grew well on the edges of woods , so likes it well shaded.
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Yes. Marvelous stuff.
I inherited some in my last allotment and (once squashed into an old dustbin) it gave me a constant supply of really good liquid fertiliser.
I dug up some roots when we moved here and it seems to have transplanted well. It doesn't spread directly but does self seed quite easily (Unless you have Bocking 14) I got round this by always cutting it before the flowers set seed.
Wouldn't be without it.
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We have lots, it does spread like mad, but we have the space, and I think it is quite pretty.
I have passed plants on to friends. I have another friend who comes and picks them, in flower, for her posies for events (weddings etc)
Makes a lovely, (and stinky ::) ) liquid feed.
Best of all, it is generally teeming with bees, they love it! :thumbsup:
Suzie, you are welcome to try again with a plant if you want.
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around here we used to have loads of large pig breeders and most if not all would have a patch of land to grow comfrey usually well away from gardens or crops as it spreads like made they used it for the pigs its has good health properties. the pig breeders have long gone 30 years or more the the comfrey is still found on verges and waste land around the farms.
we have nursed pigs back to health when they have gone down with good results and wilted comfrey has been feed to sows with litters. goats love it too.
note to self must check today how its growing.
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Suzie, you are welcome to try again with a plant if you want.
Thanks Rosie Posie - I'd love to. Can I come by Friday afternoon on my way back from work?
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Yes , i have a bed of about 50 at present . This will increase to about 300 as and when i can dig more ground .
I use some to make liquid feed , the rest the horses eat .
I only grow bocking 14 , so no probs with spreading .
Have had many broken bones over the years and can verify that it does aid healing , cuts too .
The benefits far outweigh any downside .
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Yes!
I feed it to the animals and make comfrey oil too, perfect for a foot massage at the end of a hard day :love:
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Suzie, you are welcome to try again with a plant if you want.
Thanks Rosie Posie - I'd love to. Can I come by Friday afternoon on my way back from work?
can we make it next friday? I am being descended on by a houseful tomorrow and not sure what the itinery is yet ;) :D
ETA housefull of guests that is, not comfrey :D
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Yes - I'll send Paul round at some point. :D
Thanks
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Can't stop it growing round here.
I think it's pretty, the bees like it, haven't tried it for broken bones or compost yet. The goats eat it (of course!)
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I've heard of it but apart from that haven't got a clue about it or what it looks like. Has anyone got a pic please?
Sally
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(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/jaykayg/c6569335.jpg)
Quite hairy leaves. The flowers on mine are a bit bluer than this.
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Thanks Jaykay. It doesn't even look familiar to me but it is pretty. When I get my herb patch sorted out I might try to grow some.
Sally
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I used to have it back in Yorkshire and it grows well here too....all round my pond. The sheep mow it when in that spot, horse is not that bothered, and of course the bees love it (I dont bother making liquid feed as everything ((well almost)) is planted in 50% muck)
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I grow it, and my dad digs up any that spreads at home for us ... the goats love it, the pigs & chickens love it, the bees love it (and I love them) so everyone's a winner!
It also grows "wild" around here, theres a brook quite close that has loads
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Anyone grow it as an animal feed ie to substitute for other feeds?
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It dries nicely, so I feed comfrey and nettle hay to the goats and rabbits. Not instead of anything per se but while they are eating that, they aren't eating the bought in stuff ;D
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Anyone grow it as an animal feed ie to substitute for other feeds?
not personally. but i think its covered here iirc
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Comfrey-Present-Lawrence-D-Hills/dp/0571246710/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337198349&sr=1-4 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Comfrey-Present-Lawrence-D-Hills/dp/0571246710/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337198349&sr=1-4)
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I started to read the Lawrence Hills book today - that was what prompted the question :)
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its a good book, i think one of my first ever tas posts was the nutrient analysis of comfrey. its amazing stuff, ive had a comfrey addiction for many years.
here.
just for reference:
In his book “Comfrey, Past Present and Future” Hills listed the results of analysis of Comfrey grown at Bocking.
Comparative Nutritional Analysis of comfrey, compost and manure
Material Water % N% P % K % C:N
Farm Yard Manure 76.0 0.64 0.23 0.32 14:1
Wilted Russian Comfrey 75.0 0.74 0.24 1.19 9.8:1
Indoor Compost 76.0 0.50 0.27 0.81 10:1
He also made Comfrey juice by using 14lbs of comfrey leaves in a 20 gallon drum. Again the results of the analysis are shown below.
Material DM N P K
Tomorite 0.1410 0.0130 0.0139 0.0093
Comfrey 0.4090 0.0140 0.0340 0.0059
DM – dry matter, N – Nitrogen, P – Potash, K – Phosphorous
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there are numerous studies that demonstrate the negative effects of comfrey - these have been known for decades. for example -
this is an abstract 2010. Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part B: Critical Reviews
Volume 13, Issue 7-8, 2010
Special Issue:
Comfrey has been consumed by humans as a vegetable and a tea and used as an herbal medicine for more than 2000 years. Comfrey, however, produces hepatotoxicity in livestock and humans and carcinogenicity in experimental animals. Comfrey contains as many as 14 pyrrolizidine alkaloids (PA), including 7-acetylintermedine, 7-acetyllycopsamine, echimidine, intermedine, lasiocarpine, lycopsamine, myoscorpine, symlandine, symphytine, and symviridine. The mechanisms underlying comfrey-induced genotoxicity and carcinogenicity are still not fully understood. The available evidence suggests that the active metabolites of PA in comfrey interact with DNA in liver endothelial cells and hepatocytes, resulting in DNA damage, mutation induction, and cancer development. Genotoxicities attributed to comfrey and riddelliine (a representative genotoxic PA and a proven rodent mutagen and carcinogen) are discussed in this review. Both of these compounds induced similar profiles of 6,7-dihydro-7-hydroxy-1-hydroxymethyl-5H-pyrrolizine (DHP)-derived DNA adducts and similar mutation spectra. Further, the two agents share common mechanisms of drug metabolism and carcinogenesis. Overall, comfrey is mutagenic in liver, and PA contained in comfrey appear to be responsible for comfrey-induced toxicity and tumor induction.
However, I think this article gives a balanced - non hysterical overview!!
Emma t x
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Don't like the sound of that, Emma, but I would still like to grow it. Not sure if I have enough space though especially if it's going to take over the garden. I wonder how it would do in pots. Anyone know? If anyone near me has some to spare, I would be grateful. I'm in shropshire.
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There is more than one type of comfrey. The one recommended for garden use is Russian Comfrey, which was trialed by Lawrence Hills at Bocking way back when, and the 14th cultivar in the trial was found to be the highest in nutrients, hence Bocking 14. The wild British version is much smaller and has light yellow flowers.
I use Bocking 14 here as a liquid feed; a mulch for certain plants; dug in to the planting holes of tomatoes, cucumbers, chillies and potatoes; a dyestuff (I keep trying but without too much success); in compost; I allow sheep to graze it, supposedly in moderation but some Soays have demolished 100 plants and grazed them right out, without any apparent ill effects, but I don't dry it to add to hay yet; it attracts bees and other beneficial insects in droves; I use hand cream made from it but I don't make that myself. I am aware of its medicinal properties but have not had cause to use it yet.
Brilliant stuff :trophy:
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Hi Pikililli
In experiments about toxicity it is quite common to feed nothing but the substance in question. That way, a sufficent amount is ingested to show up in blood tests. The trouble is, it doesn't replicate the amounts that you would feed an animal in real life. Does the experiment that you have found state how much comfrey was given and what type it was? :)
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I dont know about comfrey but I do like to be comfy ;D ;D ;D
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I think it was common comfrey, fed to 8% of diet....
It is interesting that comfrey is from the same family as ragwort....and we all *NOW* know to wear gloves when pulling ragwrot.....
at the end of my last post i meant to put a link to this .....
http://www.herbsarespecial.com.au/free-herb-information/comfrey.html (http://www.herbsarespecial.com.au/free-herb-information/comfrey.html)
it makes quite an interesting read and I think a balanced overview of comfrey research.....both scitentific and anecdotal !!! Make your own minds up :-)
My horse fractured her skull two and a half weeks ago...we have masses of comfrey round here, I didnt give her any.
Emma T x
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well, ive read that and lifted this section.
Can the results of a baby rat test case, where they were fed extremely high doses by injection, have relevance to the effect of adult humans using comfrey? Noting that one comfrey leaf contains approximately one milligram of alkaloid in this particular test project, it is possible to give a similar dose level for man. As an average man is about 70kg it would be necessary to use the alkaloids from 19,880 leaves to produce a comparative dose level, and possible toxicity. As rat deaths occurred at levels equivalent to comfrey 28 times their body weight, it has been estimated that a man would need to consume 19,880 leaves, for a possible, similar effect. If humans were as vulnerable as baby rats to liver damage; and if these figures were less speculative, then it could be calculated that it would take 16 years to accumulate sufficient alkaloids to produce any detectable change in liver function. This would require eating, approximately, 100g of comfrey leaf, every day, based on each large leaf measuring an average 60cm, which would make 5- 6 large leaves, a day. Therefore, in order to reach the dose level at which the test showed that change in liver function occurred; it would take a man 48 years. Liver damage would result at around 150 years
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Interesting stuff.
It seems somewhat obvious to me that if a herb is potent enough to heal, then it is potent enough to have other effects too :) What's the quote... "The poison is in the dose"? The dose makes the poison. Plus studies on isolated compounds neglect the role that other compounds in the same leaf may have.
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Yeh - yorkshire lass...that is my opinion. I havent decided yet....really! you can read any amount of research which will contradict and argue the different stances.
I must admit i am a bit cautious about anything 'herbal' because there is no surefire way of controlling dosage! Apparently comfrey, for example, can have varying amounts of the different 'active ingredients' depending on when it is picked, and how it is grown, harvested and presented.
Would you take paracetamol if the package said 'may contain any amount of paracetamol from 0.01grams to 10 grams' ??
Also if an animal naturally grazes various vegitation (in with its normal fodder which is freely available) - fine, but i dont actively go picking and feeding herbage for them. ie we have willow growing at the perimeters of the fields, if the sheep or horses eat some ok but i am not going to harvest and feed it to them.
Just, an interesting debate though!
Emma t
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We have it all over the place but mine has the yellow flowers. I use it for feeding my plants. Suppose to make a good poltice for wounds.
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I've planted some Bocking 14 cuttings this year. I'm hoping to go biodynamic eventually (yes, all my neighbours think I'm mental) and comfrey is one of the 'super herbs'.
I'm looking forward to using it. My husband might not be so keen on the "tea" I'm going to make for the garden, though... He doesn't like the smell of rotting vegetation. Frankly, who does?
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Have bought and planted 2 different varieties 10 years ago (none B14) and now it's everywhere. I do make liquid feed from it and put it on the compost. Leaves spread around seedlings are also keeping slugs underneath the comfrey ( so do Rhubarb leaves) and you can pick the slugs off in the morning. Bees love it but the tall vareity I would not choose to plant again, it will take over our whole garden in no time however much I share with other gardeners - too late now :( ...anyone in Fife want some ;D ;D ?
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I have Bocking 14, from the Organic catalogue originally, I htink it's about 10 plants, they grow well, don't spread, I use for "muck" tea (with some goat manure), goats also eat it (given to them a few leaves a go), I cut it all down late in the season and chuck onto muck/compost heap... so good all round.
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We grow a bed of comfrey (thanks to fleecewife!). Used it a bit last year as a liquid feed, have masses this year so will be looking for even more uses!
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I down loaded the ebook version of Lawrences comfrey past present and future it took a wee while to get into it and I'll read it several times .
I like the style and the presentation . it's a pity that most modern day writers are not so honest or skillful , most seem to use flawed data and take it as gospel without ever doing any research or thinking thing through themselves ...... So much for our current education system.
I now have several small comfrey ( Bocking 14 plants ) in my garden. I hope to use it as part green matter in my " compost in 18 days Berkley Method " project .
I want it included in the general compost mix for the trace elements in my soil lesss growth medium .
As I have a glasshouse and loads of plants in it I'm hoping to make the liquid plant feed and put a few pop bottles of it in the garage deep freeze for use in between making up new batches.
I also want to drink the tea infusion you can make to see if the tonic effect will give me the odd boost and help with my disabilities.
I've recently met some people who have a few plants , they make plant feed and also feed it to the chickens & the pigs . When I next see them I'll take the idea with me of them growing more to use in the spring & summer to have a good protein feed at little expense for their stock .
Though it may be difficult for they are kind of small holding on a , " Scree slope of crumby Welsh limestone" that has next to nothing wrt soil content deeper than four inches but they may well now have that problem sucessfully in hand .
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my chickens are not interested in the slightest in comfrey - I wish they were ;D :&>
I always have been hesistant on internal uses or as wild food but would be happy to use it again as a poultice or in an ointment :&>
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Going by how vile it smells when turning it into a liquid feed, I don't feel inspired to drink it ;D ;D :P . Although I do drink nettle tea and nettles smell even worse than comfrey when rotting down. What I have found when trying to extract a dye from it, which I assume would happen when making tea too, is that there is so much slime (that mucilaginous word from way back :D ) that I can't use it as a liquid. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
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The other half and i found that if you plant it around the edges of your veg plot it helps to keep other weeds at bay, don't know why ???
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I know how ;D ...not even rhubarb thrives near it - but I wonder about the veg ??? :&>