The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: chickenfeed on February 15, 2012, 12:16:12 pm
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the norfolk pig farmer has been found dead
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17038524 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17038524)
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another confirmation here from farmers guardian
http://www.farmersguardian.com/man-found-dead-at-norfolk-pig-farm-accused-of-cruelty/44891.article#.Tzucriba4Rw.facebook (http://www.farmersguardian.com/man-found-dead-at-norfolk-pig-farm-accused-of-cruelty/44891.article#.Tzucriba4Rw.facebook)
I do think this may illustrate that trial by media is not a fair or good thing and we should really resist joining in with it. The place for trials is in a court of law, where the all the facts can be calmly assessed and people judged and cleared or punished according to their degree of culpability.
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Not much to say as we do not know why he is dead.
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I do think this may illustrate that trial by media is not a fair or good thing and we should really resist joining in with it. The place for trials is in a court of law, where the all the facts can be calmly assessed and people judged and cleared or punished according to their degree of culpability.
I agree the media coverage has not been a good thing but the animals now won't get their chance to be represented in court and he has taken that right away from them. He won't pay but no doubt his poor family left behind will. I'm truly sorry for them.
My nan always had a saying that God didn't have his debts paid to him in money. Looks like he took early payment on this one.
Mandy :pig:
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I echo Mandy's sentiments, and regardless of how & why he died, my thoughts go out to his family & those left behind. So sad, and needless :'(
Karen :pig:
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200 hrs of secrete footage that is 5 weeks of videoing without being suspicious
we all remember the landlord in bath that was rounded on because he did not fit the mould and got compensation for it
i am not sure the courts are the best place to bring out the truth or otherwise
i know of four cases of cruelty all treated differently the only common factor was somebody through circumstances put on a pole for all to jeer at :farmer:
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I do think this may illustrate that trial by media is not a fair or good thing and we should really resist joining in with it. The place for trials is in a court of law, where the all the facts can be calmly assessed and people judged and cleared or punished according to their degree of culpability.
I agree the media coverage has not been a good thing but the animals now won't get their chance to be represented in court and he has taken that right away from them. He won't pay but no doubt his poor family left behind will. I'm truly sorry for them.
My nan always had a saying that God didn't have his debts paid to him in money. Looks like he took early payment on this one.
Mandy :pig:
I guess I just dont feel able to be judge and jury. Sickening behaviour on the video, we all agree on that and it should and will be punished, we hope. There will certainly be days in court for these animals, no doubt on that score. And when that happens, I hope they throw the book at them.
But summary trial and condemnation by media within hours of video clips surfacing is not the behaviour of a healthy society, there is too much glee in witch hunts and demonisation IMO.
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its a shame it wasnt the bloke with the bar, he should do the same.
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What can we say....... sad really.
Sad that he had to permit this sort of animal treatment on his property, sad he ran his farm in such a fashion, sad that he wasn't man enough to stand trial.... and yes, its sad he had to bring a final solution to his temporary problem..... and sad that many (including me) wont shed a tear for his pitiful soul.You "put it round" it eventually "comes around" to bite your arse. Tonight he has no worries, he cowardly left his family to deal with that problem.
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I've no love for animal activist groups but there can be no denying the deliberate cruelty involved here. That farmer may have thought death was the best way out(if, indeed it was suicide) but he may well find that his crimes must still be paid for. I hope the workers involved will be brought to justice too.
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Sorry, I think it's wrong, of us to make judgements about this.
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As I understand it the farmer does not appear any of the cruelty film, so one has to at least allow the possibility that he may have been (very) negligently unaware as opposed to actively involved until a court case took place to determine exactly how much he was involved.
That doesnt absolve his ultimate responsibility for what went on nor his failure to do his job in ensuring things were done properly, but it would make it different in nature from those who actually decided to inflict violence and cruelty on dumb animals.
We just dont know. And the reason we dont is because he isnt here. And the reason he isnt here may be because he was wracked with guilt and shame but may also be just as much to do with the media witchhunt and instant judgements made on tens and hundreds of forums like this one.
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Sorry but that is modern life. You have had your fair share of things to say on the matter. If you permit/commit a crime and then feel victimised and don't want people talking on forums about it - tough, its out of your hands. That is the world we live in. You said its a witch hunt and so forth by the media - from what I have seen they have just reported the facts plain and simple and even put the video of the farmers interview on the BBC website with the article, that is not mis-representation or a media witch hunt in my eyes. Thats just the news.
I don't have any sympathy for him whatsoever, however there is a difference between that and clapping your hands with glee because he is now dead, which I am not pleased about it either.
Maybe the only people who should comment are those that have actually watched all the videos. If you run a 'farm' where that sort of thing is going on...well it is going to make people feel angry, lets put it that way. I think sympathy is going to be in short supply, other than for those left behind ofcourse.
The footage is horrific, for the RSPCA to say it is some of the most disturbing they have ever seen should paint a pretty vivid picture of pigs getting their brains smashed all over the courtyard by some chav with an iron bar. Not to mention the rest of it. As stated, not happy he is dead but hardly crying into my cornflakes about it.
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I have watched all the videos, to clarify, and am as disgusted as anyone else about the appalling cruelty depicted.
While anyone can write whatever they like on forums, that is their right, there is another side of it, they should remember that their comments are about real people; and may affect those people and also their families and friends, and they may not cope. I dont expect people to feel at all sorry for the farmer;
only to be fair.
Personally I hope the people responsible for the cruelty are jailed for life although I suspect that wont happen. The cruelty inflicted was terrible and I also think someone who could do that to dumb animals would also be at real risk of similar violence to people.
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Sorry but that is modern life.
In the old days people used to send poison pen letters, this type of judgement on people is in my opinion the 21st century equivalent of a poison pen letter, I would respectfully suggest that at this stage we all draw a line under the comments on this topic.
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What type of judgement?
To clarify, other people on other forums may have made judgements but I do not think people have on here. The videos are there for all to see, I do not think that is a bad thing. People should know what is going on. Having grown up in town I have shovelled bacon and eggs into my mouth for years without thinking twice - now I would be more inclined to question its source. I think that is a good thing and it is a direct result of people writing on forums. The more people that talk about it, the more likely it is things will change across the country. This was the first, random pig farm this group went and filmed in and this is what they found. Do you think it is a completely isolated incident? I do not think you should discourage discussion on the matter or paint pictures of people passing judgement in order to guilt-trip people into feeling they should maintain a state of silent reflection. These are issues that ought to be aired and if more people start questioning where there food comes from then it may well be the farmers in the UK who end up reaping the benefits.
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I have watched all the videos, to clarify, and am as disgusted as anyone else about the appalling cruelty depicted.
While anyone can write whatever they like on forums, that is their right, there is another side of it, they should remember that their comments are about real people; and may affect those people and also their families and friends, and they may not cope. I dont expect people to feel at all sorry for the farmer;
only to be fair.
Personally I hope the people responsible for the cruelty are jailed for life although I suspect that wont happen. The cruelty inflicted was terrible and I also think someone who could do that to dumb animals would also be at real risk of similar violence to people.
as a breeder / keeper of livestock i would never describe them as dumb imho they have more about them than a lot of humans.
in the case of the farmer in question its all turned out to be very sad both for the animals and the humans but he must have been aware of some practices on the farm a pit of dead pigs is not easy to hide !.
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this cruelty and neglect happened last year WHY WAS IT NOT REPORTED AT THE TIME
the guy inflicting the pain and suffering WOULD YOU WALK UP TO HIM AND TELL HIM HE WAS SACKEDyou would be lying there in trauma
as to the film being the first farm they went to i doubt that
and if as is said the one taking the video was in charge he is equally to blame as the owner and the workers under him :farmer:
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I have watched all the videos, to clarify, and am as disgusted as anyone else about the appalling cruelty depicted.
While anyone can write whatever they like on forums, that is their right, there is another side of it, they should remember that their comments are about real people; and may affect those people and also their families and friends, and they may not cope. I dont expect people to feel at all sorry for the farmer;
only to be fair.
Personally I hope the people responsible for the cruelty are jailed for life although I suspect that wont happen. The cruelty inflicted was terrible and I also think someone who could do that to dumb animals would also be at real risk of similar violence to people.
as a breeder / keeper of livestock i would never describe them as dumb imho they have more about them than a lot of humans.
in the case of the farmer in question its all turned out to be very sad both for the animals and the humans but he must have been aware of some practices on the farm a pit of dead pigs is not easy to hide !.
...By dumb I mean dumb: ie unable to speak and tell what is going on. Not dumb as in stupid.
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Sorry, I think it's wrong, of us to make judgements about this.
Why? I would have thought the video films speak for themselves and for the poor old pigs who can't. Did you make a judgement whilst the farmer was still alive? Or is it "not done" now that he's dead?
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I would respectfully suggest that at this stage we all draw a line under the comments on this topic.
I concur, and the thread is now locked.