The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Big Light on April 20, 2012, 08:17:43 am

Title: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Big Light on April 20, 2012, 08:17:43 am
BullbytheHorns had a number of questions posted on the welcome page however one which is probably quite interesting for everyone and needs its own thread is

I'm curious to what extent people have been able to make it to the situation where they are mostly self sufficient and/or are  generating any kind of dependable income.

Does any one make a dependable income and how do they do it? or are we all just living a nicer life by working 2 jobs?
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: MAK on April 20, 2012, 08:43:52 am
 My guess is that not many of us plan to be self sufficient but with time learn learn new skills and ways of producing and making as much as they can. We swap a lot too. After just 6 months ( May-June) we slashed our food bill and since then we frequently eat meals made exclusively with our own produce (meat,veg,cider,chutneys,jams and fruit).

As for generating income - This has to be planned and location and access to a market is key. I would guess that this is a real challenge and comes with some stress - There are many plus points related to working for yourself of course but essentially generating income to live the same life style as paid work would comes with many challenges. For example it takes quite a financial investment and lots of other challenges to generate income from pigs - planning permission, H&S compliance, Vet bills, tax returns, VAT etc etc then you have to kill, butcher and manufacture, transport  and finally sell the produce.

There is a third option or group.
Semie self sufficient, low expenditure pensioners. I cashed in my chips at 50 and get a small monthly pension that is more than enough for us to live on now that we produce most of our food and live a very modest lifestyle.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Crofterloon on April 20, 2012, 11:28:38 am
I thought about this a lot but came to the inclusion that I was better off working for someone else
and enjoying my hobby or way of life.

Thats just me and we are not all wired up the same thank goodness.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: suziequeue on April 20, 2012, 04:00:47 pm
Our smallholding venture is a bottomless financial pit......... and I couldn't think of a better way to spend my money!!!!

We don't have kids and shrouds ain't got pockets - so what better way than to plough what we've got back into the local economy in exchange for some joy and creative energy. The meat, fruit, cider and fresh veg (I could go on....) that we get out of it is a bonus and I am ever grateful that we don't have to rely on income from the smallholding to keep us afloat.

I work away from home during the week so I probably have a bit of a rose tinted view of the place compared to my husband...... But even still - he is very content as well.

We would be aiming to be in the semi self sufficient, low expenditure pensioner category by the time I retire. Hopefully by then we will have got all the tools and built all the contraptions we could ever possibly need and be running efficiently enough so that we can continue the lifestyle into old age.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: FiB on April 20, 2012, 05:09:02 pm
I'm in with SuzieQ, except its my OH that works away and we have a nine year old thrown into the mix - but he is a lot cheaper to keep than sheep!!.  I recon by the time some of my income streams come into fruition (cider orchard comes to mind) - I'll be too knackered!!!    We are trying to use this time of external income to improve our knowledge and resiliance.  Our current (tiny) income streams are Hay, eggs, lamb and the odd half a pig and the odd informal contribution from campers or people staying in our static.  Then a better income stream will come in a couple of years time when I can use my own willow for the living willow structures that I do.  It just might be possible to earn enough for the unavoidable outgoings and a very meagre life, once all the big improvements are out of the way (house fix, barn repairs, fencing, tools and equipment and a wodge put by for future bad luck and emergencies). I am in awe of those on here (Rusty et al) who are close to self sufficiency.  One of the many things I need to get better at is gardening - I dont have the habit yet.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: plumseverywhere on April 20, 2012, 05:30:06 pm
We are able to produce all of our own alcohol and Christmas/birthday presents for friends and family in the form of Wine and Baaath Time goodies, jams, chutneys etc
We are growing more fruit and vegetables each year (yr 3 this June) so able to support our large family. We barter with a friend for meat. Self sufficient in goats milk and will attempt cheese making again this year...

As far as generating income goes, Its Baaath Time is entering its second year so very early days from a business point of view but it does pay for holidays, the family's Christmas presents and I have been able to plough profit back into the business in order to expand. Without the goats I couldnt' make the soap so I do see this has smallholding generated income.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: katie on April 20, 2012, 05:50:07 pm
Our smallholding is a bottomless pit as well but we have income from eggs, apple juice, and lambs. we grow a lot of our own vegetables and have apples and plums from our large orchard. Christmas presents tend to include variations on the above and we also barter with other smallholders. Couldn't do it without outside employment ( husband) but every little helps, as somebody said!
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Castle Farm on April 20, 2012, 06:11:13 pm
I don't dare think what money I throw at this place,both from my OAP and 8 hours a week outside work, but I have built up a flock of nearly 80 Lleyn sheep (including this years lambs) in 6 years from the original 6, so they are worth a fair bit.

I have about 400 birds (Eating and hatching eggs) and they just manage to cover the feed bill and with a bit of effort I suppose make a small profit.

I have improved the house and 16 acres we have here and now feel the place is worth a great deal more than when we bought it.

The only problem is as you get older you get tired quicker and I'm getting that way now, so that has to be taken into account. You could never afford to employ someone to do the work you need to do.

It's a lifestyle and not a way to make money.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Bangbang on April 20, 2012, 06:33:30 pm
At present our setup runs at a loss and probably will do so for a few more years, till we get the experience
and set - up correct.
I think eventually we will break even, perhaps make a small profit, but we didn't go into
this smallholding with profitable intentions, we see this as a lifestyle not a
living.
I think someone else came up with the idea of how to make good money.
They bought a farm.

Another point, we all care for our animals and care costs, and as carers we tend to in my opinion
look after, spoil, our animals much more.

As we didn't plan our situation then it qualifies us as accidental  ;D

Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Big Light on April 20, 2012, 08:46:24 pm
Castle Farm if you can please tell us more about your chicken set up and how you break even / make a small profit.
thanks
BL
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Sandy on April 20, 2012, 09:19:16 pm
I have this converstation often with my hubby, its must be hard, we plough all our money back into the house and thats just maintainance, although we like our life too...not small holding but self emplolyed..if we had the oppertunity, money and fittness, smallholding would be a great way of life, I think most people years ago used to rent farms and land off large landowners, that way, more people could be tennant farmers or tennant smallholders then more people could have a chance at a wonderful way of life, keeping people fit and mentaly happy!!
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: sabrina on April 20, 2012, 09:26:28 pm
We don't make a living from our land but its a way of life we enjoy.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Sandy on April 20, 2012, 09:38:29 pm
I ment to add, people spend a lot more on other stuff that they think makes thier life better, nice to get excersise, fresh air and enjoyment!!
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: chrismahon on April 20, 2012, 09:44:20 pm
As MAK says to make an income you need a market and at the moment nobody is spending on anything but essentials. The DIY stores are full and the tradesmen are struggling. So I guess just breaking even is a great result.

Income 19s 6d, expenditure 20s 00d, result misery.
Income 20s 00d, expenditure 19s 6d, result happiness.

So I suppose with a limited income, like us, you need to tailor your expenditure to suit. Problem is we can't cut back any further on anything!

Poultry wise the only way I can see of making any profit is selling hatching eggs. That way you don't rear good birds as we did only to discover you can't sell them. But the market is flooded with unscrupulous traders and people aren't buying eggs for fear of being ripped off. Think Sabrina sums it up well.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: shropshire_blue on April 20, 2012, 10:26:42 pm
Agree with all of the above.  It's still early doors for us, but I don't ever see smallholding activities paying the rent for us.  So long as it pays for the extra land and barns and feed and fills the freezer I'll be happy.

The real benefit for us is the way of life - watching the calves grow up and get all excited each time they have a new area to explore - seeing the green shoots springing up over the veg patch and sticking two fingers up at Morrisons - listening to the little contented rumblings the ewes make as their lambs latch on for lunch...  Can't beat it!
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Small Farmer on April 20, 2012, 10:55:52 pm
We got here by accident. 

We bought a house with a little land 8 years ago with the idea we could put the horse on but it wasn't enough so the horse went to livery stables.  Then we noticed that we were surrounded by houses that also had a bit of land and  so we gradually got to manage about 8 acres in 6 different ownerships.  The horse came home with a companion rescue pony, I lost my job, we took in lodgers and sheep beat mowing.  OH got into bees and chickens along the way of planting an orchard which now produces loads of fruit

I now work for myself and our quality of life is immeasurable improved but I have to work quite hard to keep it all going,  There will be a point when I don't get enough work and we have to move to a smaller house, and we're hoping that coincides with wanting to do less because we both get pretty tired some days.

We used to think that we could retire into smallholding but it comes with a lot of physical work.
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: in the hills on April 21, 2012, 06:52:55 pm
No real plan here but doing what we can and trying to learn as much as possible. Aiming initially to lead a more sustainable life rather than being self sufficient as such.

So not thinking now about generating income but who on here believes they are somewhere near self sufficient? Or getting there? Some names were mentioned but being quite new on here not sure who you are or what you do.

Would love to hear about it and pick up some tips.  ;D

Think true self sufficiency must be pretty difficult  ???
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: deepinthewoods on April 21, 2012, 07:40:07 pm
mel,
 please dont scrap those sashwindow weights, theyre getting harder and harder to find, maybe put an advert in your local paper so somebody working with old windows has the chance to buy them, i get alot of mine this way and will pay up to a few quid each. ;)
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: Mel on April 21, 2012, 08:00:45 pm
mel,
 please dont scrap those sashwindow weights, theyre getting harder and harder to find, maybe put an advert in your local paper so somebody working with old windows has the chance to buy them, i get alot of mine this way and will pay up to a few quid each. ;)
Oh,Ok,Thank you so much! I did not realise  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dependable income / self sufficiency
Post by: bazzais on April 21, 2012, 09:01:43 pm
Yep another bottomless pit here. We are sort of halfway between a farm and a smallholding and it seems impossible to actually earn anything from it other than costs.

Have even been challenged by HMRC the losses are so bad, they think its a hobby business - I can think of far better hobbies that dont involve the stress or work!!

Bought the farm 3 years ago now and have made no money from it due to the huge capital expense of fencing, equipment, wages, flock expansion - but its  long term game this (or so I keep saying and muttering to myself)

I have never thought of being self sufficient - I did try to build a vege patch but a number of animals got in over time and destroyed it and too be honest I dont think I'd ever survive without working on the interweb thingy - but I spose that in a way that is self suffciency as I dont leave the farm to work for someone else I work from here all the time.

I spose it depends on what you view as self sufficiency - I would imagine that even the most self sufcient have to either sell or do work for someone else in some form or another - it would be hard to just live on the fruit and veg you grow and power your house by an old bicycle you found in a skip?