The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: plumseverywhere on December 30, 2011, 02:11:46 pm
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Before we had sheep here I remember so many people saying that sheep are born to die, they just drop dead etc etc but its got me to wondering, why? there must be reasons (apart from getting old) and I wondered what the most common reasons you have found for a sheep just dying.
we had one that looked and seemed well and happy 2 days ago, yesterday morning found her dead (well daughter noticed crows on a 'lying down sheep' which obviously triggered the alarm!) she did have bloody mucous around her vulva which looked more like products of conception than it did crow pecking.
another query - not sure of the correct terminology but when a sheep gets stuck on its back (is it 'cast'?) am assuming this is less of a problem for hill farmers? just wondering because ours graze on a hill and i've never seen them do the turtle on its back thing here (yet)
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no cast is when they are sold as old sheep recurrent bad feet broken mouth (teeth missing)mastitis of both teats etc etc on there back is coupit :farmer:
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Sheep are prey animals and if ill will not show that they are ill until they are VERY ill. So therefore once you notice a sheep looking a bit off it is usually going towards serious, and if you don't act quickly and sometimes if you do it is already too late!
This is why we are supposed to keep an eye on them and know what is normal.....because then if we see any odd behaviour such as hanging back or looking preoccupied we know something may be amis.....
On the topic of cast sheep, it is much more likely for a lowland breed in a flat field to get cast as they have dense fleeces, are very square and flat backed and tend towards fatness!
Sorry about your ewe.....
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no cast is when they are sold as old sheep recurrent bad feet broken mouth (teeth missing)mastitis of both teats etc etc on there back is coupit :farmer:
Well we call it cast on their backs, on their backs or just cast down here.....old ewes are drafts......
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I don't really have any experience regarding sheep dropping dead, so won't imput on that.
Regarding sheep stuck on their backs, it depends where you live!
I am in Somerset and a sheep on its back is 'cast', when a sheep is sold on for age/teeth/tits/toes reasons then she is a 'cull'.
Sorry you lost your ewe x
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Well we call it cast on their backs, on their backs or just cast down here.....old ewes are drafts......
There really should be a book! I'm not that far from you, and to me a draft ewe is one brought down from the hills for a few more years on easier grazing ;D
I'm sure it is a special secret language that changes with the weather ;)
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I think I'll just have to call it 'on their backs' until I find out the official Worcestershire/Cotswolds colloquiallism!!
thanks for the tips though. I have to say, I 've been out there with the sheep every day as I am with the goats and this really took me by surprise as all of them were so well the day before. because there are only a handful you tend to get to 'know' them I suppose whereas the larger flock keepers must find it much harder (unless they have more than one person?)
I think she aborted but there was more to it hence her dying too. Have been out with the others today, all 5 are fine (or seem to be - see I'm paranoid now LOL!)
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Well we call it cast on their backs, on their backs or just cast down here.....old ewes are drafts......
There really should be a book! I'm not that far from you, and to me a draft ewe is one brought down from the hills for a few more years on easier grazing ;D
I'm sure it is a special secret language that changes with the weather ;)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D Yep local speak is very funny!!! I have always known those who are going to kebabland as culls, those who are getting sold on as still able to breed but aged as drafts, fulls, brokes, etc depending on exactly where they are coming from!!!! A book on local terminology would indeed be a hilarious if informative publication....I remember some folks a few years back listening to a few of us deep in discussion over sheep asking why we were discussing pigs......I will leave that one to your imagination ::) ;D
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A sheep stuck on it's back hereabouts is rigg-welted or just rigged (hence the name of the Jennings beer, the strength of which causes similar symptoms in humans ;))
Round here, a draft ewe is one which is being sold from the hill to a lower farm - she will have several years breeding left in her but not on the top of the fell anymore. As cast ewe is one you sell to the mart at the end of her useful life, a cull ewe is one you don't even do that with but send to the hunt kennel.
As for why do they drop dead. Apart from the fact that they can ( ::)) coccidia, clostridia, nematodirus, listeria........
I've just come home to find my 'top' cockerel lying dead in the byre, keeled over this afternoon apparently and not a mark on him :-\ He was definitely 'cock of the walk' so now there'll be some fighting in the chookyard!
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I've just come home to find my 'top' cockerel lying dead in the byre, keeled over this afternoon apparently and not a mark on him :-\ He was definitely 'cock of the walk' so now there'll be some fighting in the chookyard!
Oh no! jaykay! I'm so sorry :-* :bouquet:
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A sheep stuck on it's back hereabouts is rigg-welted or just rigged (hence the name of the Jennings beer, the strength of which causes similar symptoms in humans ;))
Round here, a draft ewe is one which is being sold from the hill to a lower farm - she will have several years breeding left in her but not on the top of the fell anymore. As cast ewe is one you sell to the mart at the end of her useful life, a cull ewe is one you don't even do that with but send to the hunt kennel.
I'm just a little further north, but not quite so upland. Draft is the same. Cull and cast are more or less interchangeable, both likely to go to the mart, but cull definitely has the connotation she'll not be breeding again. Someone else mentioned 'fulls and brokes', which I read as full-mouthed and broken-mouthed; we have 'sound above and below', 'sound below only' and 'not warranted'. Then there's cast ewes versus feeding ewes (former ready to butch, latter need feeding up.)
As to being on their backs, I know the term 'cast' as being down, usually a horse cast in its box, but that's from 'dahn sahth'. Up here, a ewe on her back is 'kessin''. And yes, a slope can help her right herself - but if she can find a ridge, a molehill, or anything to wedge herself against or in, she'll do it. ::) They're most likely to 'kess' when full of lambs and / or when fully fleeced and itchy with the heat of it.
And as I've quoted before, "A sheep's only got 2 hobbies. What it can eat and what it can die of." (Mind, that was Leicesters being farmed in Exmoor, so they probably did drop dead a lot! ::))
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I've just come home to find my 'top' cockerel lying dead in the byre, keeled over this afternoon apparently and not a mark on him He was definitely 'cock of the walk' so now there'll be some fighting in the chookyard!
Oh no! jaykay! I'm so sorry
Thank you :-* Bit of a mystery. He was 2 1/2 years old and definitely the boss - if it had been one of the lower ranking cockerels I might have understood - perhaps it's stressful being at the top! Fortunately, I have three of his sons still (good job I was less efficient at putting them in the pot) so I can pick the best one to replace him. Got one of the Buff girls indoors feeling sorry for herself too :-\
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daaaaan saaafff here its cast on its back, draft older ewe unwanted sold on/ bought in, and cull ewe to the abatoir :D
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When I lived in Yorkshire and then here in the Shetlands an on its back sheep is cast. But have heard it for old ewes as well ::) You should here the cattle terms, they are confusing.
Sorry about your cockerel , that happened to me with my stonking Indian Game cockerel. He was fine during the day and then dead at locking up time. I have two more now( one just in case) as I was told the finer bred cockerels can die suddenly.
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Our first cochin cockerel dropped dead - possible heart attack because he was a big bird trying to service lots of ladies!
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hi plumseverywhere,
one of the main reasons that people say sheep "drop dead" for no reason is that a range of the diseases they can catch can present mainly as a sudden onset collapse and quick spread of infection and/or sudden death wih no obvious signs beforehand. A contributing factor is that in some cases these diseases can cause several sudden deaths or collapses in a group within a short space of time, which is tragic and very dramatic to behold.
Classic examples include clostridial (bacterial diseases) in unvaccinated sheep (the bacteria produces a toxin/poison that kills the sheep very shortly after infection) - these are found in the soil.
"Pasteurellosis", a group of bacteria that cause a fast spreading septicaemia ("blood poisoning") or pneumonia in sheep, especially seen in spates of sudden deaths after moving or bad weather
Fluke - Cows tend to show signs of having this parasite, whereas I have seen countless sheep, some in great body condition, that have been put on contaminated pasture and eaten loads of the baby parasites and ended up with a totally trashed liver and subsequent death within an alarmingly short space of time.
And- in the case of a single or a couple of deaths within a short space of time after moving to lovely lush pasture such as clover - sometimes the diet change causes gas to build up in the stomach and rotate the entire digestive system, cutting off its blood supply and causing death.
There are other causes with similar presentation too!
The innards of a sheep= complicated things! Hope this helps. There are post-mortem pathology labs around the country which are subsidised by the government and can do top-quality post-mortem investigations to try to find the cause of death for a very reasonable cost similar to a veterinary visit- most vets, when asked, can arrange for this if appropriate as the labs work alongside the vets to help and provide advice, and not in competition with them.
Examples include the government subsidised SAC in scotland, and the AHVLA in england.
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Hello Podanmoo - thank you so much for your reply! lots of really useful information :) so far only one isolated death (touch wood) but it did throw me a bit last week when it happened :-\
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Sorry about your ewe. What do you do with a dead beast? When I was growing up there was a company called Dundas which used to come and pick up dead beasts. They would be left at the bottom of the back drive until Dundas deigned to come and lift them, and were invariably maggoty after a few days, much to our childish delight. Revolting. Haven't had any dead beasts to dispose of, however had to give up on the physiotherapy of a wonky chick and dispose of it an hour ago. Well, my visiting friend was given the deed to do, in exchange for wine. Bless him.
Must go and put the pookies to bed. I think I might have my first broody. Will report back, because I know you're all on tenterhooks...... whatever they may be. :)
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She was collected by a lovely local company who are always very understanding to me when I get soppy about my goats :D this time though things went a bit pearshaped (see my post in the coffee lounge about collection services from about 4 days ago...) and I had nightmares.
my pookies are still off school till monday and I haven't a chance of getting them anywhere near bed yet as they are hyper (ick) much to mine and Tony's disgust having been up since daft o clock due to the wind (outside wind Mrs Dizzycow before you say anything ;) )
sorry to hear about splayed legged chick, did you do the elastoplast trick with it?
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Nope, it was too wonky for treating. We kept it in a very small tupperware box in a standing position all day, which has worked in the past, but it wasn't going to improve so I ran away and.... the rest is history.
The wind has been appalling. Lots of damage here. What other kind of wind is there, Plums? Really. Tsk.
Will check out your other post, got to be prepared for these things. I'm hoping for births (sheep!) not deaths. Fingerst crossed. :)
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No problem!
Thankfully the great thing about smallholdings is small amounts of animals + buying in animals from a limited number of sources + lots of individual attention per animal + less stress due to not being managed in massive groups usually means that anything like a "spate" of problems is much less likely in a small holding. The legend of the sheep that want to die therefore originated much more in the larger flocks and farms and is not as often seen in the smaller groups, since it is the larger groups that are much more likely to get the conditions that gave rise to the saying. Well managed small holdings with a smaller stocking density seem more often just to have the one sad incident like yourself, so I wish your sheepies the best of health for 2012!
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oh dear poor wonky chook Dizzycow. sounds like you tried all you could and did the kindest thing though.
Podanmoo - numbers are small here, thank goodness. the sheep are part of a co-operative so I an kind of the daily checker as they are on my land. when one dies I automatically feel guilty even though I'm not responsible for their worming, vaccinating and health as such (although I obviously have a duty of care which I take incredibly seriously and these lambs are seriously well loved by me and the children!) thank you for your good wishes and advice!
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our neighbours had a ewe that was always prone to getting stuck - almost daily. i thought maybe it was conformation or too fat, cos she was the only one who got stuck.