The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: Remy on February 02, 2012, 08:37:33 pm
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My little Gotland ewe lamb ( born last year) got ill with worms at the beginning of January so I brought her in and gave her loads of TLC. She seemed to recover 100%, put on loads of condition and went out with the flock again. She was fine for a couple of weeks then went downhill again, this time was much worse than before and I feared I would lose her. She got every kind of treatment I could give her (worming, flukicide, drench for coccidiosis, mineral drench and AB jab). I was a bit worried giving her all this stuff as she is such a tiny thing but the next day she seemed to rally and was out grazing and eating feed.
The day after she took a downward turn and looked really poor, wasn't eating and just lying down. But the day after that picked up again and was walking around and eating.
However today she looks weak once more, has been lying down and struggling to get up. At one time when I put hard feed into the trough she tried to walk over to it then collapsed and couldn't stand up without my help.
I am thinking that she must have extensive damage to her gut from the worms, and maybe the nutrients from what she is eating aren't getting through to her. Is there anything you can advise I give her that might help, such as glucose in warm water? Her droppings have firmed up so I guess she must be eating something, but is so very weak.
If her gut has been substantially damaged by worms, is it possible that she can recover?
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I don't know long term.
For now, get some of the twin lamb drench for her. Tonight, try her with something like sloppy Readybrek with syrup/glucose/molasses. Basically get some sugar into her and some extra for her rumen to work on if you can, hence the oats.
I put the sloppy Readybrek mixture in a sports top bottle and squirted it into my sick goat's mouth once. Make sure you go slowly and she can swallow though or it'll go into her lungs and that will kill her.
Poor love :-*
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Tonight, try her with something like sloppy Readybrek with syrup/glucose/molasses. Basically get some sugar into her and some extra for her rumen to work on if you can, hence the oats.
I put the sloppy Readybrek mixture in a sports top bottle and squirted it into my sick goat's mouth once. Make sure you go slowly and she can swallow though or it'll go into her lungs and that will kill her.
Poor love :-*
How much glucose do you use, say for 5ml syringe?
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Hi Remy.
There's no set recipe. I use a 50ml syringe with about a tablespoon of glucose and a tiny pinch of salt with the cereal component - I've not tried readybrek but it sounds ideal (warm) and will help the rumen to keep working.
If you have a catheter-tip syringe, such as those for using when tubing a lamb, that is ideal, rather than a tiny 5 ml syringe. The catheter tip is about 1 1/2 inches long so you can put it in from the side, between the front and back teeth, and get the food nicely back on the tongue. Aim to get at least 50mls down at each feed, very slowly, checking she swallows between each few mls.
Something worth trying when she shows an interest is digestive biscuits - they have sugar, salt and cereal, plus a good crunch which sheep love. You may have to push tiny pieces into the side of the mouth on top of the tongue at first, but not until she is swallowing the readybrek happily. Once she gets used to the biscuits she will be addicted for life.
Then when she is showing signs of perking up add in handfuls of grass, willow leaves and so on to get her back to eating properly.
Also make sure she has enough water - this can be given by syringe too if she doesn't drink from a bucket.
Keep her indoors for nursing until you are sure she can manage outside. If she is 'down' then stand her up at least every two hours. Hold her up while she passes urine and droppings, and try to get her to take her own weight. If she flops when you lay her down, prop her up with hay bales.
With good nursing a sheep can come back from a severe illness to full health.
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Oatcakes and ivy leaves are worth a try too - our sheep go mad for oatcakes. We had one had a dead lamb last year and was pretty poorly but she soon got the taste for oatcakes.
Funnily enough, she was a real stand-offish ewe until then too, but now she's first in the queue if she hears a packet rustle in my pocket ;D
Hope your wee ewe recovers
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Thanks for the advice. I went in this morning and thought she was dead, was lying on her side on the straw then I saw she was breathing, but was just too weak to get up and had obviously been trying a while as the straw was all pushed aside. I picked her and she couldn't take her weight so I propped her up under a heat lamp and gave her some sugared and salted warm water (didn't have anything else to hand). Then put some nice haylage in front of her which she immediately started tucking into, so that's one good thing :).
I know many sheep don't have much a fighting spirit but this little lass seems to be hanging on against all odds, my biggest concern is that she is so weak and I don't know how damaged inside, and typically it's the coldest its been all winter!
Here she is, I call her Tiny. Keep fingers crossed for her!
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/greydales/Sheep/Tiny2.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/greydales/Sheep/Tiny.jpg)
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Well done for putting heat lamp up, can you get a jumper or 2 on her as well? or a foal coat? I drench any poorly sheep with flat lucozade and water with a long necked bottle into side of mouth....she will need a lot of fluid as is probably dehydrated. Also some live youghurt or a rumen aid mix to keep rumen flora working will do no harm.
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Come on, Tiny. We're all rooting for you :wave:
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if the rumen stops working altogether (ie if she stops eating altogether), it's worth bearing in mind that my vet saved my ewe with twin lamb disease last year who ha stopped eating completely by extracting some rumen contents out of one of his own ewes and tubing it down into her. She picked up almost straight away, although she aborted the lambs.
He said his ewe was 'not enthusiastic but none the worse for the donation'
It is good news that yours is eating haylage tho, good sign :-))
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Thanks for the info landm :).
Well she stayed in the same place all day between wall and bale, but tucking into everything I put in front of her, she seemed to especially like Readi-grass! I've been syringing electrolytes and glucose down her, then thought I had better lift her up so she could move about a bit. I picked her up, held her so she could steady herself, then she tottered over to the feed trough and started eating the mix - then went out to graze where she's been eating frosty grass for the last couple of hours! Not sure how good that is for her but at least she has picked up a little.
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Excellent :thumbsup: the moving about is good for her even if nibbling frozen grass won't get her very far! Good that she's eating everything you're giving her.
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It's sounding hopeful isnt it? hurrah!! I dont spose there are any this time of year but if you can find any dock leaves they love those and also ivy if you have it.
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Keeping my fingers crossed - cute wee soul - xx
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Ivy is an appetite stimulant. Mine spend hours picking over the best bits - it is the sheep equivalent of a box of chocs. Good luck with your little Gotland, some animals have amazing powers of recovery.
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Interesting re. all the ivy tips, I had also been told not to give them ivy as it is poisonous ??? but anyway, it doesn't look as if she needs her appetite stimulating at the mo!
Well she is a funny little sheep. Last night she stayed outside till well after dark nibbling the frosty grass, and was still out there at about 8pm. I went to get some more water for her, then when I came back she had gone into the stable and collapsed on her side again! ??? I thought oh no, all that grazing and walking about has done her in - so I picked her up and propped her back in her bed and surrounded her with haylage.
It was sooo cold last night I really thought that was it for her, hubby went out to check first thing and I was expecting him to tell me she was gone, but he said she was in the same place chewing the cud! So I went and gave her some more water, lifted her up again and she staggered over to the feed trough to eat and has now gone outside to graze on frosty grass again!
I am now in the process of making her a jute rug with bubble wrap lining so she doesn't spend so much energy trying to keep warm - pics to follow ;D
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I am just wondering if she has some sort of metabolite imbalance it seems odd that she is so up and down. ( looking for scratching head emoticon)
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( looking for scratching head emoticon)
??? This do?
And yes, the up and down-ness is a puzzle. Sounds like you are doing all the right things, though, Remy - she's lucky to have you. We're all rooting for her.
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What's she had in the way of vitamins and minerals?
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What's she had in the way of vitamins and minerals?
She had a long lasting multivit jab when she came in, along with being wormed, and drenches for fluke/cocciodisis. She also had an AB jab and I thought if all that didn't kill her it would be a miracle!
She stayed out for a bit this morning, then brought herself back in and lay down in her bed - so glad she didn't collapse on the floor this time :P. I'm giving her warm water and glucose every so often and making sure she has access to haylage while she's lying down. I've seen her pass water and her droppings are firm, so I'm cautiously optimistic ..
Out first thing this morning
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/greydales/Sheep/Tiny3.jpg)
Her little rug made out of a peanut sack lol
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/greydales/Sheep/Tiny4.jpg)
Took herself off to bed :)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/greydales/Sheep/Tiny5.jpg)
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I can't believe this little ewe. She has got weaker and weaker to the point she can't stand, and yesterday after grazing in the morning keeled over again and couldn't get up. I put her under the lamp where she lay on her side and didn't move or eat for the rest of the day and looked exhausted. Apart from having water syringed down her she was looking very poor. Then the blasted bulb in the heatlamp blew and I had to ransack my barn to try and find another one, which luckily I had! I left her last night never expecting for a minute she would still be here this morning, and when I peeped over the door she hadn't moved, but was still breathing!
So picked her up, helped to find her legs and she then squatted for a wee, but collapsed again. I put her back in her bed with a load of haylage in front of her and she immediately grabbed huge mouthfuls of it!
She very much wants to live by the looks of it, but my worry is now whether she's been affected neuroogically and can't stand? I will just have to see how it goes over the next few days, she so deserves to live :-\
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Please consider getting a vets opinion I feel certain that there is something that isn't being covered here. it may be that there is nothing that you can do but she is so up and down who knows it may only take the right treatment to get her back on her feet.
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Hi Remy. From the photos she is, apart from being extremely cute :), very thin. She is clearly very hungry but frozen grass will give her almost no nutrition and she will need more than she gets from the haylage - in her weakened state that will be hard going. Being so weak would explain the falling, or being too exhausted to get up
Have you tried the ready-brek and digestive biscuits suggested, or some coarse sheep mix as she is able to eat? I feel she needs more food inside her.
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Ivy is great as an 'encouragement' to eat but in moderation only. Too much is not a good thing (like us and chocolate-good parallel!). Does sound to me like the rumen has suffered some from her ordeal. 'Pro-rumen' is a fantastic aid. Any vet should be able to supply you with some sachets or get a hold of some pretty quickly for you. Dreadful that your poor girl is suffering at such a chilly time of year... Is she suffering in any other way ie: runny nose? We had a ewe with pneumonia who was saved by a series of 3 steroid injections. It had looked sure that we were going to lose her. Sheep don't give up the ghost if you don't give up on them.
Good look with your little sweetie, she looks absolutely adorable and you sound like a wonderful mum.
Amanda
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Maybe try some nuts. Pelleted beet is quite good too, presumably because the sugar in it get the rumen going.
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I did ask a vet's opinion this morning, she said it sounded like the ewe had just about everything she could have in the way of medication - it would be just a case of nursing her. I asked if it was likely she wouldn't survive, but she said it can be 50/50 and the fact that she is interested in food is in her favour. I'm assuming then, her inability to stand is due to weakness, as she was certainly very anaemic (mucous membranes were white) although I did detect some pinkness in them today. She doesn't have a runny nose or anything else, is just very thin and weak. Her droppings are fine.
Fleecewife I'm sure you're right, but it's difficult to get her to eat enough! I did try digestive biscuits but she wasn't interested in them, although she is eating coarse mix, but probably not enough to make much difference. I will try crumbling them into some mix, and also get some readybrek. I've been adding sugar beet shreds but again she's not bothered about those. I'm also giving her readi-grass (pure dried grass for horses) which she is eating a bit of.
Is the rumen aid a prescription item, or could I get it from my local agricultural feed merchant?
It's so typical all this happens when it's freezing cold and no grazing! ::)
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Grazing is of very little value at the moment...about the same as feeding lettuce! Letting her go outside is anso pointless as she will be using all her energy to keep warm! She MUST be penned in a warm corner under a lamp ALL the time! She needs rumen stimulant...she should have had it several days ago! On a sunday the best you can get is live natural youghurt and that has lots of the gut bactria necessary. You need to get her to eat high energy food...soaked sugar beet with molasses, bran mashes, biscuits, chopped apples...anything! She is weak because she is expending too much energy to get better!
Please get the vet if need be....and I think need is now. She is worth a lot of money so it is not money wasted but well spent!
Please please don't let her out in the cold again!
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we're all rooting for this brave little ewe, i too have the sense she really does need more high quality nutrition inside her. i'm a great believer in gettin sickly animals out on grass, but not frosted, which could upset her digestion, and that's not what you want. i think keep her in, and just try to get as much energy down her as poss. very good luck. excuse lower case, only one hand working after tripping over on the way back from the lambing shed. ground was hard as iron ouch!
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But what exactly would a vet do now that hasn't already been done? I've had the vet out to her, he's given her what he believed she needed. I called a different vet again this morning and was told that everything had been done medically that could have been. I know she needs calories inside her, I can get the rumen stimulant yes - as for all the other types of food, fine if she will eat if but if not I can't exactly force feed her unless it's easily swallowable - yes I will try readibrek/live yoghurt. Believe me I am not being complacent, I am tending to her all day and have tried many things, sugar beet in molasses, biscuits, grain - she will eat a bit if hungry but not in huge quantities.
I am unsure if I agree to keep her constantly penned in a small space - I understand where you are coming from re. her needing energy to keep warm but she's been under the heatlamp for days now and I think she needs to move around. I helped her to stand up just now, she wanted to lie down again but I held her and 'walked' her around and took her over to a pile of hay, where she started to nibble. I went off to get a scoop of mix and when I got back she had gone out.
The sun is out here and the ice has melted, it is not cold like it has been. She is at present in my garden where there is loads of grass (not frosted otherwise I wouldn't have put her on it) - ok it doesn't have a lot of goodness but she is eating it like there is no tomorrow. I am of the opinion if she is that interested in the grass it's going to be more beneficial to allow her to graze for a bit than keep her cooped up and trying to get her to eat stuff she's not really interested in. She's the perkiest I've seen her for ages so that in itself is telling me something! If it fills her belly and gives it something to work on surely that's a good thing .. and no I won't be letting her stay on it for ages!
The reason her rug is off is that while she was lying down she got a bit tangled in it and she was very warm, and the temp has gone up here today. If it was freezing cold I wouldn't have let her out.
She'll go back under the lamp tonight with her rug back on :)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/greydales/Sheep/Tiny7.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/greydales/Sheep/Tiny6.jpg)
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she would be better with a rug on outside and off when under the lamp. I too have a ewe that is very thin you can actually see the points of her hips through her fleece! well you could she is doing a little better now. I have no explanation for why she was so thin the others under the same conditions are not The one food she eats with gusto (other than grass) is alfa A (luzerne plus molasses)
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she would be better with a rug on outside and off when under the lamp. I too have a ewe that is very thin you can actually see the points of her hips through her fleece! well you could she is doing a little better now. I have no explanation for why she was so thin the others under the same conditions are not The one food she eats with gusto (other than grass) is alfa A (luzerne plus molasses)
I agree her rug is better on during the day :). I was actually going to get some Alfa-A tomorrow, it's what I've fed to horses to get a bit of condition on them and if she doesn't eat it then the horses will :). The Readi-grass I got she is not very interested in. What I will do is shut her in at night and let her into the garden for a while during the day if the weather's ok. She seems so much better than she did yesterday, but has a long way to go.
I too have a ewe that has always shown her hip bones, she was like that when I got her (she's the brown Zwartbles with Tiny). She is another one who got sick but recovered - her hipbones still show though and I think they always will! When I brought her in to convalesce I carried her like a dog, but now I can't pick her up!
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Dear of her! She is fighting at least. I hope all goes well with her :)
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The trouble with having a sick sheep in winter is usually the lack of grass, but those pics of her in your garden are great. It reminds me of times we've had sick ewes and just let them wander about the back garden, nothing gets them going like fresh grass, and even if it is the winter, if that's new growth it should have some goodness in it. A lot better than nothing, and once an animal starts eating the whole thing seems to build up momentum. I think you're doing everything you can, and she's a very lucky sheep to belong to someone who cares. I just hope the weather holds for a few days so she can build up her strength. Please keep posting.
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Yes I think you are doing all you can - I would also let her out if she wants to. At least she can move aorund and get that gut of hers working. If she has a pal who could also be in the garden with her would be great. If she lets you put a coat on her I would outside, but off inside. My sheep (and goats!) would just say NO to a coat, and it would be off in minutes!
Time will tell, if she doesn't make it - you have done all you could! Sometimes animals do die despite our best efforts. But fingers crossed!
Maybe one thing you could try, is to drench her with the stuff for twin lamb disease. It is pure energy, and as far as I know doesn't do any harm.
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I second that, we use the sticky pink stuff, can't remember what it's called, but with B vits and TLC it brought one of our ewes back to life after a terrible lambing a couple of years ago.
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I've lost track a little bit but seeing all the comments about stimulating appetite and kick-starting the rumen - would twin lamb drench be useful? I don't think it would do her any harm at the recommended dose rate and it'll contain energy, vitamins and things to get the rumen going again.
And as to not force-feeding her... well, you can give her drenches. Twin lamb drench as above, PSF (contains energy, vits, electrolytes), etc, can be delivered as a drench.
The only problem with letting her graze to appetite is that she then says, oh, my rumen is nice and full, I don't want anything else... and won't eat the nice cake you've got for her, which she needs. ::)
Good luck with her, she looks a real sweetie, I hope she pulls through.
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So should I try twin lamb drench AND rumen aid, or just the drench? My local supplier has some and I will go there today.
She is still the same, stayed under the lamp all night, I lifted her up and she wobbled over to the feed trough then fell in it! So I had to hold her while she ate a bit. She then had a good drink which I was really pleased to see, and had a big wee ;D.
She ventured out to have a bit of grass but has gone inside again now.
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So should I try twin lamb drench AND rumen aid, or just the drench?
Remy, I've only just seen this. I am not familiar with 'rumen aid' so can't answer, I'm afraid. What does it say on the bottle?
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I'm just trying the Twin lamb drench at the moment, there is enough in the bottle to give it to her over four days as she's so tiny. This morning she has been a bit more interested in eating and standing up, she had been under her lamp all night but once I stood her up she has been on her feet ever since, and has been no-stop eating so far (mostly haylage). She had also finished off a few handfuls of Alfa-A I put in front of her while she was lying down.
So far she has been the exception to sheeps' ambition to die - she certainly wants to live so far!
Would it be overdosing her to get more Twin lamb drench for her, if it appears to help? Or would one bottle be enough?
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I also meant to ask re. the Readibrek, wouldn't milk upset her digestion?
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You could make it with water and add sugar and a pinch of salt.
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Remy, I don't know how much in is your bottle of Twin Lamb Drench! :D We get one with 8 to 10 doses, and it says on the pack how many you can give - what size is yours and what does it say on the pack?
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OK my bottle is 150ml and for a full size ewe, it says the dose should be 75ml a day (two doses). So as Tiny would be at most half the size of a fully grown ewe I'm giving her about 35ml a day, it should last her four days.
Anyway some good news is that this is the first time in ages she has been on her feet ALL day sine I got her up this morning about 8am, and hasn't come into the stable and collapsed! ;D She's just lay down on the concrete (normally) so I've put her back under the lamp with haylage and Alfa-A.
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I have had a vet give a steroid injection before to a sick, not wanting to move sheep. That certainly upped the appetite, and once up and kept warm, she never looked back. She wasn't thin though.
I had to have the vet out to Doris the goat last week as she suddenly dropped condition and stopped eating almost overnight. She was given a worming injection, a pain killer and a gut stimulant (metaclopromide? maybe, or that might have been for the rabbit ;D)
I also gave her twin lamb drench and SOMETHING has done the trick.
With so many ABX I would be asking for something to keep the rumen healthy, or a gut stimulant etc. My tummy gets awfully painful after abx soa painkiller may be an idea to.
I sometimes think painkillers are neglected for our large animals, but would be first port of call for our small furries :-\
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I think you're right about painkillers, we had a ewe that had a really terrible lambing last year. Eventually the lamb had to be cut out, and the poor ewe was tremling and gasping. The vet gave her a shot anti biotics and anti inflamatory but no painkiller. When I suggested it he looked mildly surprised, but concurred. I told him he obviously had never given birth, never mind been through what that poor sheep had had to endure! she didn't prolapse and has made a full recovery as far as I can tell, but I doubt I'll ever lamb her again.
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I think you're right about painkillers, we had a ewe that had a really terrible lambing last year. Eventually the lamb had to be cut out, and the poor ewe was tremling and gasping. The vet gave her a shot anti biotics and anti inflamatory but no painkiller. When I suggested it he looked mildly surprised, but concurred. I told him he obviously had never given birth, never mind been through what that poor sheep had had to endure!
Our vets don't ask, they just give painkillers if they think they are needed, for instance after a caesarian or difficult lambing. I'm pretty sure it must be practice practise as the same has happened with several different vets from the same practise and they don't all know us and know that we would always say yes to painkillers if indicated.
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Well I am wondering if the lamb drench is helping, although she's not keen on it! For the last two days she's been on her feet and walking around all day, tucking into haylage and wanting to graze. She still isn't interested in much hard feed but at least she is putting something in her belly, and drinking herself. It's sunny here this afternoon and it's good to see the sun on her back. I feel she has turned a small corner - but early days yet ..
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She mush be a real fighter - good to read all the info for future reference - Keep posting Remy.
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Even better news she has been on her feet most of the day and can now lie down and get up herself - which she couldn't before. Hasn't keeled over for two days now and didn't want to be put down under the lamp tonight - and most importantly BAA'd at me to get some coarse mix! ;D ;D I haven't heard her little baa for ages :love:
Last course of twin lamb drench tomorrow. I'm so pleased she has turned a little corner as my daughter has just gone into hospital for delivery of her twins, and I may have to absent for a while and leave hubby in charge!
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Hope all goes well with the human births and glad your wee lamby is getting better. :thumbsup:
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I'm so pleased that she seems to be turning the corner. You've worked so hard for her - she sounds like a real fighter. Please keep updating her progress. Very useful also to read all the tips and ideas from everyone.
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I'm still at my daughter's (all is well but babies are still in intensive care due to being premature). Good news about Tiny is that hubby said she has started bounding over to him and baaing for food, I am thrilled as that means she is getting way stronger. He said he hasn't seen her lying down once yet!
I'll be returning home this week and can't wait to see her :)
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:thumbsup:That's good to hear
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Good news on all fronts :thumbsup:
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So pleased to hear good news on all the recent events - babies and sheep! Keep up the good work Hubby!!