The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: melholly on April 10, 2012, 08:48:41 am
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Morning all,
Well I'm feeling out my depth and losing my confidence here with lambing about to happen. I've only got 1 (maybe 2) Polled Dorsets expecting and they've lambed before but it's my first time!
I'm all set up, planning on it all being natural outside (based in the SE) but have the barn set up just in case. Due dates are officially next week. Honestly though, I'm dreading it and feel very inexperienced and therefore at a detriment to the sheep instead of being an assistance.
It all happened this morning, after one of the worst nights weather this year I arrived to find 'Dolly' on her back, bleating away, shaking uncontrollably and in a filthy state from her back end etc. I feared the worst, was cursing fate that my 4 year old happened to see her like that (her favourite sheep) After ringing local farmer (such a help) I went back, pulled her over and she got up, v scared - she went back down 4 more times but she's had food and was left having joined other Mum Dors and standing up. Now aside from feeling a) stupid (nobody told me sheep can get stuck on their backs!) and b) a bit set back from the whole experience what was interesting was whilst on her back I saw Dolly's teats were slightly raised - about 1-2 inches. She's also wider than Dors. The reason I find this interesting is I'd assumed Dolly hadn't got in lamb as around 3/4 weeks ago Dors started to get a big milk sac and bigger teats which is clear to see from looking at her from behind whilst nothing of Dolly's has appeared to drop down, even accounting for her being caught by the ram in her next cycle. But looking at her on her back and looking at her width I now completely and utterly don't know and am feeling even more out of my depth! Is she or isn't she?!!
Mx
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Time will tell, relax. sheep are well know for getting on their backs. Did both get covered at the same time. Did you keep a date of when the tup was taken out.
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We've all been there, every single one of us has been a first timer at one stage. Even now with my vast 3 year experience (!) I come across things I haven't seen before. It's a constant learning curve but if you didnt go through it, you'd never learn anything. And this site is so helpful and supportive.
We had a ewe that tried to jump a fence and got her back foot stuck in the top rail. I thought she would die of fright but she's fine now so I'm sure Dolly will be fine. Some of our ewes look like they're ready to lamb and then they are the last to go, each one is individual so it's hard to tell from what you've said. You just have to keep an eye on them.
Tip: I always find that a cake or something goes a long way to getting help from the local farmer!
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The thing about ewes is they are female, some females have big boobs others have small ones, all quite naturally.
Some females produce a lot of milk others don't, some can feed from the teat others can't. Some females have their young early some late, some females need help most don't. Sit down with a cup of tea and think logically, oh sorry that's a male trait ;D ;D
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Mrs J - I've been bribing my farmer with so much wine he'll probably end up in AA meetings! But he has been brilliant . I started out with 3 of his orphans so did the bottle feeding and this November they'll hopefully go to the ram there. As I've only a few (3 orphans then I bought the 2 Polled Dorset Mums and their lambs last April so 7 in total so far) he's done my fly striking, shown me how to do their feet and taken the mums for shearing! But there comes a point when for me anyway you've just got to 'get out and do it yourself' so I've been resisting calling him as much as I can. Difficult as mine are a nightmare to catch and when needs be there's nothing like a sheep dog to round them up!
I just don't know if she is. I had it all clear in my head - simple, I had a Polled Dorset Ram in over 7 weeks to catch 2 cycles. He appeared to be a pretty good ram and all that. Both Dolly & Dors I thought were pregnant up until 3/4 weeks ago when Dors milk and teats suddenly appeared but nothing seemed to drop in Dolly. I thought she must have been caught on a different cycle but even allowing for that nothing seems to have happened until whilst she's on her back, wider than a bus, oddly shaped and with small teats but no 'sac' seemingly!!! Now I'm not so sure of my thoughts!
Ah nature, must you mock this ex city girl trying to learn!!!
Mx
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moleskins I was liking your post until the last sentence!!! I am a logical thinker - I had it all worked out but then nature throws me a dummy!
Thanks for your post though, the fact bits were useful and appreciated. :-)
Mx
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Moleskins .... really ..... good job that it is the female of the species that gives birth!!!! ;D
My first time lambing this year. Lost the first lamb. Just dead on the field and still mostly in the bag. Devastated and felt awful. Watched the others like a hawk.
The first ewe to lamb was the least one I expected. Nowhere near the udder development of some of the others. She obviously has milk and lamb doing well. Another ewe who looked noticeably smaller than the others has just had a really big ram lamb. Dont think you can tell.
If it helps .... I was really anxious after losing our first ever lamb ..... couldnt even tell she was about to lamb. Felt so guilty. I am not sure what happened. Three ewes have lambed since then. Everything that I read didnt help that much. I can see when they are in labour now but they havent really shown many of the classic signs. They have more or less stayed with the flock until the last 20 minutes and then made their own way to the field shelter and just given birth very quickly. No scraping of the ground, star gazing and not much pushing. Hope the next ones follow the same pattern.
I cant offer you any advice, just say that I know how you feel. Others on here are brilliant and Im sure will help you all they can. :)
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Thank you 'in the hills' I'm completely learning the hard way with everything I've tried since acquiring the smallholding 2 years ago! Ducks, pigs, sheep, ponies...all have come and gone in some way shape or form. Your first dead lamb must have been a bit scary and worrying , poor you but glad things are picking up. I think you are so right, books (Ive read loads), talking to experienced people (which I often find difficult having to ask what bits of terminology mean - thank god for google!) and even watching lambing in action on a local farm so far hasn't prepared me for what lies ahead. Nature has it's own way for every one of them I guess!
Funnily enough I was about to put my 'kit' together today - gloves etc but was a bit lost as to what I should spend money on for 2 ewes! A pack of 200 tail bands seems ridiculous. I've so far got antibac spray, paint spray,and will have gloves and been told to use bale rope for 'lambing rope' if needs be (not that I'd be confident about when to use it but bale rope seems a tad unhygenic?) and use rubber bands for tail docking tied tightly? Any hints and tips for putting together a sensibly priced lambing pack?!
Mx
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moleskins I was liking your post until the last sentence!!! I am a logical thinker - I had it all worked out but then nature throws me a dummy!
Exactly, nature is not logical and hence is known as 'mother' nature.
Sorry there's only a ;D smiley not a tongue in cheek one.
Just reading back, all sheep are hard to catch, but they are suckers for some cake, sheep cake that is not the sort you will be taking to your farmer friend. They say it takes a few days to train them to it, mine come galloping whenever they hear the tractor, and originally it took them 2 goes to realise that if I had a bucket in my hand it meant food.
Elastrator bands are very cheap so jump in and buy a box. Buy the best quality applicator you can mines a bit rubbish and makes the job harder.
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we used an old dressing gown cord for lambing rope but I'm sure farmers use all sorts of things! As for the bands, I find that by the time that some of them have pinged off the applicator before ever reaching the lamb, 200 won't last that long! Perhaps there is someone near you that could let you have a few?
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I wouldn't improvise on the bands, but curtain tie back cords from charity shops well washed make lovely soft lambing ropes, and if you can get a few in different colours is extra helpful. If you come to use them make a mental note of what colour went on what, ie blue rope on head, yellow left leg, green right leg. Then after a big deep breath you can gently pull the right bit in confidence.
(Says she who has never had to assist any of her own ewes, but plenty of friends ewes. It IS LESS scary when it's not your pet :-\)
So bands, spray or iodine, twin lamb drench (I have used honey in a pinch) but most important, your vets number(s). Having that one number you know you can call takes a very large weight off of a new shepherds shoulders!
Also coffee and chocolate ;D
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There was a thread on here a while ago about lambing box essentials. You can probably search for it.
Complete novice but I have - iodine for umbilicals, long gloves, short gloves, head torch, bottle, teat, colostrum sachets, towels, lubricator, heat lamp at hand, hot water bottle. Think thats it. If it comes to needing rope ..... I AM RINGING FOR HELP!!!! ;D
Catching them ..... yep ...... mine too are trained to the bucket. When we had them as ewe lambs they were unapproachable but it only took a couple of weeks and they started to respond. Go out several times each day and just give tiny amounts ..... ewe nuts or whatever you feed them. Mine are Soay and some are friendlier than others. Out of seven, four will eat out of your hand. A couple jump up like dogs and will have a cuddle. I spend time standing about with them when I can so that they dont always assume that I am there to do anything to them.
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great advice! Thank you. I'm am starting to feel bolstered once again and no doubt will keep posting!!
Shows you how important asking is though - I didn't even realise the bands would need an applicator! Doh! Thought they felt very tight!!
Mx
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I don't think you'll need the spray paint melholly with only two ewes ;D
I'm sure all these tv programmes are to blame, showing shepherds diving into their ewes back ends for every lamb. Relax - most ewes will lamb perfectly happily on their own, especially if you give them space to do so. Your job is to recognise if the unusual has happened and something has gone wrong, but please don't think all this up-to-the-elbow stuff is essential for every birth. Lambing on a smallholding scale is different to lambing several hundred ewes.
I hope you get some lovely lambs :sheep: :sheep:
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Colliewoman - when do you use twin lamb drench?
I dont have any of this.
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So far..... Never! but was always taught that the year you don't have any will be the year you need it ;D
I used honey with someone elses who was looking a bit doddery, as soon as the owner got the drench we used that as well.
It's on my list of must haves in my sheep book, so I always have some on hand ;)
I would use in whenever a ewe looks a bit off colour and in lamb, or post lambing. It isn't a cure for everything, but harmless and a good energy boost if even it wasn't needed.
One of my goats had suspect pregnancy toxaemia about 5 weeks ago, she got some and a pain killer because I thought she was in pain. One of them did the trick ;D
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But what is it? ??? ???
Is it for the ewe or the lambs? Is it for before or after lambing? I have heard of twin lamb disease but dont know much about it.
Ahhhh ..... another gap in my knowledge!!!!!
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We've all had to start at the beginning and no doubt will have felt like you! Also experienced breeders will come across situations they've never had before. If you've never experienced something you're not going to know what it's like, books are useful but there's nothing like first hand knowledge.
When my first lot of ewes lambed I didn't even know they were pregnant, we put raddle on the ram but the sheep weren't being marked. Changed the colour block several times but still no marks - we thought the ram might be gay! Then next spring found a dead lamb in the field and one live one ::). Dunno what happened with the colours!
I've been breeding lambs for five years now and this year I've had to do things I've never done before, including putting my hand right inside the ewe to try and pull the back legs out from a breech birth - it was sooo hard as the lambs were huge and she didn't have much space, and I was really worried I might damage the ewe.
ITH twin lamb drench is a high energy supplement in liquid form you give to ewes via a long nosed syringe if they have had a difficult time carrying twins or during labour - but I gave it to my little Gotland Tiny when she nearly died earlier this year. I am sure it helped pick her up. I also gave it to the ewe who had struggled with her dead twins (the one I had to assist with!). You can buy it in agricultural feed merchants.
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If it is any consolation one year I even had a friend threaten to take my ewes away and lamb them in his barn and then bring them back to me because I was fussing so much!
With any animals the important thing is to know when you are out of your depth and need to call on expert help. The depth will vary with experience and there is no shame in seeking help. But most of the time the sheep manage very well without us. And as you will see from my recent post all the text books in the world won't stop the odd one from catching us out.
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There are times when, even though I've been there done that, I forget everything and just PANIC. We all arse it up from time to time but I'm well experienced at kicking myself for it. When we were bringing our ewes in for lambing, one decided to give birth at the same time. Another was slow with Hypocalcaemia. Nothing was normal about it all and I should've just left them all for a few more hours or the next day but one had already lambed that morning and I was thinking 'Got to get them in QUICK'. We had ewes all over the field (which is fenced by the way). It wasn't going to plan and I got into such a state which meant the ewes got in a state too. Got them all back where they'd started waited a while for 'normality' to resume, and began again CALMLY. Made such a difference.
I've never had a cast sheep. Think I'd be a tad flustered on that one too.
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I'm sure all these tv programmes are to blame, showing shepherds diving into their ewes back ends for every lamb.
Why do they do that?!?! I think that on Countryfile this weekend was the first time I've seen the Shepherd just let his ewe get on with it. Adam Henson's face was a picture!
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Makes for better viewing, something has to be happening we can't just all be sitting about watching nature take its course ::) Action!! Sound bites!! ::)
The kids at my school (and some of the adults!) live life as though it were a soap opera, with that level of angst and drama. I'm sure they think, since every TV programme seems to show that and they watch lots of them, that it's normal. I suppose a sensible, calm life with people getting along and negotiating things rather than screaming and fighting, would seem too boring for words ::)
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The kids at my school (and some of the adults!) live life as though it were a soap opera, with that level of angst and drama. I'm sure they think, since every TV programme seems to show that and they watch lots of them, that it's normal. I suppose a sensible, calm life with people getting along and negotiating things rather than screaming and fighting, would seem too boring for words ::)
I SO agree with that - I used to work with folk who could make a huge drama out of the most trivial things and I think it was watching too much TV / having an otherwise unfulfilling life.
We're all learning - when we stop we'll be deid :)
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Makes for better viewing, something has to be happening
, we can't just all be sitting about watching nature take its course ::) Action!! Sound bites!! ::)
The kids at my school (and some of the adults!) live life as though it were a soap opera, with that level of angst and drama. I'm sure they think, since every TV programme seems to show that and they watch lots of them, that it's normal. I suppose a sensible, calm life with people getting along and negotiating things rather than screaming and fighting, would seem too boring for words ::)
Absolutely agree. I'm working with a girl now who wanted to be put in care cos she thought it would be like Tracy Beaker. Now she's with us she realises it's nothing like the telly and she'd rather be back with her mum.
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I never bother with my ewes. I lamb outside and only helped one this year. First lamb alive twins behind her dead.
Sheep have been having lambs for a number of years without all the rigmarole we think is the norm now.
Feed the ewe prior to lambing and feed her well after.
From18 Llyens I had 35 lambs and lost 2 more.
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One of my pregnant ewes got cast this spring for the first time, but she was w-i-i-i-d-e!! I knew about being cast because of horses but agree if you haven't had experience of it or know what it is, it could be quite alarming! She was like a turtle on its' back :D
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Lol, that happened to me once when I was walking with a big rucksack on :D
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Nettex Collate Multi lamb rapid we find is a very good product for twin lamb sickness.
But prevention is better than cure we think and so our twin ewes had hgh energy licks constantly with them, an were fed plenty of beet. x
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What are the signs of twin lamb disease? Causes?
I didnt think any of mine would have twins as I thought this was unusal for Soay lambing for the first time but we already have one set and another ewe is HUGE.
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It isn't automatic with twins. It is where the ewe can't keep up with the energy demands of the foetuses/lambs (can happen before or after birth) from her food, so she starts to use up her fat. Too much breaking down of fat causes ketosis, which reduces appetite, making her even less able to meet the demands.......
Feeding ewes with twins well during and after pregnancy helps avoid it. If it does happen, she needs lots of easily absorbed energy (hence the drenches) and tempting with anything she'll eat basically. I drenched a goat with very runny Readybrek and syrup once, seemed to work, the syrup is the quick fix and the oats gave the rumen something to work on.
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Lol, that happened to me once when I was walking with a big rucksack on :D
I wondered when/where I'd seen my ram stuck on his back before, then realised it was me, circa 2007 stuck in a bog on Dartmoor (racing) with 55lbs on my back; cold, wet, tired and thoroughly miserable.
Good times.
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Well Dors lambed this afternoon - bitterly cold day typically! Last checked on her lunchtime, 2 hours later drive past and see a lamb under her! Sadly she'd had 2 and one was clearly dead - not sure which she'd had first? Dead lamb looked ok but kidneys and most innards were out - there weren't any crows around when I got to the field but assume (???) this was damage from them. The dead lambs head and front legs were still covered in mucus/sac. I'm way too inexperienced to hazard a guess as to what went wrong.
But her live lamb seems ok - been feeding, mum v protective, plenty of baaing at each other, the lambs even been trying to bound around! Fingers crossed it thrives. Think it's a girl? Is this as straightforward as it seems?! Lol
My other not-pregnant/pregnant ewe is going crazy at the new lamb but keeps going over to where we found the dead lamb and pawing the ground, lying on the spot and bleating like crazy. Odd hormonal behaviour! Mx
Mx
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Good news one survived. It's pretty obvious if it's a boy, their balls are quite big - nothing dangling, it's a girl :)
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Lol - I thought as much but as nothing else as been the bleeding obvious so far I thought i'd ask!!
Mx
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I hope not but could the dead lamb have belonged to the other ewe? It might explain her behaviour. I hope not and that she goes on to have her own. So glad you have a happy bouncy lamb?
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Do u know, I thought that. She's pretty approachable and had a good (novicey) look at her but there's absolutely no evidence she'd given birth. But she remains pretty 'loud' and obsessed with her mates new lamb!
Mx
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Read that if they are close to giving birth they can be obsessed by newborn lambs.
My last ewe was desperate to get into the other paddock where the lambs are and was calling to them in a loud and distressed fashion - just before giving birth herself.
Look at the thread I started about lambs being born in their bags-the reply from VSS maybe the answer (regarding multiple births).
Glad you have one healthy lamb :thumbsup: