The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Calvadnack on February 05, 2012, 02:51:08 pm
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Smudger has raised an interesting query about pain relief during docking/castrating. I never found docking caused much pain with my Wiltshires and now have Shetlands, so it isn't an issue. However, castrating the shetlands seemed very uncomfortable for the little boys for quite awhile!
I've fluctuated between no castration (and the issues of keeping them apart from the ewes) and ring-castrating upto the 7 day limit and worrying about the pain. Has anyone asked the vets what pain relief could possibly be given?
Also do you think that eventually castrating with rings will be banned ?
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Smudger has raised an interesting query about pain relief during docking/castrating. I never found docking caused much pain with my Wiltshires and now have Shetlands, so it isn't an issue. However, castrating the shetlands seemed very uncomfortable for the little boys for quite awhile!
I've fluctuated between no castration (and the issues of keeping them apart from the ewes) and ring-castrating upto the 7 day limit and worrying about the pain. Has anyone asked the vets what pain relief could possibly be given?
Also do you think that eventually castrating with rings will be banned ?
don't say that! some smart eu person might see it and think it's a good idea!
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Hi - I kept a small flock of BWM for 20 years or so. They didn't need docking, and I never castrated any of the males, and ran the whole flock together always.
Never had many problems that I can remember. The biggest ram kept everyone in order, and kept the younger boys away from the ewes during the season. Lambing generally was from early Jan and did linger on a bit some years, but as they were easy lambers it didn't bother me all that much.
The young ewe lambs always got in lamb without problems though I would watch them in case they had one big single, and the boys were fine to eat without any ram taint as long as they weren't slaughtered in the season.
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I castrate all my boys just cos they tend to trash the fences otherwise as I keep them until their second year. Have never had any issues of it seeming to cause them real pain/issues. I do them at 1 day old, (the ewes lamb outside and then are brought in for lambs to get dry and make sure they are mothered up and drinking, and then once castrated next day they go out again).
Only had one or two where I couldnt be happy that the balls were both present and correct and 'safely gathered in'; these were left uncastrated but have been sent off in the winter due to the fence trashing above.
I am very very pro animal welfare but dont have any problems with the ringing, just cos I can see it isnt causing them a problem, I do it and then they are off investigating pen/straw/mum's sheep cob bucket straight away.
However I did go on a course to do lambing and learn how to ring properly AND I did do it under vet supervision the first few times. Maybe that should be compulsory. But I think the ringing should remain a matter of choice.
Tail ringing I think is less clear cut, since it would be possible to breed out long daggy tails, if that were prioritised. But while the tails are long, in certain areas of the country the right answer is to ring, but the real answer is to breed out long tails over time. I dont face this issue since Shetlands have naturally shorter tails and dont need to be docked.
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If you want to read more on this subject see here
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/s/00man/PainRumOverviews/PainProc/P06PainPrev_Lamb_Castrate_Dock.htm (http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/s/00man/PainRumOverviews/PainProc/P06PainPrev_Lamb_Castrate_Dock.htm)
Personally when I did have sheep I tended to find the younger the lamb when this was done the less they seemed to suffer.
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I've always found that lambs tend to lie down and thrash around for a few minutes after ringing but are soon up and feeding. I do cringe when doing them and suffer for them for a day or two :(
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I
However I did go on a course to do lambing and learn how to ring properly AND I did do it under vet supervision the first few times. Maybe that should be compulsory. But I think the ringing should remain a matter of choice.
I think this point is soooooo important
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We always inject with Adrenocane before castrating or docking. Our vet suggested we did after loosing a couple of lambs after docking then it turned very cold that day and they became very cold after mum wandered off and they couldn't find her this was because they were still in pain from the ring and reluctant to move.
It's a personal thing, i also just hate to see them kicking and in pain, for a few pence and a jab of the magic stuff subcut into their tail and they do none of that. The bottle comes from the Agi-store and does loads of lambs and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
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How would you use it in the case of ringing lambs for castration?
thank you
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Feldar, could you check the name of the pain relief you use as I couldn't find it on the internet. thx
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Neither could I, but if it works it sounds bril!
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I got a pain-killing jag for the male goat kids when I had to re-do the burdizzo after it was botched the first time.
I think that ringing does hurt young lambs, but they seem to get over it quite quickly. I only ever do it (and tails) while they're still in a mothering-up pen so they can't curl up and get left behind.
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We only kill lambs and dont keep any ram lambs on so we dont castrate at all. We just have to make sure that we kill before the end of September when they 'mature'. We have Shetlands as well so no need for docking either.
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I was going to ask about this as I have switched to Shetlands. I used to send my Rough Fell boys off at 6 months and 40-50 kg, so no need to ring, but I thought I might need to keep the Shetland males til hoggs. You're saying you can still send them at 6 months? What sort of weights do they make by then?
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I looked it up as adrenocaine seems it is a useful drug but Id be interested to know its used
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our Shetlands wouldnt be worth sending at 6 months so would be interested in how that's done too! Have sent one off at 7-8 months, very tender but not a lot there! (and that was an entire)
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Never weighed one! We have always had good lambs to kill and they have plenty on them,( they are as big as the ewes when they are slaughtered.) dont know what we do different to others ??? they say it is because they are left entire they grow better and we do grow a 'lamb' field full of good grass for them but cannot say we have noticed a difference since we started not castrating.
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Adrenocaine sorry i got the spelling wrong it is used for dehorning cattle, but can be bought over the counter.
Inject sub/cut into the tail around where you are going to put the ring on we inject about 2ml in small doses, so we flood the tissues that will be squeezed by the ring ( this applies to the scrotum as well ).
Leave for 10 mins like at the dentist, so the tail goes numb then apply the ring.
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This might sound daft but I am not sure that it wouldnt be more uncomfy having the injection in the lambies balls than the ringing causes? I have only ever seen one look uncomfy with the ringing and that was for about 10 seconds and then he skipped away again.
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hmm that was my thought for the scrotum, local aneasthetic is/ canbe painful to inject
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Adrenocaine sorry i got the spelling wrong it is used for dehorning cattle, but can be bought over the counter.
Inject sub/cut into the tail around where you are going to put the ring on we inject about 2ml in small doses, so we flood the tissues that will be squeezed by the ring ( this applies to the scrotum as well ).
Leave for 10 mins like at the dentist, so the tail goes numb then apply the ring.
Lignocaine is what is used for dehorning calves.
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looks to be similar in action and yes is also listed for dehorning in cattle ( seems to have better properties for reducing bleeding than lignocaine)
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you're probably right since we don't castrate our males because they are not around that long. we have only ever done two boys who had to stay on farm to go as wethers because we sold them to a friend. so i can't really say i'm an expert in the castrating department, but we did inject them and they seemed ok even when we were putting the needle in.
We always do the tails and like i said, it is just our personal preference to inject, i do hate to see them lie down and kick. I think maybe we are just big softies!!
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Adrenocaine sorry i got the spelling wrong it is used for dehorning cattle, but can be bought over the counter.
Inject sub/cut into the tail around where you are going to put the ring on we inject about 2ml in small doses, so we flood the tissues that will be squeezed by the ring ( this applies to the scrotum as well ).
Leave for 10 mins like at the dentist, so the tail goes numb then apply the ring.
Lignocaine is what is used for dehorning calves.
Yes i think they are the same just marketed under different names