The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Happyhens on January 27, 2008, 08:59:38 pm
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Hi to everyone
We have started to Lamb our Miniature Quessant, they should be ready to leave (weaned) in around 5-6 weeks time, we also have three very nice Black Rams for sale and one Tup Lamb that is White (quite rare), they are not related. If you would like more details then please get in touch.
Regards
S.
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sorry but they will not be weaned in about five to siw weeks but four months :o :o
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::)
Hi Kanisha
The one's born ealier will be ready to leave in five to six weeks time, I think you miss read my posting?
S.
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Hi Happy hens
just for clarification, it will be four months old?
K
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We have a few of these characterful sheep and now have 2 young lambs with 3 more expected.
Does anyone dock the tails using the rubber rings and do you castrated the males using the same method.
:-\
Then I read the other postings which have given me the information I was looking for, still nice to make a first posting.
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Hi Jakers glad to here you have some ouessants they are a northern european short tailed breed do NOT dock their tails they are naturally short and don't need doing.
I do castrate my boys by banding them but you will find if you try to do them at less than a week old you are going to have real fun!!! I'm not sure where you are but i understand this is a legal requirement to do it in the UK before a week old I have not yet managed it at less than ten days even then its fiddly til you get the hang of it but do able; If you are still not sure or need any advice please feel free to ask. I have one lamb from this year with another ten expected all ouessants Love to hear more about your what colour? origin etc?
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Kanisha
Thanks for the reply and the advice, I did look at castrating our first ram lamb but could not find anything to put the ring around :)
Since then we have formed a very loose partnership with two other breeders and have arraged our grazzing to seperate out the boys in a few months time from the girls.
That way the boys get to stay complete and gain weight quicker and keep our resident ram company for a few months.
We are on the third day of antibiotics on one of our expectant ewes, she picked up a foot infection, despite regular foot cleaning and the odd trim, she is moving around much better now so it looks as if the antibiotics have done their thing.
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Hu jakers, I am surprised at the weight gain being more for rams , I have kept two of last years wethers as an experiment to kill out at 18 months as hoggetts. I saw an article somewhere ( can't remember now where) stating that wethers grew larger and this to be honest I have found to be the case. I expect his finished weight and size to be bigger than the average i have here and considering he is one of a twin that is pretty good going. He was done at ten days. I wanted to explore the advantages of wethers in terms of fleece, saleability ( for pets) and meat; do i take i you will be doing them at a later stage or selling them on entire? I am keeping at the moment two groups of entire breeding rams which is working out quite well time will tell if this continues plus currently two wethers one who will be a permanent fixture and I run him with the girls as he was done later and has horns and a good protective instinct and is nice with the ladies and the lambs. Mine live out all year round so the added prescence of a wether makes me feel more comfortable not sure how much protection they actully need but he does a good job; :)
good news about the ewe. :) :)
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I am not sure if this is the forum to ask this question but reading about castration puts me mind of something the vet said to us recently.
We had twin goats born 1 boy 1 girl. Incidentally I use the rubber bands to castrate ours males and like Kanisha find it impossible to do it before 10 days old.
Anyway the vet said that a twin of both sexes would give a barron female who would never get pregnant because it will have gained too much testosterone from her brother or because of her brother. Can't remember the exact wording now.
Is this the case with sheep?
Kate
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This only applies to cattle and never to goats and sheep!!
Twins in cattle are not common but are normal in sheep and goats. In cattle twin heifer calves are normal and so are twin bulls however in a mixed sex twin in cattle about 60% of heifer calves are 'freemartins' looking and growing like heifers but never coming bulling as they often don't have overies. Most farmers will not keep a heifer who had a bull twin 'just in case'!
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Thank you for that response. When I rehome this years young which at the moment does include a female of this type, it was a little worrying to me baring in mind that others might like to breed her.
Kate
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It is very unusual for ouessants to have twin lambs. there are some who say if they have twins they they can't be ouessants. this is because, of the three breeds of sheep common to the area ouessants were known for single births the race a deux or mouton de belle isle was know for its prolificacy having twins or multiple births;
Interestingly there is some work done in dogs to suggest that those bitches sided by a male pup are likely to be more dominant as a result of the washed testosterone. and that you should note birth order of puppies to get an idea of early dominance traits. having had two pairs of ouessant twins last year both male + female sets I can honestly say I have noticed no difference. the one ewe lamb I have not put in lamb this year as ideally the first year is too soon for such tiny sheep the second i have she is as well grown as a single lamb the particular ewe always does her lambs really well. I'm not sure if she is in lamb as if she is it will be later time will tell.
Twins Bella and Beau
(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n218/kanisha001/Photo641.jpg)
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Twins fantastic, I'm just realy pleased my girls are producing one healthy lamb each!!!!
Great photo.
What age would you consider worming the lambs ??
We use Synanthic at aprox 10ml per adult sheep at intervals of 13 weeks unless the girls are in lamb.
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Believe me when the first ewe had twins I was like a headless chicken when the second ewe ( mum to the first) then produced a nice sized ram lamb I thought that was it until she heaved and out popped a twin!!!! The ewe in the pic is huge again whether its twins or not I have no idea shes always huge. as for worming.
I wormed all mine about four weeks ago. using Immena ( which covers for liver fluke ) I will worm again with Ivomec because I have had a problem with Nose bot. only my cotentin ewe seems to have a problem but I avoided treating everyone last year with ivomec and because of that I needed to give my contentin a second treatment. lambs get wormed at about four to six weeks;as lambing is likely to be spread out it varies a little I tend to rotate my wormers.
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Oh Kanisha, dont I wish mine would have twins. The first lamb was born last week, a black male and is so cute and healthy albeit a pain when trying to feed pigs in particular, he has begun to come straight over to me, do a crawl on all fours and go under electric fence to see if their offerings are better than the rest of the flock of sheep. Anyway 5 more to go, looking forward to Blossom my white ouessant giving birth. All the others are black but the ram is white too. First year with this ram, so we will see what colours we end up with.
Carole
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Hi Carole right now I just feeling the waiting is endless! Oanez has been threatening to give birth for what seems like days you know what they say about a watched kettle! colours are fun I would be very interested to know what ratio of blacks to whites you have. I hav e one brown ewe put to a brown ram but she isn't due until later. fingers crossed lambing goes well for everyone.
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Just so happy !!!!! this morning 2 more lambs born, both black, both mothers are black and dad is white, 3 more to go.
All happy and healthy which is to me more important than anything.
Good luck everyone waiting, as they say it all comes to those who wait- and yes we have been waiting
Carole
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great news!!!! so pleased for you Oanez is still looking hugely fat and pregnant and showing no signs that she will ever give birth ::)
re your black lambs. you can start to work out colours and who carries what useful if you want to breed for colours. white is dominant. to black so in theory if your male ram was white on both sides ie he inherited a white gene from his mum and one from his dad the lambs should have been born white no matter the colour of their mums. if he was white but carrying black there is a fifty percent chance with black mums of having black lambs. so it will be interesting to see what colours your other lambs are. it is possible also to have a colour gene called dominant black inwhich case the dominance of white is reversed it takes a while to work out but if your ewes are dominant black no matter what the male is they will always throw black lambs but the the lambs may themselves then carry white..................hmm maybe you don't want to know :D as you say healthy lambs is the most important thing congratulations I am not in the least jealous .......no really ............. :-\
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That is really interesting about the colours. We are still trying to work out Cyclic breeding in GOS pigs so another one to challenge the mind is all for the good - yeh!
Congrats Carole - pics please?
Kate
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Oh now youve got me started looking at sheep family trees!!!!! I am bad enough with pigs but this is even more daunting.
Brambles- the white ram is 2 years old and his mother was white, his father was black. Grandfather on dads side was also black. Thats as far as I have got at the moment. The person we bought Brambles from is also investigating further for us, as this is so interesting.
My black females are more complicated as the previous owners seem now not to know anything about them!!!!!
My white ewe was a rescue and that is my challenge of the day to find out more about her history.
Luckily it is pouring with rain so I can spend as much time here as I want without feeling guilty!!!!!
Will post pics when the weather better.
Thanks Kanisha you have been very helpful.
Also Kate, any news on your little ones?
Carole
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I can bore people to death with sheep genetics :-X but in ouessants the important things to look for are two white parents producing a black offspring this means that the black lamb is a true recessive back and cannot carry dominant black.( this canb e useful for breeding programmes)
A white lamb born to two black parents this is very significant because for the lamb to have been born white one of the parents must have been carrying dominant black and hiding the fact they are in reality a white sheep.
why is dominant black so important; well it is and it isn't; many breeds of sheep are thought to have dominant black black welsh mountain and jacobs even though they are white ( long story) the important thing with dominant black is it hides other colours ( but not brown) so if there are other patterns of sheep out there that may be in ouessants you may have them but not know because your sheep are dominant black its a moot point if it is in ouessants at all but the more recording of colours and breeding the more likely people are to find the answers; :sheep: ( sorry just wante d to use the emoticon coz its cute! :sheep: :sheep: :sheep:
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Hi KANISHA
Are ouessants hardy sheep, are they more manageable than others I have read about?
We are looking for something to look at, keep grass down, be ok with horses and taste good
Asking as you are very knowledgeable of this breed
Ben
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Hi Ben ouessants are hardy sheep as to being more mangeable not sure what you mean you still need to worry about shearing feet worming at the moment fly preventative etc is important so they can be as much "work" as any other sheep i have found if you take care of your sheep they stay healthy in general but all to often people think they are OK and just leave them in the field they do require some attention. mine are perfect lawnmowers i don't have a huge amount of experience with horses but I understand they can compete for the same grazing so you may want to consider if you want to do this although I understand they also tidy up quite nicely. I know people who leave a section of field fenced off with electric fencing to allow the sheep to pass under but keep the horses on one side if they start to kick up and annoy the sheep; as for eating ask me a little later in the year ;D they are very small an adult ram will weigh 18 kgs live weight so any meat is going to be not a lot but i am told the eating is good. i will have one or two hoggetts going for meat at the end of the summer so can tell more then;
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Hi
After searching for more info on these sheep, I have had a lovely e-mail from a chap in UK who has inherited some ouessants and for those in the UK wanting a taste of french breeds he is the man to contact
www.Baylham-House-farm.co.uk he has possibly some stock for sale, if not now, later.
Go on give this breed a chance, oh and for ben 10, yes I have tasted the meat and it is superb, sweeter than most and not as small as you would think.
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there is quite a network of breeders of ouessants now http://ouessants.ning.com/ (http://ouessants.ning.com/) several from the UK are listed not to mention a few of those in france and other countries. ( I admit having a hand in the site ::)
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Hi anyone who wants to buy Ouessants in the UK :sheep: :sheep: (waving sheepies)
Hope you are sitting down whilst reading this but they sell for .........£300 plus for ewes and £450 plus for rams at the latest time!!! :o :o :o :o
Do make sure if you buy some that they are correct....ie rms have horns and they are not too close to the head etc, ewes do not have horns and that if you buy breeding stock they are unrelated!!
There are quite a lot of us around and we hope to arrange another import from France on 09 BTV permitting and that is a possible cheaper option for aquiring animals. In th meantime join the fantastic site set up by Kanisha :sheep: :sheep:
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when you consider the official GEMO ( breed society) price for a to size standard breed ouessant is 130 euros in france you begin to wonder what you are paying for :-\ it is certainly possible to buy cheaper and if you are buying quality stock from a reputable breeder then I see no reason why their input can't be recognised and a fair asking price be demanded but those sums are a joke! ???
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How much!!!! wow.
Anyway luckily not needing to source out of France-- Yes another born this morning!!!!!
2 more to come now and then the waiting all over
Carole
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I am still waiting!!! arrrggh! congrats on yet another lamb ;D ;D :sheep: :sheep:
I am hopeful we are talking hours for the next lamb but..............
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Guess what !!!!!! YES ANOTHER BORN THIS MORNING
Sorry Kanisha, only 1 to go .
Any news from your side of Brittany.
Carole
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nnnnnrgrrrrgggg I am happy for you ;D ;D ;D still nothing!! shes oozing mucous has a vulva as large as ( something large!) and still sits there inscrutably studying me refusing to give birth I keep saying today but so far still nothing!! ::) ::)
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Shes waiting for you to go away or go shopping etc ;D ;D I used to have a ewe that would stand on her head rather than be watched!!! ::)
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I try to only look in on five hourly intervals there have been times when I'm sure shes about to start and have checked more to be honest I would happily put her back up in the field and let her get on with it if the weather wasn't so foul and i don't have a nagging doubt re oversized lamb at this rate shell be giving birth to a hoggett!
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Relax....lamb will arrive when cooked!!!....they tend to be smaller for some odd reason if a bit late not bigger ???
She will surprise you and pop it out when you are having a cuppa!!
I'm packing sheepskin rugs from last years lambs for an order......fighting with 15 skins to get them packed is worse than wrestling with a live one ;D ;D
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deep breathing exercises, whale music, mood lights for me not the ewe! :D I was going to ask re skins I was going to use organissheepskins but their website is down? anyone know whats heppened to them? hope you get those skins packed! I'll settle for just one :)
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If anyone is looking for ouessants, have just noticed an ad on anglo brittany they are selling a flock of them.
Any news yet Kanisha?
Carole
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Not at all sure about organic sheepskin people!! Cannot get their site either!! I use Fenland at Bridgwater.....June and Andrew Tinnion are fantastic! Their tanning is non chrome and very good, they are fairly if not very environmentally friendly in their tanning as I know the bloke who works for the EA for their area and he confirms their water discharges are very very good!..........tanning seems to use one heck of a lot of water :o..........any news on them lambs yet?
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No news and to me shes gone off the boil do they have false alarms shes been oozing mucous since last friday now stopped; still ever hopeful! :-\
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Number three Ouessant has arrived just before l left for UK yesterday! Two boy and a girls now and finished thank goodness - my nerves couldn't take any more!
I am sat in the bedroom of my daughters in Fareham Hampshire enjoying the cenral heating and my little grandson Charlie sat on my bed - it is lovely!
Have a good one all of you!
Kate :bfly: :bee: :) :pig: :pig:
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;D ;D ;D
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Great news Kate, what colours are they?
Ohhh for central heating its freezing tonight in Brittany
Carole
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Hi Carole have you finished lambing yet? I would love to know the final outcome of your lambs colours etc.
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Hi Kanisha
Still waiting for 1 more. She was the last to lamb last year as well. So far have 5 little black ones. Now waiting for white ewe.interesting that 4 of the lambs share the same father who is white and all mums are black.
Blossom ( my only white ewe) kept us waiting last year, had a beautiful white ram baby and the father that time was black.
Carole
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My three are all black as well, but will be swapping rams for next year and by coincedence, my new ram for the new season is the white ram that Carole bred last year. Baaaart is very handsome, so it will be interesting to see if we get any other colours. I had no idea that he was part of the small flock that I had recently bought, so a lovely surprise for Carole and of course I am well chuffed!
Kate :sheep:
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Hi Carole of the black ewes are they all related ie from the same flock? still waiting for all of mine ::) bar mmy little black ram :)
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Kanisha
They are not all related, came together but from seperate flocks initially.
I am so pleased that Bart my favourite ram lamb from last year has been re homed with Kate. He was a sweetie, its his mum I am still waiting for- but last year she delivered 18th May, looked like she was going to explode- nothing changed this year either!!!!!
Carole
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sheep! they do do quite what you expect I am celebrating a little brown ewe lamb born to Ciska last night celebrating because it was totally unexpected no one thought she was in lamb! little Melita is doing well after a shakey start and I still have Olivia the other brown ewe to lamb not to mention all of Ivos lambs and my dominant black experiment ( fingers crossed for a nice surprise there) . I am on cloud nine ;D ;D ;D ;D :sheep: :sheep:
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Congratulations - it's always nice to get a nice surprise!
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Hurray!!
At last Kanisha, well done!
Kate :sheep:
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Kanisha, well done great news.
Yesterday afternon, Blossom finally lambed. Thats us finished here now, thank goodness, however the lamb is black. Mum and Dad both white!!! odd as last year the ram was black and she had a white babe- all so confusing. Will re read your previous postings re colours and genetics.
Carole
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Hi Carole this kind of recording of births and colours will tell you alot about the genotype of your adults. this way you are able to plan colour breeding a lot better. It is possible to carry a number of colours not just one with one hidden but in this case.
Blossom is Awt/Aa BB/B? E+E+
Dad is Awt/Aa BB/B? E+E+
and the black lamb born to two white parents must be Aa/Aa BB/B? E+/E+
By noting the full colour genotype where possible from each breeding you can hopefully eventually get a much better idea of prediciting matings and colour outcomes it can be very useful.
I have used Ivo who is the same genotype as your black lamb born to blossom as he is a known non dominant black ( true recessive black ) ram I have put him to all black ewes who are all from only black flocks if there are any white sheep who are dominant black I may if I get lucky produce a white lamb from a black to black mating that would be very interesting! we will see.
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Ive finished lambing!! ..................almost probably!!!
http://ouessants.blogspot.com/2008/05/end-is-in-sight.html
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Worries over with for this year then Kanisha!
I still have one that I am not sure about. She is a Ouessant cross and has been living with Norman since January. She looks a big girl, but since she hasn't been sheared yet because it was cancelled last week due to the weather, I cannot be sure. Stressing about it really, because I don't want here interferred with if she is due, but she does need shearing because her wool is really thick. If she is with lamb then I hope she hurries up!
Kate :sheep:
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Hi Kate yes I know what you mean i still don't know about squeak and like yours she hasn't been shorn I am going to shear her tomorrow fingers crossed all goes well. A couple of years ago my ram didn't arrive until 7th of Jan all the girls were pregnant ;D so I'm sure your girl probably is too.
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Hi im a newbie on here and im doing some research into owning a quessant/breton sheep/lamb as a pet/s. I dont know much about livestock only the basics. Thats why im doing my research, if any one could be so kind as to help?
Well i fell in love instantly with this mini sheep at plymouth zoo, im not actually sure if the sheep i saw were lambs or adults - they were very small and cute. I was thinking about having chickens and it just crossed my mind (what with all the grass mowing), would it be possible to keep a sheep or two in my back garden as pets? I have never owned livestock before, only my dog, i am a very responsible pet owner and do not go into situations lightly. I have lived next door to livestock; mini horses, goats, hens, horses, pigs so i know it is possible, what i dont know is how much grazing would a sheep or two need to sustain there diet? What supplements (hay/straw/oats?) would be needed ect..?
I was thinking if i could i would like to keep one or two in my back garden in a shed- especuially kitted out for them, also what do you have to do to there feet, how often and where do you get this done, would i t be a local vet or farier?
Well any help and guidence to a wanna be newbie would be greatly appriciated - we all have to start somewhere, i might go and look on ebay now for books lol
bye for now newbie :) melleyb
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Mellybe, think your best bet is to log onto Kanishas web site, its full of knowledgeable people who breed ouessants and I think other breeds too.
Keep us posted as to what you decide, good luck, ouessants are fantastic sheep, full of energy and do sometimes the funniest things.They can too get you into trouble, the times when they think the grass is greener on the other side- only its not grass but a field of newly planted maize!!!!!!!! yes happened yesterday, farmer not amused ,but after he had drunk all my beer he seemed happy enough.
Carole
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Hi MellyB
I am on the Somerset/Devon Border and have, among other sheep, a flock of 13 Ouessants with 2 more arriving soon! If you want to come down for the day please feel free to get in touch! We also have a course here on the 28th June called 'Starting with sheep' a day for those thinking about keeping sheep that will cover everything you ever wanted or needed to know!
My contact phone number is 07857 670092
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Hi thanks for the replies, im now thinking - due to knew job - that i may have to leave much wanted sheep until i have retired, now thinking about getting chickens - in fact definatly going to get chickend for now - will just have to dress the dog as a sheep lol
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Chickens are certainly a lot less hassle than sheep.
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sheep hassle??? I can spend hours just watching them, no hassle ;D
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At last able to report that my Ouessant cross - Chocolate - has had a lamb - a little black male with a white tuft on his head. Carole also has a lamb sired by Norman and hers also has a white tufty on his head. Norman is black and has white shoulders so I guess that it where it comes from on his boys.
The lamb - Little Norm - looks exactly like a Ouessant, so it will be interesting to see just how big he actually grows in comparison to the others.
I am so pleased Chocolate has lambed. Her history tells that she had a still born and was very ill, so I have been worried, but she is fine and is a superb mother.
I have had conversations with Carole about Chocolate's behaviour because she has kept herself and her lamb away from the rest of the flock. The lamb is just two weeks old now (have I really been offline that long!), and she has only just rejoined her friends. Carole suggested that this was her way of protecting him from the other larger lambs who could possibly hurt him playing. She continually bleated and again Caroles advice that she is keeping in contact with the flock to remind them that she was still around made sense again.
What a clever Carole!! Thank you, you gave me peace of mind at a worrying time, this being my first time.
Anyway, all is well, the lambs are all growing well and thriving and the mums are doing a wonderful job with their families.
Interestingly, reading about colours etc, one of my boys has developed a large brown tuft on his head, the others have retained their black colour. I must have a right mix and match in my flock!! Never mind, I am happy with them.
So, is everyone now done and dusted for this season?
Kate ;D :sheep:
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all done and dusted phew got to start thinking about matings for this year now. the white tuft on top of the head is quite normal for ouessants and is part of the recessive spotting gene I quite like them they should fade to a barely perceptible few white hairs as they grow I'm interested in Norms whte shoulders do you have a pic?
re mums keeping their distance there are good mums and anxious mums and everything in between. most of mine keep their little one apart from the flock for a while how protecive they are depends on their style of mothering all are different.
any pic of the brown tuft? sounds intriging
if you think colour is ouessants is dull try this fella genuine ouessant ( long bloodline) genuine colour no photo shop honest! http://ouessants.blogspot.com/2008/06/hot-ouessant.html and hes not a one off!
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He is fab - what a lovely lad!
Will get some pics of Norman - still trying to get the shearer in - so difficult to pin him down. Will post as soon as he is done.
Kate :sheep:
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Glad all is well with Chocolate, I am so looking forward to the pictures or to coming up and seeing them all
Carole